Monsey, NY +Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken as Kosher+

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    Monsey, NY Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken 5 as Kosher 09/05/06

    Monsey, NY – Shevach Meats who rented some space inside Hatzlacha grocery store in Monsey, NY was caught selling nonkosher (treifa) chicken as Kosher from Kiryas Yoel.

    His, and the hashgacha’s house of cards came falling down in the middle of last week, when one of the owners of the grocery was told by one worker of Kiryat Joel meat slaughterhouse offhand, that the butcher had not recieved a shipment of chicken from them in 3 weeks. But the owners realized that they had been selling Kiryas Joel chicken the entire time, so they got scared and called their hashgacha.

    The Mashgichim broke into the butcher’s cooler at night and found 19 cases of unmarked chicken, they tasted the skin and it did not taste salty at all. Also did they found that the kidneys were still intact, which on kosher chicken shouldn’t be, since it’s removed before salting.
    At that time they called in the butcher who insisted it was Empire chicken. They checked with an Empire Mashgiach who lives in Monsey who told them that it isn’t their kosher chicken.

    He was immediately ejected from Hatzlacha, as the investigation continued, more came out and it was discovered that for at least 6 months he had been selling twice as much meat retail as he had bought from known Shechita houses, not even counting what he had sold wholesale to halls, yeshivas etc.
    Furthermore, some people had noticed for months that the chicken was less salty than usual, when they asked the butcher about it, he told them that they are using a new low sodium salt in the kashering process, which was false, and that may also extend to meat too.

    H’Rav Weissmandel put out a letter advising everyone to kasher all their keilim.

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    1077 COMMENTS

    1. Rav Weissmandel put out a letter advising everyone to kasher all their keilim, although he was meikil to allow hagala of cermaic and plastic even though that’s only a minority opinion because there’s some safek involved.

      Many community rabbanim are taking the same stance, although some are being more meikel to various degrees. M’doraisa the keilim don’t need tevila since they are eino ben yomo, so it should be muttar to eat in someone else’s home even if they follow a more lenient psak here than you would like.

    2. There is no excuse for the butcher to do what he did. How does someone coe to do something like this.

      As Frum Jews, it is our obligation to have a Kav Zchus, and I tried hard finding one.

      A Kav Zchus, in this case would be to figure out, HOW on G-D’s earth is it possible for someone to be machshil es harabim like this.

      Some Questions.
      What was going through his head?
      What kind of desoerate situation was he in?
      How could he look at himself in the mirror?
      did he eat it himself as well?
      what is the hashgocho saying?
      Who gave the hashgocho?
      why didnt the mashgiach know what was going on?

      There must be messups on many levels for such a situation to take place, how did they pull it off?

    3. Rav Breslauer (a lutvak) gave the hechsher. He was stil behind him thursday night. Now it turns out that it was a very weak hechsher, and that he ignored many warnings. (he is a very ehrlicher yid, but a hechsher is a specialty.)

      It turns out that such katering halls as Yeshivah Spring Valley, at times used to take meat from there, as they also used that hechsher. Also Glaubers used to run in and take a few packages when he was short.

      there are few people in monsey who were not nichshel. R”L!

    4. yiddish mama
      R’ breslauer (a yeki) and very choshov one has a very srong hechsher is considdered one of the most respected hechsheirim in monsey
      you have an agenda that you have tried to push on other topics dont push your lies on everyone else as facts
      instead of instantaneously putting out an opinion (like burn the sheitels first then ask whether or not their indian (and if its a problem)

    5. As Rav Weissmandel said

      if they found in the fridge on that night 18 cases of treif chicken and the Butcher ( Moshe Finkle sr”y ) was slipping calmly it is a very strong sign that it has not been the first time he did it

      and that also means that he did not have to worry that the Rabbi will make a visit ( if he ever did )

    6. as per a former worker in Yeshiva Spring Valley kitchen

      Rabbi B.
      Never vested that kitchen and even when he was their
      on a simcha could not convince him to come in to the kitchen
      and see what goes on

      so could someone post y you believe his Hacsher is good ?

    7. to Anon 11:24

      To say only who bought kJ or Vineland meat has to kasher, doesn’t make any sense, you are talking about someone being “machshil As Horabim” for months, so if the butcher was a butcher and the hechsher wasn’t reliable, how can you trust his other chicken or his beef???? And specially when the butcher is not cooperating you don’t even know for how long this goes on! That is why Harav Weissmandel said, “everybody” who bought even once any kind meat has to Kasher their “Keilim”, also I spoke to someone who used to work as a cashier at Hatzolcha Grocery, and he told me that as of almost a year ago customers complaint to him that the meat were mislabeled, having a stamp from one Shchita and a computer label with a different shchita!!! so who knows for how long this goes on??? The bottom line is if someone doesn’t have a “Cheskas Kashras” then you can’t trust him with anything!!!
      Peaple just got sick about it!!
      Your talking about someone who when a customer asked for a case of KJ meat, they delivered to him a case Treifa chicken!! It’s a terrible terrible situation!!

    8. If he had so much of treifa chicken in stock, not beeing afraid that the mashgiach will pop in and close off his place, as they did when the Grocery owners broke into there, that raises alot of questions….

    9. 11:24 is me and the 2 rabbonim that i heard from both said that bottoms from vineland and kj on tues. and wed. are the only ones that have problems.
      to say that rav breslauer never checks anything is a reckless lie

    10. PEOPLE WERE ONLY RELYING ON THE HECHSHER NOT FOR THE SHCHITA ITSELF, JUST ONLY THAT WHEN SOMEONE ASKES FOR KJ MEAT OR ANY OTHER SHCHITA HE SHOULD GET WHAT HE ASKED FOR! THAT’S ALL THEY ASKED FROM THE BAAL MACHSHIR !HOW IN THE WORLD COULD HAVE THIS HAPPEN ???? THERE IS NO EXCUSES FOR SOMTHING LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!

    11. As someone who happens to be in the know, Hatzlocho Grocery tried kicking out Shevach Meat last month. Shevach took them to a din tora and Hatzlocho LOST. Its obvious that Hatzlocho has an agenda

    12. “hagala” means Kashering the utensils by immersing them in a large pot of boiling water.
      “eino ben yomo” means that the utensils had not been used (and in this case, made un-Kosher) within the past 24 hours.

    13. To anon 11:24

      You didn’t answer the questions
      If someone is cheating and he is not reliable, how can you say that he is reliable on other meats???
      Answer the question!!!!!!!

    14. to anon 1:15

      According to my information, Hatzlocha won the Din Torah and Shevach was to leave right after Sukkas, and was going to be taken over by continental meats
      Please check before you post

    15. To anon 11:24

      ONE OF MY FAMILY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE CHICKEN NOT BEING SALTY ENOUGH RIGHT AFTER PESACH, AND HE WAS TOLD THAT SAME STUPID ANSWER THAT THEY CHANGED TO LOW SODIUM SALT. THIS WAS MONTHS AGO!!! SO WHEN THE OWNER SAYS ITS FROM EMPIRE, NOT TELLING THE TRUTH FROM WERE IT CAME FROM, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW EXACTLY FOR HOW LONG THIS GOES ON, AND WHICH MEATS WERE INVOLVED,
      THE FACT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS, THAT THEY FOUND SOME 18 CASES OF “NON-KOSHER” MEAT!!!! FACT NUMBER TWO IS, THAT HE WAS SELLING DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF MEAT THEN HE BOUGHT FROM THE SHCHITA, AND THIS WAS NOT ONLY TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY!!! THIS IS FOR MONTHS!!!!!! SO BY SAYING ONLY 1 OR 2 SHCHITA’S HAD A PROBLEM, AND ONLY FOR THE LAST 2 DAYS IS ONLY TO HIDE THE TERIBILLE FACT WHAT WAS GOING ON!!!

    16. As someone who happens to be in the know, Hatzlocho Grocery tried kicking out Shevach Meat last month. Shevach took them to a din tora and Hatzlocho LOST. Its obvious that Hatzlocho has an agenda

      TO ANON 1:15

      “Shevach took them to a din tora and Hatzlocho LOST”
      BESIDES THE FALSE INFO ABOUT THE DIN TORAH, WHAT KIND OF AGENDA IS IT, WHEN YOU FOUND 18 CASES OF UNLABELD & UNSALTED TRIFA MEAT IN SOMEONES FREEZER???
      RABBI BRASLOUER HIM SELF SHUT DOWN THE BUTCHER AFTER HE DISCUVERD WHAT’S GOING ON
      WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO COVER UP HERE?

    17. IT WAS HARAV WEINBERGRE WHO WROTE THE PSAK
      AS YOU CAN SEE
      AND HE SAID THAT “ANYONE WHO BOUGHT MEAT, FROM ANY KIND OR BRAND, FROM SHEVACH MEAT STORE, HAS TO KASHER ALL THERE MEAT DISHES KAHALOCHA”

    18. I shop there on a steady basis and I am very close to the owners of both Hatzlocho and Shevach, the mashgiach has NOT been there for at least 2 to 3 months, and when the problem arose it was NOT Breslauer who was there, he came later after he was called down and his Mashgiach did not even come to the meeting of the rabbonim after he was called down he said that he was out of town and was later found at a wedding in Ateres Charna talking to the owner of Shevach but he did not have time for the rabbonim, now you go and figure out for youself if this a good hechsher, Rabbi Breslaur is a very chushiva yid but that does not mean that his hecsher is good

    19. to 1:40 and ALL CAPS
      the title of this topic is treif chicken the only sheila is chicken as for a detailed answer as toy why!!! ask a rav
      fact #1 it was chicken not meat that they found
      fact #2 we do not know that he was selling twice the meat that he ordered from shechita nowhere noone has said meat its only chicken
      to say robbonim have ostrich syndrome and are hiding what went on is your perogative however if they say it was bottoms from 2 days only then I will rely on their daas torah and knowledge of true “facts”

    20. Nebach on all of us!!! Very important: Only those people that know the facts 100% should post; other posters are stam geploidert, and confuse others. I can’t post any opinion; I don’t know what happened 100%.

      I must say, however, that I am shocked, because I know the butcher; he was always considered an ehrlicher yid; so something here must have happened; who knows? Signed, Shocked, Brokenhearted, and Stunned!

    21. Anonymous said…
      Rabbi Breslaur is a very chushiva yid but that does not mean that his hecsher is good
      ___________________________________

      Anonymous said…
      Yiddishe Mama; guard your tongue. Rav Breslauer is no small man.
      ___________________________________

      How does one become a chushiver yid?

      If someone who is considered choshuv takes on the achrayos to give a hechsher and you don’t do your job properly and people are
      eating treifos are you still “a big man”? “a chushiver yid”?

      If a rebbe is found molesting a kid, is he still a chushiver rebbe?

    22. To all “Melamdai Zechus”, Limud Zechus is one thing, but whoever bought anything from this butcher need to do Tshuvah! eating Nevailah B’Shogeg is something serious!

    23. BEING SOMEONE WHO IS INVOLVED LET ME CLARIFY SOME THINGS 1ST OF ALL SHEVACH WON THE DIN TORAH HATZLOCHA WANTED HIM OUT IN 30 DAYS FROM JUNE HE WAS ALLOWED TO STAY UNTIL JANUARY NOW THE OWNER OF SHEVACH STILL CLAIMS THAT HE HAS ONLY ORDERED FROM KJ AND HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW THE TREIFE CHICKEN GOT INTO HIS STOCK UNLESS SOMEONE WHO IS OUT TO GET HIM PLANTED IT THERE I WONDER WHO ?!?!?!?!

    24. to Anan 2:55 PM
      the problem isn’t only for those who bought there, They used to sell wholesale for halls, Catarers, Yeshivahs etc. So there might be a huge amount of people around (even out of towners) who ATE from his Nevailah!!!

    25. Anan 2:56 PM
      I would’ve claimed the same if someone catches me doing what he did.

      1) If KJ didn’t sold him anything for the past 3 weeks, then from where did he got the KJ chickens???
      2) I would’ve noticed if my stock gets increased by 18 cases or so…

    26. To 2:31

      If he had “Triefa” chicken in his place, than anything else that’s sold there is in question, don’t you understand it? And that why other rabbonim said that if you bought anything from that store you have to kasher all your keilim!!

    27. eight years ago at a certain wedding in the atrium,
      a delicacy wasn’t served’because a certain mashgiach from lakewood would’nt let them use it .
      reason , this butcher couldn’t verify were he got it from.
      his rav hamachshir backed him up.
      since then anything from this rav hamichshir was not relied on, by this mashgiach from lakewood.
      which ruled out
      l’chaim,
      yeshiva of spring valley.
      we owe this mashgiach an apology .

    28. TO ANON AT 317 WHAT URE SAYING THAT KJ DID NOT DELIVER FOR 3 WEEKS IS A LIE FOR I SAW A INVOICE FROM KJ FOR THAT TIME PERIOD AND NUMBER 2 USE URE BRAINS THEY COULD SUBSITUTE THE TREIFE ONES WITH THE KOSHER ONE LETS NOT FORGET THE OWNERS OF HATZLOCHO HAVE A KEY TO FREEZER OR THEY COULDVE PAID OFF THE DELIVERY GUY WHO IS GOY TO SWITCH IT AROUND

    29. Anan 3:44 PM
      1) The Invoices you saw (if you say them…) was probebly his overdue balance which trigerred KJ not to sell him anymore!
      2) If like you say, When peaple complained lately about the taste of the chickens, what was his answer then?!

    30. To all those that would like to say that Hatzlach
      has an agenda here and so on

      Do you thing that anyone with a business would
      do something like this that could kill his business for ever ?
      with all the costs / loss of profit that they will have now

    31. This problem with Shevach aka Moish Finkel was discovered some 8 years ago by Yudel Shain from Lakewood.
      Therefore the Ultimate caterers (shlomie Leimzeider) didn’t use anything from Moish Finkel (Shain didn’t allow him).

      Ultimate is one of the only cateres that don’t have to kasher in the monsey area.

      Rabbis Breslauer / Ulman were told of the problem 8 years ago & just don’t have what it takes for these kashrus problems, so it was shoved under the carpet.

    32. The fact remains that Rav Breslauer who is the “BAAL MACHSER” of this store didn’t catch this guy tells me that he isn’t competent in Kashrus supervision, you are talking of millions of dollars of China dishes, Kitchens, Utensils, Pesach Kitchens, etc, etc, of Damage’s,

    33. TO anon 2:56

      1)The only thing that Shevach won was “Time”, but in the end he had to leave.
      2) How come he took over an unlabeled chicken delivery”???, How come he didn’t call his Mashgioch that someone delivered him chicken without proper sealing ?? I spoke to someone who saw the cases it had no label or any wording what so ever! This would have alarmed anyone not even in the chicken business!
      Being in the line for so many years, he should realize that?
      3) And for last, I just spoke to someone who ordered a case KJ chicken from him on Thursday, Aug. 24 06, and the owner (not mention his name) was on the phone and said That he doesn’t have Today any cases of KJ meat in stock. Call me next week I’ll have for you how much you need, the following Tuesday Aug.29 ‘06 he called him to check on the KJ meat? owner was on the phone again and said, I JUST GOT IN TODAY CASES CHICKEN FROM KJ !, Is it fresh from today?? and M.F. says YES!!!! Maybe you deliver me one, and the owner says come in and pay for it first. He went in and paid for it, and…….. they delivered him “So Called KJ Meat” when in fact KJ didnt deliver him for weeks! Later the man went into Hatzlocha and saw the letter from Harav Breslouer, and rabbonim in the store, he ran home and bought one chicken from that case and showed it to the dayanim, and the dayen looked on him “well this is the same like what we had just discovered in the boxes, its just Treifa!
      To finish up, The owner was lying and selling knowingly to people unlabeled this was a crime against all Jewish people, done willingly and there are no excuses
      And let me tell you, that there a lot of surprises coming yet, the investigation is far from over!!

    34. The New York State Attorney General’s office and other State agencies are involved the treif chickens have been impounded by them and was sent out to their labs to test the origin of the chicken’s, there are methods of testing the chickens like checking what kind of Food the chickens had etc, they have the ability to get the info, so let’s wait to see what they will come up with,

    35. is it kosher
      do you really expect anyone to believe you that hes been doing this for 8 years
      if rabbi shain knew why didnt he let the public know
      shevach was not in hatzlochah grocery for 8 years

    36. To Anon 4:41

      Just to let you know Shevach is already in Hatzlocha for almost 13 years
      And regarding your second question
      Rabbi Shain only got some meat from Shevach that he had question on it, and did not let the caterer use it, and Rabbi Shain also called the Harav Hamachshir to check out how this incident could have happen, but according to thew harav amachshir the problem was solved then
      But yes! There was a problem 8 years ago already!

    37. It is indeed about 8 years.
      Rabbi Breslauer / Ulman / Hatzlocha were told about this at that time.
      They said Rabbi Breslauer is a very straight erliche yid “you can rely on him”

      The Chofetz Chaim says “Tomim Ti’hieh” is not with people.

      In kashrus you must have siya’teh di’shmaiyah & know when something doesn’t smell right.

      Kinor Dovid restaurant in Monsey that closed up (“for a lack of business-only”)was under Rabbi Weismandel & he alledgedly bought non-kosher chickens from Nat-Kagan in Woodridge. Rabbi Weismandel didn’t catch him, but he closed up himself.

    38. I know very little about what’s actually going on with the butcher store, but I see what’s going on on this blog and it is, for teh most part, irresponsible, stupid, and sick.

      For all those with vast opinions, small brains and even small knowledge of halachah: There are halachos that determine
      “neemonus” — that means credibilty. That doesn’t mean that no michshol can ever happen; it means that there are people and things that the Torah allows — maybe even expects — us to assume are reliable. Sometimes things happen that make a person or item lose their chezkas Kashrus or neemanusm that does not mean that you were retroactively no allowed to do something (though it might need teshuvah, but likely not if it was a halachic “oness”). See Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 1, I believe Siman nun-gimmel.

      Clearly the butcher here has lost his Chezkas kashrus. See the lengthy Tehshuvas Divrei Chaim — I think se’if zayin, in Yoreh Deah.

      There are halachos of telling and believing Lashon Hara. Ther are many things that one may only beleive if they are proven in Beis din.

      Yudel Shain has for decades thrown grenades at people and hashgachos with reckless abandon, and with a complete disregard for any of the Yoreh Deiah or Choshen Misphat halchos involved. To cite him as evidence or as an accusation is ridiculous.

      There is almost no hashgachah that has not had a michshol. SO to tar and feather a Talmid Chochom and Yosrei Hashem Mei’rabbim who doubtless gave his hashgachah al pi halachah is idiotic.

      Yiddishe Mamma: Without naming any “types,” last year’s Flatbush scandal was brought about by “Rabbonim” who vouched for a person who had lost his chezkas Kashrus. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

      The rest of the posters would do better to crack a sefer — even the women would be better off learning that spewing off or reading this ignorance.

    39. So how are we buying take out food from stores without any hechser whatsoever? If we can’t even rely on stores with a hechser. Take Madanei Geulah in the heart of Yerushalayim (Rechov Malchei Yisroel). Hundreds of people flock there to buy food without any hechser (ask them youself).

      There are also many other stores so be careful next time before you eat.

    40. ,I Cant understand what ure prob. is all hatzloch had to do was switch around the chicken and for the question why would they kill their buisness the same way u have an answer for shevach use the same answer for hatzloch

    41. To Anon 5:03

      If you know very little what’s going on then just get off the blog, DON’T COMMENT JUST READ
      We are the ones who were fed nveiles itriefas who knows for I long!!!
      And I’m not saying anything against any rav or talmid chochem, but you in the same time that you want us to respect, and teaching us about Loshon Horah, you bust Rabbi shain for no good reason, YES rabbi Shain was right 8 years ago, the only thing that he did when he questioned some meat was, not letting the caterer use it.
      He didn’t post anything about anybody!
      Come on

    42. To Anon 5:15

      What do you mean you don’t think twice about labeling
      What about “Boser Shnisalom Min Heiyin”
      That’s why this could have happened, when you don’t check for labeling
      And again this was so obvious that even a kid would have recognized it.

    43. to make things clear “rabbi” breslauer is a lot to blame and he lost his chaskaz kashrus regarding giving hashgochas and this has noting to do with kovod hatorah because this is chilol hashem as the rambam says using the torah for own purposes is what the misnea in pirkei avos says someone should not do and “rabbi” bres.took his litvishe torah to put on hecshirim on restaurants without any idea of what is going on he not even wanted to go in to see what is being done there and from now on everybody should know that ware ever he gives a hecsher is treif and when will see that he cares for kovod shmayim we will care for him if it is still possible to care for someone how because of his negligence a whole chareidiseh community got nichshel with treifos

    44. there is no such thing as “litfish torah”
      2 men once went to the satmer rov that they were going to go and argue with r’moshe he told them before they go to make sure they know shas and poskim if they want to “argue” with rav moshe because he knows it

    45. no litvishe torah yes litvishe torah a hecsher on treifene fleish he gave and he still did not took off his hechsher from other places so autmaticly he is a ksil shone beeivaltoi

    46. He got his chicken from KJ that doesn’t mean that KJ is responsible for the Kashrus of the establishment its the baal Machshir’s and his Mashgiach’s job to check it out and make sure that everything is right

    47. Its time for paople to realize that when they go into a grocery store buying a container chochlates or candies packed in the grocery, that they are relying on the Baal Machshir of the Grocery (or on the owner if there is no Baal Machshir) and not just on the Ball Machshir of the Brand!!!

    48. is this tru עס קורסירן קלאנגען אז דער דיסטריביוטער גרשי שלעזינגער פון Nassau Provisions האט געהאט א יד אין די מעשה i dont noe if dise is true but if yes its an erthqauke

    49. 6:17 it’s BS they never sold any chickens there, they are not in the fresh chicken business at all they sell only deli pack meat like the Meal Mart or Empire deli slices

    50. Maadanei Geulah has an Eida Chareidis Hechsher today. True that when he was partner at Maadan Hamuchan they didn’t have a hechsher. They too now have Eida Chareidis.
      The Shinve Rav wouldn’t eat meat with a hechsher because it is Bosor Shehora Boi Chochom.
      A store shouldn’t need a hechsher even if it has one. If it needs one then it is doubtful it helps. If you wouldn’t eat in his house would you eat in the store?

    51. There is all sort’s of rumor’s flying around on the street the fact remains that shevach bought his chickens from more then 8 supplier’s and one of the reasons is that in the past 6 months he had financial difficulties and he bounced checks left and right and that’s why he was doing crazy things, as far as the chickens is concerned the NYS agencies involved are making an investigation on the chickens and they are going to report their findings soon.

    52. 6:46pm When this thing came out the Investigative Rabbanim who included such noted names as Rabbi Spiegel who is one of the leading experts on kosher poultry contacted every single supplier, Distributor, etc, that they found any paper trail in the office and all these suppliers immeadiatly faxed over a full listing of all their Invoices and reports of what they sold to Shevach, but the Treif boxes there was no Invoices or record for it, until he admitted that he bought it by picking it up at a small Porto Rican poultry store in spring Valley where he paid less then .60 cents per pound because nobody from the kosher suppliers wanted to sell him because he owed everybody money.

    53. I do not live in Monsey, but I buy KJ chicken. Could any of this treife chicken been sent to other communities, if it is found that KJ labels were appearing on the packages of treife chicken going out of Monsey? Was the treife chicken packaged and labeled in the store in question? It’s so hard to follow the info being posted, and not knowing what is emes and what is LH.

      No accusations, just concern for yidden in BP or FB?

    54. I was in Monsey for the summer and did shop at Hatzlocha. My stomach is in a knot and I feel sick and nauseous.

      R’ Breslauer is a tremendous talmid chochom and I really can’t understand how all this happened.

      However, what really bothers me and is on my conscious is this: it says that if a person is very “upgehiten” (stringent) with a particular mitzvah, they are not nichshol in that.

      So the question remains on myself – am I too lax in general about hechsherim, kashrus….? Hashem has a cheshbon for every person. We are lucky that Yom Kippur is coming up and when we will fast we could hopefully atone for this.

      P.S. Shamos, it would be very helpful if spell and grammar check were made available to all commenters before they post. Some of these comments are impossible to comprehend.

    55. I am confused. The butcher in question works for Shevach or Hatzlacha? If the latter, then how is he to have known that Shevach sold Hatzlacha treif? Or am I missing something?

    56. to Neshoma

      THe problem was not with KJ meat Chas Vsholem, the problem was his computer that generated the labels for shevach, and whatever was typed on the key board was printed on the package.

    57. It’s sad to say that Monsey in general has very SHVACHE hachsherim. For instance Rockland Kosher Supermarket has a hecsher on its meat department from R’ Meshulem Poletcheck who doesn’t even live in Monsey and is not here MOST of the time!!! Sadly, the rabbunum in power in Monsey care very little about kashrus and more about their Koved!

    58. it’s hard to read this and not get involved.
      on the other hand ‘ loshon hara is asuur.
      on gedolin/rabanim its mutter as the c.i.explains.
      if its an expert that people rely on and u now otherwise ,than lo saamod al dam reiacha ,makes it obligatory that u warn people.
      the people have a responsibility, not to believe only to suspect.
      my question to myself is ,am i lshem shamayim?.
      therefore i invite u’all into my decision.
      after careful reading of these posts and others,after talking to people in candor that have said things in private ,that they can’t say publicly,
      i ‘m resolving tofind out how to get in touch with yehuda shain,and let him guide me thru this maze we call kashrus.
      every one that i spoke to told me he is an alarmist, that has been proven to be correct more often than they would like to admit.
      at least i will have done my part

    59. I’m anon from 5:03

      Just to clarify: I did not at all mean to defend in any way the actions of the butcher.

      If the hashgachah did whatever it had to to satisfy the halachic requirements, they did nothing wrong either. The reality is that we live by D’var Hashem, zu halachah, not by our kishka — that we eat or that produces the shtuyos people are posting.

      Like I said, almost every other hashgachah had michsholim, ever the “holiest” — which one you thing that might be. The factor is, was the problem caused by their ignoring their halachaically-determined responsibility or not.

      When a hashgachah is given to oil and no one looks into the earlier contents of tankers that transport it, there was no basis in halachah for allowing the Hashgachah.

      And when Yudel Shain bashmutzes people left and right, contrives facts and fabricates stories, he has no neemanus. By the way, there are halachos that govern “eid echad b’hakchashah” and which establish teh laws of gevias eidus. There are even halachos (believe it or not) that determine that not everything that sounds problematic actually is… Yudel Shain ignores all those (or let’s be melamed zechus that he never learned any of them).

      To clarify: I never had any personal dealings Shain nor do I care to. But I’ver seen public accusations that I know to be false… I saw his holier-than-thou certification on a non-Jewish Chinese resteraunt…so let no one turn this menuval into a hero so fast (by the way, his lies age quickly, on his website he claimed to have spoken to Rav Breslauer four years ago, now he claims eight…. do I hear sixty-five?

    60. Tonight at 9:00 there will be a shier regarding the halacho on Emes Lane From Rabbi Wosner
      And on Tuesday and Wednesday there will be “kashering keilim” at 12 Maple terrace from 10:00AM to 10:00PM

    61. I have a few questions:

      1. If Finkel was doing this for a while, why suddenly did people complain about the chicken and not earlier.

      2. Why did they complain to Hatzlacha when they know the buthcer is Finkel.

      3. When they broke into the refigerador was the mashgiach of the place present.

      4. Did Finkel claim that he was delivered these chickens by KJ or did he claim they were never delivered, someone just placed them there, or does he claim that he got it elswhere.

      5. Why is there no issue with the meat, if he is now nechshad for the chicken, there is a greater motivation to bring in treif meat, more money to be made.

    62. to:
      8:18 PM

      And when Yudel Shain … contrives facts and fabricates stories, he has no neemanus.

      can u back this up?
      the atrium caterer backs him up ,about this particuliar butcher.
      look at the price some people paid.

      no one can come up withh one fabricated story.
      if u know one post it here.

    63. Anon 8:26pm so far the from the Investigations the beef is accounted for I.e. It matches Invoices with what was sold by the computer system from Hatzluche and other methods that were checked, but the chickens so far don’t jive at all.

    64. THE MEETING BETWEEN ALL RABONIM IN MONSEY CHASIDISH AND LITVISH IS OVER THERE WILL BE LETTERS TOMORROW MORN. NOW JUST TO GIVE U A BRIEF GLIMPSE AS TO WHAT HAPPENED “THERE WAS NEVER ANY TRIEFE MEAT SOLD FROM HATZLOCHA” THE REST OF THE DETAILS WILL BE RELEASED TOMORROW

    65. to 9:18
      the stuff that was sold to caterers yeshivas etc don’t show up on that i.e. example .
      make sure your investigaion is extensive ,covers all angles. based on what u wrote it’s alredy full of holes.
      you matching invoices against store recordc.

    66. Hey 8:18
      You feel like a fool, ’cause Yudel Shain happens to be very careful with his accusations & conclussions. By the way in the 35 years that he’s doing it he was always a few years ahead of everyone else & he was never wrong “yet”.

    67. to; 9:59 PM

      i hope u r wrong.
      because that means some rabanim
      (at least one) that was at that metting in monsey today are/is not reliable as a rav hamichsir and as a person.
      ys claims that he lies if it will serve his need.

    68. The following kashrus alert is from Congregation Bes Tefilla.

      on September 3, 2006.
      Congregation Bes Tefilla has removed its kashrus certification from Shevach Quality Meats, Spring Valley, NY due to kashrus violations.
      There is an on-going investigation. Chicken legs from August 29 and August 30, 2006 that were labeled Kiryas Yovel or Vineland should not be used and any keilim used with them should be kashered.

    69. to:10:23 PM
      what the hell are u talking about?
      warning some of a danger is l.h.
      being an idiot is a mitzvah?
      is there alav in nveila /
      how about trife?
      how about horse meat?
      like the koitsker said,
      “if i am forced to sit near a fool in gan eden,
      i’ll still say nar blabt nar.”
      i don’t want to encourage l.h. or chas v’shalom even being involved in a machloke,
      but don’t take a mitzvah and pervert it.
      by the way do u know when chazal speak about aveirot that brought the destruction of the bet hamikdash
      the are referring to the aveirot that the leaders of the generation committed not the general population.
      sinat chinam
      kamtza bar kamtza,
      etc.
      i would love to continue but i have a meeting at the tuition committee.
      talk of leadership.

    70. To anon 8:18

      Besides your negative view on Rabbi Shain, can you clarify the points that you are trying to make???
      You don’t want to defend the actions of the butcher
      But what do you want?
      Get to point
      People complaint for weeks if not months about the meat that it is not salty, it is too bloody ETC
      Is this the “Dvar Hashem” that you mean??? if it is please explain ?

    71. I just came home from Shull in Monsey. There should be more updates tommorrow.

      There was a placard stating that there will be some droshes in Satmar tommorrow.

      I’m sure there is a reason from Shomayim why this happened here in Monsey. No you will not hear it tommorrow by the asifa of the rabbonim. The reason is that the leading rabbonim in Monsey are so corrupt and full of themseves (and no, I do not mean the baal hamachshir) which we don’t see to this degree anywhere else. The Monsey yidden like Shoitem follow these morons.

    72. Anyone heared of this story?

      There is this other story, that a goyisha worker who was fired from hatzlocha grocery meat department wanted to get even with the owners therefore he smuggled in treif chickens and packaged it with kosher stickers. only when cutomers complained that the chickens had a different taste because it was unsalted was there an investigation.

    73. I just saw a tzettil in Satmar where reb Shimon Katz (became dayan a few years ago by his father) is now advertising that only his meat is good.

      It said Medakdikim should be machmir to eat and buy only his meat.

    74. To Anan 11:11 PM
      If he was fired then how would he package the chicken?! he isn’t working there anymore, No?!
      And what about the cases chicken found overthere?! did he smuggle first in the cases, and then he smuggled himself in to print the labels and package it?!
      Get the facts first and then make the story!

    75. To the above Anony.

      You’re right about some rabbanim in Monsey. I wouldn’t trust some of them even not ruchnius. I would therefore not trust them with Ruchnius either.

      Here is what the Gemara says about it:

      “תניא רבי יוסי בן אלישע אומר: אם ראית דור שצרות רבות באות עליו, צא ובדוק בדייני ישראל , שכל פורענות שבאה לעולם לא באה אלא בשביל דייני ישראל, שנאמר: שמעו נא זאת ראשי בית יעקב וקציני בית ישראל המתעבים משפט ואת כל הישרה יעקשו…” (שבת קלט, ע”א)

    76. What am I trying to say? Let me try to keep Shain out of this for now (the moderator clearly chose to censor my post of details of one of his contivances)

      That there is a halachic threshhold for what a Rav Hamachshir is supposed to do. That threshold is not a guarantee against mich’sholim, it’s a guarantee against going to Gehinnom.

      People who relied upon an apparently erliche Rav Hamachshir are onsim. If he did whatever checking he had to al pi halachah, that’s all he needed to do.

      Hakadosh Baruch Hu runs the world, believe it or not. It’s our job to follow the Shulchan Aruch.

      That’s all not to say that we don’t need to employ pikchus, but even so a michshol can happen. But the Rav Hamachshir would not lose his neemanus or standing. It appears that the other Rabbanim have not lost their ragrd for the man at this time either.

      Many hashgachos have had “durchfallen,”and many of those I’m know of involved a complete disinterest in keeping halachah, not a case of being misled by the “amasla” of a person who the Torah told us had — at the time — a chezkas kashrus. The case here was far more halachically understandable than most other cases.

      Soo cool the “tar and feather the Rav” rhetoric and learn some Yoreh Dei’ah (Siman Aleph is a good place to start — eid echod b’hakchashah is not believed…)

      If you can’t understand that, ask your Rav to explain it to you.

    77. Rabbi Zimmerman’s shul is not on Calvert Dr. he left the shul a few years ago because of a fight and made a separate shul on the next street I forget the name.

      Or he is a Bal Tfilah in Rabbi Zimmerman’s shul or in the KAJ shul on Calvert Dr.

    78. how come the 20 rabonim of monsey are still looking for kal Breslouer’s opinion do thay want him to be macshil another few thousand yiden with not kashering properly and than eat for the rest of thier lives in treifene keilim.

      what is going on with this monsey ra bonim instaed of stoping this kal from what he is doing thay are letting him lead the maracha thay are putting the ganov for a shomer.

      with this corupption no wonder it happend in monsey.

    79. After doing much research & speaking to various Rabbonim I will try to inform all readers of the FACTS until this point.

      There is a grocery store in Monsey NY called Hatzlocha Grocery. They “sub-let” space to Shevach Butcher Store. Shevach buys wholesale chickens from Vineland and KJ (AKA Satmar) meats. Shevach then repackages the chickens and meats and writes [for example] “Shevach – Vineland” on the package. Hatzlocha Grocery carries the meats packaged by Shevach.

      Last week the owner of Hatzlocha Grocery made a family Simcha and in attendance was his brother-in-law who happens to be a manager at “K.J. Meats” (AKA SATMAR MEATS). His brother-in-law happened to ask him “where did you get these chickens from”? He answered “from my shelves”. The brother-in-law then asked him “how could Shevach be selling chickens if we (KJ Meats) stopped selling them product ?” The brother-in-law then said “he must have had old stock”.

      The owner of Hatzlocha also found out that Vineland had stopped selling him chickens as well.
      The owner of Hatzlocha went into the store the following morning and noticed that the shelves were freshly stocked. He approached the owner of Shevach & asked him “since Vineland & KJ Meats stopped selling you product, where are these chickens coming from?” The owner of Shevach answered that “I buy from some other distributors”.

      It was then verified that the owner was LYING and that he never purchased from those “other” distributors.
      The local Rabbonim were contacted, amongst them the Skverer Dayan who paskned that an immediate search of his refrigerators would be done.

      A search that was done that night turned up some shocking evidence: CASES OF NON-KOSHER CHICKENS!!

      Many of you might be wondering how that determination was made. There are a few reasons.
      #1-Kosher chickens are very yellow & these chickens were extremely pale.
      #2-Kosher chickens have feathers still on the skin at the time of purchase & these had none.
      #3-When a chicken is kashered all of the insides of the chicken are removed. These chickens were in possession of their kidneys still.
      #4-There was no trace of salt on the chickens.
      #5-No stamp or seal from any kosher butcher were on the boxes.

      After confronting the owner of Shevach Meats for an explanation, he admitted to the Rabonim this story: He claimed that those chickens that were found were sold to him by a truck driver of Nassau Distributors on the black market – but was reassured by the NON-JEWISH truck driver that the chickens were kosher; from a fire that Empire Chicken Company had recently had.

      This is where the story ENDS. All other stories that are going around are FALSE.

      There was a meeting which ended today at approximately 5:00 pm at which 20 Rabbonim from Monsey were in attendance. This included both Chassidih and Litvish Rabbonim. The purpose of the meeting was to issue a UNITED P’sak for the entire Monsey community. The P’sak will not be signed by the Rabbonim until Rabbi Breslauer reviews it.
      Unfortunately he is out of town and will be unable to see it until tomorrow morning.

      This is basically what the P’sak says: All chickens AND meats which were purchased on or before Tuesday and Wednesday (August 29th & 30th) cannot be used. Any Kailem (cooking utensils) in which chicken or meat which was purchased on those two days was cooked in must be Kashered! Anyone who cooked Chicken or meat which was purchased before those two days should consult their own Rov for a P’sak Halacha on what they should do.

      (The reason for consulting your own Rov as what one should do if chicken or meat which was purchased PRIOR to last Tuesday & Wednesday is based on a Machlokes between the Shach & the Taz as to when a person loses his “Chezkas Kashruth” in such a case.
      In addition, Hatzlocha Grocery is issuing a complete refund for all meat & chicken that is returned to the store no matter what the date.

      (In a related issue, a few people had been complaining that their chicken soups had been tasting bland for the past few weeks to which they were told “we are using low sodium”.)

    80. To the peace of trash above who speaks against a chushive rub Rabbi Breslauer burn in Hell!! Who are you?? Please start naming names of Monsey rabbanim who YOU THINK are better?

    81. Anon 11:46 states

      This is basically what the P’sak says: All chickens AND meats which were purchased on or before Tuesday and Wednesday (August 29th & 30th) cannot be used. Any Kailem (cooking utensils) in which chicken or meat which was purchased on those two days was cooked in must be Kashered! Anyone who cooked Chicken or meat which was purchased before those two days should consult their own Rov for a P’sak Halacha on what they should do.

      Sorry but unless I am very tired there is a contradiction in your paragraph. You first state “on and before” cannot be used and then you state that “before” one should consult a Rov.

    82. Please don’t categorize all rabbanim in Monsey in the same boat.
      Yes, there is some corruption among those who consider themselves of the elite here in Monsey (i.e. those who give drushes every Monday and Tuesday).
      Yet, there are some other very chushive rabbanim too.
      I would say that most hechsheirim in Monsey are very good.

      Just my opinion.

    83. I think it should be formed a new Vaad Harabonim of Monsey and follow all Hecsherim like once a month.

      And the same in all other areas to make sure that the hasguches are ok.

      What do you think of this ?

      They can put a Tax on all hechsherim to pay for this vaad or like being a member of the Vaad.

      After such a story we really need to do Tshuvas Ha`mishkol

    84. Please TO ALL OF YOU
      don’t mix up Micsholim (things that accidentally happen)
      by some / all hachshirim
      and THIS STORY that was a Pure negligence by who ever in charge
      not being their ( but took his monthly check )

    85. To 12:29

      You are 100 percent right they are rabonim with good hecshirim for example rabbi weissmandl who is a goen and boki in hecshirim and lhavdil breslouer who may be a big Talmud chacom but in kashrus he does not have a clue and was known that he never went to see what is being done under his supervision

    86. To anon 12:09pm

      YOUR QUOTE “After confronting the owner of Shevach Meats for an explanation, he admitted to the Rabonim this story: He claimed that those chickens that were found were sold to him by a truck driver on the black market – but was reassured by the NON-JEWISH truck driver that the chickens were kosher; from a fire that Empire Chicken Company had recently had”

      DO YOU BELEIVE THIS NON-SENSE? how can a butcher with so many years experience of serving the frummest market say that he bought off the truck on the BLACK MARKET isn’t the halacha BOSOR SH’NISALEM MIN HAEIEIN apply to a GOY especially if the boxes doesn’t have any labels or markings and the KIDNEYS are still intact? what does REASSURED that it is kosher mean for an experienced butcher who knows how kosher chickens look like and knows the halachas?

      MY CONCLUSION: this story about buying off a truck is a baloney story.

    87. there should be a website listing facts about all stores and their kashrus. no opinions but facts. does this store have a mashgiach temidi? what about the other store? we, the public, should demand that all butchers in town have a mashgiach temidi regardless of who the owner is. this type of thing is too important to let happen again.

    88. Again. what makes Rav Breslauer a chushiver yid? A job as a Rov? Looking serious all the time? Davening three times a day? Being machmir whenever possible?
      There are many people who are very choshuv but they are baaleibatim.
      Being a choshuver yid and a Rov are not the same.
      Rabbonus is a job. I think Beis Tefilo was his father’s shul and he inherited it. Now he is in his 70’s and he is a choshuver yid. Same thing will happen to all our fighting rebbes. When they will be old they will be considered “Fartzeitisher yidden”.
      This scandal would have continued if Mr. Finkel would have paid his bills to KJ and Rabbi Breslauer would not have had a clue.
      If a regular citizen lives his life in an honorable manner and late in life he does a fraud or kills someone. He will rightfully be remembered as as a thief or murderer. This is regardless if his first 70 years were lived as an upstanding citizen.
      If this happened due to the negligence of Breslauer/Ullman then they are not choshuver yidden. What does it take to be “ois” Choshuver yid? Rav Kook was a choshuver yid but Satmar says he is not because he was a Zionist.
      Rabbi YB Soloveichik was a choshuver yid but the yeshiva world does not think so.
      If this story is true then Rav Breslauer will go down in history as a corrupt/negligent Rav.
      If you google the history of kashrus in America. There were major fights and there were many “choshuver” rabbonim who were corrupt with kashrus. If they would be around today, they would be our gedolei hador. They were corrupt and sold their religion for money.

      http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/jo/tpersonality/rjj.html

      http://www.ameinu.net/frontier/jf_1-00_adler.html

    89. איך האב נישט ליעב איבערציגעבן קיין שלעכטע נייעס אבער איך האב נישט קיין ברירה

      ווילימסבורג האט אויך אן ערנסטען פראבלעם מיט די פלייש, די לעצטע פאר טעג איז ציגעקומען אין וויליאמסבורג אזוי סאך פלייש אז מען קען זיך דערשטיקען פין די גערויך

      ——-

      א דייטשע אידל איז אמאל געקומען צי א רב בעטן א תשובה: וואס זאל איך טאן איך האב געגעסן חזיר.

      דער רב האט אים געהייסן ער זאל יעדן טאג דאווענען מיט מנין אין נאכן דאווענען זאגן א קאפיטל תהילים.

      דער דייטשע אידל איז שוין לאנג נישט געווען אין שיל, אבער אז דער רב הייסט פרעגט מען נישט קיין שאלות

      נאכן דאווענען זעצט ער זיך אראפ זאגן א קאפיטל תהלים, נעבן אים שטייט א קליין אויסגעדארט אידל אין זאגט תהילים בדמעות שליש, טייכן טרערן גיסט זיך אים פין די אויגן

      דער דייטשע שטייט פארגאפט אין טראכט צי זיך, ווער וואלט זיך געגלייבט אז אזא קליין אידעלע זאל האבן געפרעסן אזוי פיל חזיר

    90. there is also a problem
      that when you start pointing fingers on y he did not visited the place more often
      you could get an answer that even some rabbis that are considered
      of GOOD hacshrim
      are not showing up more then once or twice a yr

    91. this story about buying off a truck is a baloney story the company was on it all the way with it Chasiish yingerman Salesman getting the none Kosher Chicken as Kosher it is hard to blive that a truck triver can get Chicken without any in Nassau Provisions to be in it ??

    92. there is also a problem
      that when you start pointing fingers on y he did not visited the place more often
      you could get an answer that even some rabbis that are considered
      of GOOD hacshrim
      are not showing up more then once or twice a yr

    93. דער דייטשע שטייט פארגאפט אין טראכט צי זיך, ווער וואלט זיך געגלייבט אז אזא קליין אידעלע זאל האבן געפרעסן אזוי פיל חזיר

      this is very sad

    94. This same story could’ve happened leider with other hechsheirim too. What about the other big supermarket in Monsey where the mashgiach is never there? The only reason I think the meat is kosher there is because it is full of heimishe yidden.

    95. TO YW 12:09 you are writing about FACTS well I am the son of one of the Rabbonim that attended the meeting your story is completly ignorant of some FACTS: you don’t mention at all that when the owner of the butcher MF was woken up that night he gave 3 three seperate versions of where these chickens came from, he used names like Empire, and then Alle Processing (Meal Mart) and then he said Vineland and when there were no proof he said BLACK MARKET which doesn’t have a paper trail for Invoices etc, the Rabbanim all agree that MF lost his “CHESKES KASHRUS” as to ANYTHING he said,the suppliers and distributors he dealt with ALL came forward and disclosed all their books and records as to what and what not they sold to MF it is also clear now that these chickens came from a Korean Poultry house which happens to be several blocks from ALLE (Meal Mart) wheather or not this has any relavence we will have to wait to see if any connection to the ALLE driver who delivered there.

    96. I want to correct some inaccuracies in postings:
      1. Rav Breslauer of Bais Tefilla did NOT inherit the position from his father zt”l. His father was the Rov of Kehillas Yaakov of Washington Heights until his petirah.
      2. Rabbi Zimmerman’s shul is called Bnai Ashkenaz and is on Cedar Lane (corner Blauvelt). MF was a Baal Tefillah there for Yomin Neorim, he was also past president of YSV

      Question for all the know-it-alls out there: Who is going to decide who has the “good” hasgocha? Until last week, EVERYONE assumed that Rav Breslauer’s hasgocha was fine. Every one ate at simchos in YSV.

      Yes, it would be great if Monsey had a Vaad, but who is going to run it– the chasidim or the mesnagdim? Lubavitch of Satmar etc.. etc..

      Unfortunately, hashgocha has become a business. Business means money.

    97. The people in KJ have done worse things in the past………
      Who says that the KJ Butcher actually did not ship to SHEVACH the whole time but did not “on purpus” give them invioces so that they can say after the fact that they did not sell them anything during the past three weeks?
      Fact: Kj allways shipped whole chikens in boxes and sent along KJ LABELS for SHEVACH to place on the wrapped packages…..
      Fact: the BOSS of HATZLUCHE is family with KJ Butcher..
      Fact: the BOSS of HATZLUCHE was fighting with SHAVACH (he wanted to get him out)
      Fact: why did H’rav Breslioer allow KJ to send along thousends of labels with out checking, the mashgiach should place the label on the chicken bottoms himself…..
      in summary: I am not so sure that this is thru, it simply does not make any sense, since he did not make so much money off the triefe meats………..
      I think that this smells like M.N.W. and A. Y. L. and many others, your comments please..

    98. What gets me laughing is that R’ Moshe Green whose sons are the owner of Hatzlucha Grocery in Monsey is going to hold a Mussar drusha today.

      Instead of it being vice versa. This whole place is upside down.

    99. to:11:51 AM

      ” EVERYONE assumed that Rav Breslauer’s hasgocha was fine. Every one ate at simchos in YSV.”

      it is many years that ys from lakewood recommended not eating at YSV.
      only if the meat/chicken is in a sealed case from the original supplier,
      did he consider relying on adler.
      how right he was.

      is hatslacha paying for the kashering?
      did he use those chickens at his simcha?

    100. Anan 12:11 PM
      From which planet are you from?…
      1)Do you know that every butcher places the labeles by himself?! nobody has to send it, it’s printed on the butchers printer!
      2), 3), 4), 5) I’ll leave that for other people to answer!

    101. I had to boil my childrens mouth cause they wear braces, it was so painful, but now they will know what it means to violate halacha.

      May the wrath of the Lord be on his enemies and may Amanadinajad boil in a barrel of kosher chicken fat.

    102. People are losing sight of one important aspect of this awful story. Until now we tended to assume that a person who appears to be a frummer yid, davens in a frummer shul, is kovea ittim leTorah, sends children to the finest Mosdos hatorah, can be assumed to sell meat and chicken which he would put in his own mouth, and his Rav Hamachshir is only there as an added safeguard, to answer sheilos, and to reassure nwecomers who do not know the owner. When a person who appeared to be a Shomer Torah Umitzvos is responsible for feeding non-kosher chickens to an unsuspecting public, we must all ask, what is wrong with our community? How could it be that simple unlearned people years ago didn’t dream of being machshil es harabbim and a graduate of yeshivos gedolos jumps into the pit of maachil neveilos utreifos?
      Will the rabbonim who accidentally sanctioned this terrible michshol get up in shul on Rosh hashono and SHabbos Shuva and say, “Morai veRabbosai, this year I do not feel worthy of standing before you and delivering the customary Drasha, my carelessness caused a terrible Michshol and I would sooner listen to divrei tochacha from one of you!” (As the Vilna Gaon said to the Dubner Maggid.)

    103. Anonymous 12:19 PM
      Sounds like you’re trying to cover up the problem with Shevach and their Mashgichim and trying to say as if Hatzlucha should have been involved in the scandal!

    104. the following email was sent to the membership of this major shul in the monsey community. similar emails are being sent to other large shuls in the area. IT lays down some TRUTH as to what’s going on – vs. some of what has been said/posted here.

      Dear Members and Friends of Bais Torah:

      This note is regarding the discovery of unlabeled packages of chicken in Shevach Meats, located in Hatzlocha grocery. An email went out on Friday, 9/1/06, which discussed this matter in detail.

      ================================================== ====

      After some investigation and discussion with a number of Rabbonim, including Rabbi Breslauer who has overseen the Hashgocho on the butcher shop in Hatzlacha grocery, the following is advised at present: Anyone who bought chicken bottoms last Tuesday, August 29, or last Wednesday August 30 from Shevach meats at Hatzlacha grocery must discard those chickens.

      If you bought and prepared that chicken, all the utensils that came in contact with the chicken are in need of Kashering. If you are among those who need to Kasher their utensils you should contact me directly to discuss the proper procedure for all utensils.

      As of this time, any other meat or chicken from Shevach meats are not known to be a problem. However, I would advise that you refrain from eating any of the meat until the matter can be clarified further.

      If and when further information becomes available, I will pass that information on to all of you.

      Rabbi Yisroel Gottlieb
      Rov, Congregation Bais Torah

    105. to:12:59 PM
      kosher suppliers are known from time to time ,when they have an over production of kosher ,to sell it on the general market ,usually to the same dist that buy their non kosher product.
      if u have access to this u can buy kosher food at significant savings.
      that’s what he thought he was getting.
      he never willfully sold anything other than food from kosher suppliers.
      he tried to beat the system,because of the enormous pressures on raising a jewish family,especially in monsey.in a “every jew for himself “environment , sanctioned or ignored by what u call rabanim this can happen does happen will continue to happen in one way or another.
      how many of us were screwed by another.
      how many parents have gone to schools and said “i can”t”,and were basically told “SCREW u”?!
      think about it.
      by the way can anybody explain why kosher is sooo?!
      why is a kosher slaughter house willing to pay a rav hamihshir/salesman $30,000.00 a month?!
      think about it,pray that u don’t do something wrong to support the lifestyle forced on us.

    106. I saw on a lot of other blogs talk about Rabbi Yehuda Shain of Lakewood and warnings signs he gave years ago. I would like to know why aren’t the monsey rabbanim calling him in as an expert? Why are they busy giving speaches and not doing the right thing? This is why it happens in the first place. The leadership in Monsey is so full of themselves.

    107. anon-2 11:51,
      “Question for all the know-it-alls out there: Who is going to decide who has the “good” hasgocha? Until last week, EVERYONE assumed that Rav Breslauer’s hasgocha was fine. Every one ate at simchos in YSV.”
      ———————————-

      That’s exactly the point. If Rabbi Breslauer cannot be trusted, then who could we trust? We rely on the Rabbonim. How am I supposed to judge what is a good hecsher or not. Some say OU is no good, other’s say Yoker is no good. Now, Chug Chsam Sofer is no good. Pinchas Horowitz – no good. How are we suposed to know? A vaad will never work. There will always be an upstart that will open his own hechsher. There is too much money involved.

    108. those of us that are a little older remember a world before kosher certification was a big issue.
      it was a better world.
      everybody knew the people that owned the stores where they shopped.
      you only shopped from a butcher or deli where you would eat in the owner’s house.
      the owner, or another close family member was always in the store if it was open.
      the owner was responsible to his customers, friends and family.
      if anybody is looking for meaning beyond these facts they are looking in the wrong places.
      stores are too big and impersonal.
      shuls are too big and impersonal.
      cheder are too big and impersonal.
      tzedukah organizations are too big and impersonal.
      klal yisroel is suffering because of growth without leadership.

    109. For those of you who said that we can not get a vaad together for hasgochas, you are all wrong. We have a vaad for the eiruv & and mikvah. The rabbonim that serve on this vaad are both chasideshe & litvishe. Let’s think positive and say it CAN BE done.

    110. to:1:58 PM
      this is exactly the point
      don’t assume, don’t rely.
      get involved ask.
      and if u make a simcha and people rely on u ,make sure u have your mashgigich there . if not go elsewhere.those that have nothing to hide welcome this.
      when was the last time at a simcha u asked whose hechsher,whose meat whose products?
      who is resposibile for the meat products
      /
      an organization,who is responsible there.
      who is kj?who is kaj ?, who ?

      what does the rav hamachsir know about all this ?
      who is he relying on?
      u’ll get disillusioned very fast.did u ever poke you nose in the kitchen to see who is doing the cooking? checking for bugs?
      who is a bigger machshil the guy that serves u lettuce or this?
      think.
      when was the last time u checked ahead of lettuce?
      why is it too hard ? did u ever try to learn how?
      easy street Judaism.
      before u go for a minor medical procedure how many so called experts d u call?
      which office d u u call ?
      kashrus, tolaim, nothing?
      we get what we deserve because that’s what we really want .
      someone to give us advice.make our decisions. someone to raise our children,
      and now someone to burn in hell for us.
      a great wake up call this time of the year.
      were is the snooze button?

    111. What GETS done kashrus wise is different than what halachchkly NEEDS to be done. Meaning the standards set up by some agencies are much more stringent than what the Shilchun Urech requires. I am not complaining b/c when something like this happends, we could understand why the major reputable agencies have high standards.

      A frum yid has ne’emonis until proven otherwise.

    112. TO foodlover said…

      A)RABBI SHAIN CAN BE REACHED HE’S LISTED IN THE LAKEWOOD PHONE DIRECTORY
      B)I KNOW HIM PERSONALLY
      HE STANDS BY WHAT HE SAYS
      AND HE HAS THE GUTS TO SAY THE TRUTH WHICH IS UNFORTUNATLEY LACKING AMONG THE POWERS THAT BE WHO CONTROL KASHRUS TODAY
      AND YES THE TRUTH OFTEN HURTS AND THOSE AFFECTED HAVE A PROBLEM WITH Y S
      c)AS SYMS SAYS I QUOTE “OUR BEST CUSTOMERS ARE THE EDUCATED CONSUMER” WE THE PUBLIC WHO PAY EXTRA FOR SUPPOSEDLY KOSHER PRODUCTS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW IF SOMETHING ISNT SO KOSHER AND WE OR OUR RAV WILL DECIDE IF WE WANT TO BE SOMEICH ON KULOS WHICH ARE MANY TIMES USED WHEN LOTS OF $$$ STANDS TO BE LOST ETC
      AND IF IT TAKES A COURAGEOUS PERSON LIKE RABBI Y S TO COME OUT AND ALERT OR ALARM THE PUBLIC SO BE IT WE OWE RABBI YS A BIG THANK YOU !!!

    113. The best solution in this terrible situation is to form a “kellah” kashrat (i.e. Flatbush)where all kehilaos/yeshivas join in and hire mashgichim indepently to check up on stores,shcitos, caterers etc. (Thst’s in addition to the current hasgacho, so nobody gets hurt).

      It did a lot of good in cities that established one and the way monsey grew b”h it’s imperative something be done now before the next scandal pops c”v

    114. To the person above asking why the rabbonim in Monsey won’t bring in an expert like Rabbi Yehuda Shain. You first have to understand how the politics works here between the rabbonim in Monsey. There are a few rabbonim that try to control everyting in Monsey (for Kovud reasons). Anything not going through their Da’as Torah is treif! Even more treif than the meat that was sold at Shevach.

    115. baalbatish said…
      A)REB YAKKOV YOSEF ZTL THE FIRST CHEIF RABBI IN OUR OWN NYC DIED OF A HEART ATTACK AS A RESULT OF HIS TRYING TO CHANGE THE KASHRUTH AT BUTCHERS IN THE EARLY 1900’S WHICH WAS SORELY LACKING
      B)I DONT KNOW WHY THIS FORUM IS TURNING PERSONAL
      WHAT SHOULD COME OUT IS A RADICAL CHANGE ACROSS THE BOARD IN HOW KASHRUTH IS RUN
      BUT ATTACKING INDIVIDUALS WONT CHANGE THE STATUS OF KASHRUTH

    116. ניסיון הערב רב לפני הגאולה

      מנהיגים מהערב רב ישלטו חמישה במינם [סימנם נג”ע ר”ע] ויבנו בתי כנסיות, רק כדי להתגבר בכך על העם

      מובא בזוהר בראשית: וחמש מינין אנון בערב רב ואנון [סימן נג”ע ר”ע] נפילים גבורים ענקים רפאים עמלקים… ומאלין שאשתארו מנהון בגלותא רביעאה, אנון רישין בקיומא סגי ואנון קיימין על ישראל כלי חמס, ועלייהו אתמר (שם ו’): “כי מלאה הארץ חמס מפניהם…” “גבורים” מינא תליתאה עלייהו אתמר: “המה הגבורים… אנשי השם”, ואנון מסטרא דאלין דאתמר בהון (בראשית י”א): “הבה נבנה לנו עיר ונעשה לנו שם”, ובנין בתי כנסיות ומדרשות ושויין בהון ספר תורה ועטרה על רישוי ולא לשמא דייה אלא למעבד לון שם, הדא הוא דכתיב: “ונעשה לנו שם”, ובסטרא אחרא מתגברין על ישראל דאנון כעפרא דארעא וגזלין לון…

      פירוש הזוהר: המתמנה על הצבור ומנהיגם ברחמים, בידוע שנשמתו מכנסת ישראל, אבל המתמנה בכלי חמס, נשמתו משורש נחש. הבונים מוסדות תורה לקנות להם שם ולהתגבר בזה על העם, למשול עליהם ביד חזקה, המה ה”גבורים” מהערב רב. “… וזה להם האות כי כל המתמנה על הצבור ומנהיגם ברחמים ונותן נפשו עליהם, בידוע, שנשמתו מכנסת ישראל, כי מרחמם ינהגם. אמנם המתמנים על ישראל בכלי חמס, נפשותיהם באה משורש נחש… כי לא יבנו הם בתי כנסיות ובתי מדרשות רק להיות חרב בידם לעשות חפצם ורצונם להתגבר על העם…” (“כתם פז” מהגאון המקובל האלוקי עיר וקדוש כמורנו הרבי רבי שמעון לביא זצוק”ל בעל מחבר זמר “בר יוחאי” בדף פ”ה)

    117. To all of u stop backing “rabbi” breslouer he is a machshil es horabim and start thinking of yourself kasher all the keilim and from now on watch what u take in in your house or what u eat

      P.S. if u back rabbi brelouer and u still eat questionble food it automaticly goes on your own risk

    118. There are 2 issues here

      One is about the meat, meaning if it was treifa or not, and if you need to kasher you rkeilim, and from when you have to be machmir etc.

      I am sure nobody will pasken these sheilos by themselves, everybody will call his own rav for a psak halaocha.
      The second issue is about the individuals, if any body was to be blame for it, and to what extant, and if we have to take any action, or if its muter to attack either by writing negetivre about them, on anyone involved in this case.

      I feel that the second issue is a “Bein Odom Lechveiro” sheila, and we got be much more carefull about this then “Bein Odom Lamokem”. In fact, its much more difficult to do tshuva on “bein odom lachveiro” than beim odom lamokem”. Bein odom lachvero if you were wrong, you have to apologize the man in personal, until then you may pray a whole day its not going to help you.
      Like the Mishna says, “Eveiros Shbein Odem Lechvero Ein Yom Kipur Mechper Od Sheratze Es chvero.”
      Now if an individual that you want to attack is also a “talmud chochem” even only a sofek, that’s much more dangerous, its like playing with fire.
      Without going into detail, anybody who feels that he has to attack anybody involved in this case, please consult your same dayen that guided you about your keilim and your other sheiles. Everything that we do no matter what has to be according to the halach. It might be that the dayen will say you may attack maybe he’ll say you must attack, the point is because it’s such a delicate sheila, consult with your famous dayen. The same that you asked about kashering your keilim or Etc. if its mutter or not.
      We need the same Daas Toraha on this sheila then on the other issue.

      So far the only letter that I saw, was regarding the issue number 1, about the kashres, nobody gave his psak regarding how we should deal with any individual
      So its chodesh Elul lets do what we have to do, and let hashem do what he has to do
      Don’t forget, Rosh Hasono is around the corner less than 3 weeks, and anybody who is doing on his own hands “Bein Odom Lechveri” Yom Kipur will not be mechaper until he apologize in person, specially if it done an blog like this.”brabim” and specially on a Talmud Chuchem.

    119. in my opinon the only way to avoid this problem in the futher is to mark avry box with a traking # wicth the mashgiack can confairm by compu with the co. we live in a hy teck world it is time to apply it lshem shumiim

    120. To the 3:12 PM anon expert: Just so you know, Kehilah Kashrus in Flatbush had a BIG michshoil last year when they caught a store (formerly Kosher Spot) selling non-glatt meat as glatt.

    121. I hope anon 12:23 was just making a sick joke – but teachers in Monsey should look out for children with burns to the mouth and act resposibly (discuss with your posek about reporting) if there is cause for concern..

    122. I can not understand what some of you say about the Rabbonim of Monsey being selfish and thinking only about the Kovud. It’s definitely not 100% true, we rely on those Rabbonim with all our Shailoos, and we may not talk like this. I will agree that a few of them are exceptions, which I don’t use them for my Shaillos, but all the others are really Erliche and Chushive Yidden who thinks Hashem and not themselves!

      Heck, the whole meeting was to help US, the Monsey community. Why would they give away from their time being involved in such a complicated case? It’s not for fun, is it? It’s just to help out all the people, and tell them, according to halacha, how to take care of the problem, and of course, make sure this is not happening once again IY”H.

      I would also not Ba’Shaigetz Mr. M.F. before I know more details.

      אל תדין את חברך עד שתגיע למקומו

      I have no idea what was his Nisyonos, and what in the world went thru his head when he decided doing such a terriblr thing. I am not fighting my own nisyonos good enough, so I can’t blame him… If it will be clear that he did it for no good reason, BeMaizid, then maybe it’s Mutter to talk on him and blame him. But until then – nothing. And besides that, that’s not gonna help us. We have to do Tshuva ourselves that something like this was able to happen to us!

      Do you think he deserves to be Stuck on both worlds, buZeh ubaBoh? is there any Tshuva available for him?

    123. anon 12:23 is one hundred percent right, i also asked my posek and he told me the same thing, the entire house including all my eight children except the two that are younger from two years, we all burned our mouths with bowling hot water three times for four and a half minutes, the water has to boil in pot for 20 minutes, and only that way is your teeth and gums kusher.

    124. What is really sad, is to see how the general heimishe public is so toatlly ignorant of what the Kashrus agencies, Hashgachos & Mashgichim of food establishments really deal with.
      In general, it is wise to assume, that eating “out” may be relying on “heterim” you may not be aware of, and may choose not to allow (this food which needed a special heter) in your own home.
      When a Rav Hamachshir prints a sign stating “yochlu anuvim v’yisbu” or in other words, eat to your hearts content – it’s kosher, that is, as was, on the day the Rav gave his seal. On any future day, when the Masgiach calls the Rov with a “shayloh” because of a “problem” and the Rov thinks and comes up with a heter, do you think they change the sign that day warning you that “today you’re eating bedievedige fleish”????
      There is no red light, green light in hasgocho reporting to alert you to a psak heter that was applied for that day. In other words, you don’t know what kind of “shaylos” any particular hechsher deals with on a constant basis.
      These “shaylos” go way beyond the Rav Hamachshir of the place you’re eating. There are details affecting kashrus from the earliest stages of production, be it the farm or the factory.
      There is almost no food product in the grocery store today that is not affected by “shaylos” and “kulos” that we don’t know about.
      And one final comment, a heimsihe restaurant on 18th Ave. in BP lost it’s hechsher a while back due to kashrus problems. Along comes another Rav Hamachshir and certifies it as kosher. My friends, the OU dropped their hecgsher. A Williamsburgh Ruv put his on without even consulting the previous Masgichim to inquire as to why the establishment lost its hechsher in the first place.
      One last word, Rav Bresslauer shli”ta is a Tzaddik. Period.
      If any wrong was done, he’ll be shouting it loudest. I am a native Monseyer born there close to 40 years ago. I remember when Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky zt”l made him Rov of Bais Tefilla.

    125. OYE VEY now that I think about this some more its really twisting my kishkus
      This is mamish a disgrace. And to the Bhama that boiled their kids mouth
      SHAME on you. You need to boil your self. This is unacceptable I am speechless my kishkus are in my mouth and I don’t think they are kosher anymore.

    126. Where did he get the meat from????

      we know it wasn”t that and it wasn”t that. so from where was it?Is he around? alive? did anybody question him? or just trief trief????

      ps
      the 3:12 kealah idea is still the best being circled here? yes, the holes can be fixed!!!!! but let’s do something besides yanking!

    127. TO ANN 4:35 & 4:36

      TO ANN 4:35 & 4:36

      THESE LETTERS
      from Rav Wissmandel
      are NOT today’s
      these are from Friday
      there was to come out a
      letter today from ALL rabonim
      and so far I have not seen it

    128. To the person who wrote about the expensive life style which forces to do this:

      this is mostly a problem in the more modern and even litvish communities.

      Speaking to my freinds from there I am shocked at the prices they pay for camp, tuition, etc. I don’t want to make this into a chassidim vs. litvish thing (if it is not yet..) but in the chassidish homes they get away with rachmim.

      There is no 4 cars in the driveway for one family; no $10,000 camp in the Rockeys; Only $150-$200 monthly tuition; simchas can be made so simple.

      Perhaps the litvish rabbanim should start working on this!

    129. גייט די גאס געוואר ווערן די אמת לאמיתו וואס דא איז פארגעקומען?

      איז דאס וויכטיג למען ישמעו ויראו אז יעדער זאל וויסען וואס דער אמת איז דא?

      איז דא פארשידענע מענטשען וואס זענען דא גרייט אויף אלעם באי דער אמת זאל נישט ארויס קומען צוליב פארשידענע סיבות

      איז דאס א היסטארישער פארברעך דאס צו פאדעקען

    130. You people are not getting the point at all. The so called Heimeshe hechsherim are much more lenient than the so called modern hechsherim.

      My friend works at the OK and he told me that by the OK, OU, and Kof K NO owner(not even a frumer owner) is allowed to have the keys to the fridge or to the cooking area.

      ALL the heimishe hechsherim give a hechsher on the owner (gavra) not the restaurant. The rely on the frumer owners.

      The abovementioned hechsherim give a hechsher on the the restaurant as they are in control of what comes in and what goes out.

      Only with a professional system where the mashgiach receives the meat and keeps an accurate record of what comes in and what goes out can you give a reliable hechsher.

      The respected Rabbonim in Monsey should get together and implement this system.

      The problem with the butcher store in Faltbush under Kehilla was the EXACT same problem. They did not have a mashgiach tmidi who had the only keys. Till this day Kehilla did not learn from their mistake and still rely on frumer owners.

      All the heimeshe hechsherim must change their policy and start demanding full time mashgichim who are in full and sole control of all meat establishments.

    131. Not LH, just people must know

      • The Breslauer was contacted many times by neighbors of YSV about Yiddish waiters who come on shabbos with their cars. A positive response was never received.

      D.H. (now the vishnitz shamesh) was manager in YSV and always told his heimish friends not to eat there. He approached the baal machshir when he came for simchas, to come into the kitchen, which he refused. He once told the Rav about goiyim cooking on shabbos and other similar gross violations! The Rav, instead of cracking down he told caterer (Feilex) who then threatened the manager with revenge.

      Even last week Thursday night the baal machshir’s only problem was, that the storage lock was broken in (in the presence of rabbanim). It only bothered him that this is geneiveh and how may one do this!

      The Litvish oilem say that it is just the chassidim who are trying to burry the only Litvish rav in Monsey giving hechsheuirim.

      I heard from an insides source that they knew last Friday that the story with a truck driver was a hoax and that he had purchased it at Costco Wholesalers and Nassau Foods (This is unconfirmed) as far back as January!

    132. to all my friends that kept kosher,
      when we met at the grand canyon .vegas, salt lake city.
      u guys were right.
      it sounds like Judaism is not what the rabbi can do for you;
      but rather what you can do for yourself.
      i don’t have your e mail add, i ‘m visiting your neck of the woods,
      is this kosher scandal ,something like celebrity endorsements gone wrong . something like o.j.?
      or is the real thing .
      like when we were talking about aaron supreme you said its all the same just celebrity difference .
      than those guys that were using that other brand meal something they would’nt touch this stuff.what is really going on .
      im my marketing specialty i find it fascinating.
      is this the engineering percent,the political percent or the follows the money percent.
      any way thanks for giving me this blog . f f you remember me drop me a line like what the H is going on?
      great thinking that im talking to you.
      JFK

    133. To Yiddish Mama 6:13 Your “unconfirmed reports” makes no sense, how can you buy product in January when Pesach is in April and Rav Breslauer was the Baal Machshir for the Pesach meats and the Butcher had to clean out his stock for Pesach if he didn’t do that then Rav Breslauer as baal Machshir is completly negligent about kashrus and even more for Pesach, Besides it makes no sense that the mashgiach didn’t see so many boxes without labels or markings for so many months????

    134. Quote

      “To the person above asking why the rabbonim in Monsey won’t bring in an expert like Rabbi Yehuda Shain. You first have to understand how the politics works here between the rabbonim in Monsey. There are a few rabbonim that try to control everyting in Monsey (for Kovud reasons). Anything not going through their Da’as Torah is treif! Even more treif than the meat that was sold at Shevach. “

      Leider, Pnei Hador K’Pnie Hakelev!

      After reading your words I thought that instead of having some rabanim give us misar drushes. We should gather all rabanim of monsey and put up a couple baa’lie batim who should give them misar drushes on what they have to be mesaken!

    135. I agree with baalbatish At 10:07 AM,

      Everyone will be declared as chusivah yid is if they do what hashem asks from him, Not from another perosn. For examlpe:
      Once a fruma ruv said that it is not allow to work in Manhattan b/c it is too much of Nisoyen – The same ruv when it came to he’s nisoyen one of hes mispalelim maybe who gave him nice money too did something wrong he backed him all the way.

      Now if I would do wrong on a hechsher that maybe a mistake and I’ll do tshuvah. If I would go in to a store and steal it can not be a mistake and I’m a Ganev and a rushe, I may Daven how erlich I want and may learn half day and work very very had and get to a nisoyen.

      But If a ruv hes business is to give the hechsher and he knows that people trust him it is a big achreius not do the even half of a mistake or almost a mistake it is about the people who relay on him it’s not between him and hashem just – I would called it Bemeizid

      (I don’t know this ruv and not this story and don’t believe in every post on this website just waiting to hear from the Rabunim – Just trying to explain what it menas)

    136. to 4:55 – What kind of a rov tells someone to do something so dangerous as to put boiling (not “bowling) hot water into one’s mouth? It is assur to cause yourself harm and if you put boiling water in your mouth you can cause severe burns. And what about kashering all of your insides that ate the treife meat – Maybe you should also drink the boiling hot water.

    137. Yiddish Mama 6:13 Your “UN-CONFIRMED” is exactly how you say it is, but let’s talk about Confirmed first
      1) MF had major financial problems and a major cash crunch in the last couple of months
      2) MF was seen by neighbor’s at the back parking lot from Hatzluche constantly packing out from his own car boxes of products, which say’s a lot of where he got the treif product.
      3) I have seen Shevach’s cooler many times and I can tell you that it’s not big and to store so many boxes (only 20 were caught but there was many more) is impossible without being caught by the Mashgiach.

    138. anonymous 6:34
      you must read before you comment.
      one of the most important issues here is that there was no mashgiach because there was a frum owner.
      the rav accepted that.
      this is the consequences

    139. I agree with the recent poster. Why do the local small hechsherim rely on frum owners? All the big organizations Star K, OU, OK, etc – you can say what you want about them, but they require a mashgiach temidi for meat!! Its sad but true, I don’t care if owner is chinese or bearded yid, an owner should not have keys. The big ones have mashgiach with only key to fridge and the special tape. It would cost us only pennies extra if the stores needed to pay extra for a mashgiach. This extra cost is well worth it. You see the consequences of relying on heterim. Even closed circuit cameras are being used by some of the big organizations. You can always review tape and see who did what. We must get with the 21st century and make the kashrus better with it!

    140. To Yiddishe Mama,,,$150-$200 monthly tuition??? Surely that is not enough to run a yeshiva or cheder. I’m paying $1300 a month for 4 kids with a tuition break. How do chasideshe yeshivas survive on so little?

      Oh, btw,,,not everyone has 4 cars. I’m still driving a 1998. Tuition is more of a priority for me.

    141. get off the shain kick. he is an alarmist who will jump up and down about something for no reason at all. u want someone to review kashrus, which will never happen, there are plenty of #1 kashurs professionals in the monsey spring valley area. without even thinking i could come up wtih 3 or 4 people. shain is not your answer.

    142. To 4:51 PM

      This Neveile is not even admitting that he did something whorg nor does he want to do tesuve and u are worrying for him when the gmoro says cotie vmactie es horabim ein maspikin….

    143. To 4:24 PM

      I heard from one of the rabonim that is big involved in this case that basically there are 2 reasons that they don’t condemn this so called ball macshir “treifos”

      1) He is considered a Talmud cocham by a lot of litvishe and by this litvishe if u can kwetsh ois a trikene shmate u are a godel and by pointing the finger to him they will make kvod hatorah the eikor and kashrus a tofel

      2) And for the cashidishe they will say it’s only politic and business

      So they decided to focus on koshering the keilim and to bring back kashrus in Yiddish heiman and with this ball macshir they thing they have time.

    144. To 5:13 PM

      #1 rabbi yakov kamenezski made him rov before he opened his business of printing hecsher stickers.

      #2 all that u say is right but overhear there was no bal macshir on top and no masgiach so this people did not eat shalidige they eat treifos with a good hecsher as u say.

    145. funny thing Rabbis Weismandel, Steinmets & Spiegel signed a letter that only Shevach is at fault not Hatzlocha. That’s Rubashkin working the gullible.

      it’s going from the fryer into the fire itself.

    146. 2:23 & 4:55 you forgot one very important think when kashering your children’s mouth and have to redo it – next time do NOT forget to have them bite on a boiling hot rock so you can be sure they are 100% kosher

      on a more serious note after 120 and I have to account for my life I can say I definitely paid for Kosher

    147. to Ann 1:58 PM

      You can do a vadd for the heimishe yiden who will know that they only eat from a hechser wich is certified by the Vadd. That means that the Vaad folows the Hecsher.

      Of course there will be people or Rabonim who will eat and give hechsher without the Vaad.

      But the Vaad should be for some one who wants and try the best they could do to eat kosher.

      As it is not possible to say that everyone should make kosher the chicken himself and go to the shochet and eat only at home what he made himself – but this is not possible – it is possible but you need to see will your kids be able to follow or not if they can’t follow you dorei dores that means that you can’t do it b/c they will loose the route – everyone needs to make a route for their kids they should be able to stay frum and erlich.

      Chazal say “Gezireh Sh`ein hatsibur yochel lamud bo” “Mutev shyihyi shuggim val yihyi mazidim”

      So to know that you try the best you fallow the vadd that should be what we need.

    148. I’m a frequent in the parking lot by Hatzlocha Grocery, Shevach Meat and Glauber Bakery I never saw Mr. M Finkel shleep any thing this is a lie all deliveries is by truck or van Mr. M Finkel was always cutting meat and packaging

    149. Today Monday as of 5:00PM Askonim have set up a kashering site near Hatzlocha Grocery were everybody was able to kasher there keilim.for free no charge.
      The askonim asked for help from Chaverim from Monsey and from Chaverim of KJ.
      Chaverim from Monsey and Chaverim from KJ responed with help
      In addition of the several members from Chaverim of KJ, there was also a whole staff of experins “Kashering Mashgichem” from KJ to assit in the kashering process
      Special thanks to Hatzlocha Grocery and Glaubers Bakery for supplying the gas line, bakery goods and drinks
      This Kashering will also be going on Tuesday and Wednesday at the same place.

    150. Hundreds of people from all kinds, came to Kasher today at the kashering site at Hatzlocha Grocery, all standing with broken hearts and tears in there eyes, like they would be bringing a “Korben”, thinking what bought them here, why they have to kasher all there Keilim on a simple Monday in chodesh Elul.

    151. All you r’shuim here making this into a chasidish vs non-chasidish machlokes are a bunch of chayas!

      Do you know how most of your Chasidic bretherin do kashrus?? THEY RELY ON THE MAJOR KASHRUS AGENCIES! Y

      ou think they are sending chasidishe yiddin mit burd in peyos to the central USA or any other place so their holy than thou hebrew lettered hechsher could grace the product?! They are relying on the agency who sends the mashgiach to the plant in the fist place. Do the math if you can.

      which means if the plant is OU certified more often than not they are sending the OU mashgiach in or they are relying l’chatchila on the OU. Same with the OK, heiliga Star-K, cRc, or any other reliable agency out there.

      So if, and only if because there is more TRUTH to come out here that you people are spewing for no reason, there was no full time mashgiach here, it was the fault of the chasidishe becasue thats usually the way they do it.

      Of course there are a few – VERY FEW – heimish hechsherim that do it right but for the most part, I am sorry to say the heimish hechsher is a BIG FAT JOKE.

      ybs

    152. WOW! WOW!…..
      All the hell break loose!

      Can someone please summarize what was being said here?

      I’m all confused, I see thousands of words, & I can’t set them straight, I see words like “Chicken , meat, chazzer, neveile, treife, rabbunem, ganuvim, mamzeirem, baal mach’sher, monsey, vaad, lushen hora, erliche yid, rechilas, tzadik, truck, balony, shul, drusha, Weismandel, KJ, labeling, litvish, goi’yem, satmer, hatzlucha, parking lot, Lebavitch, Glauber’s, misnagdem, & sooo much more words, can anybody please clarify things over here, oh & not to mention all the misspellings that’s going on here, Gevaldig, you did a wonderful job, I’m totally confused!

      Truly Yours,
      Thanks for your understanding!

    153. Anon 7:10 OY VAY another name in the movie, my head is spinning of so many names of companies, I think I can go into the meat business already…now it’s WEST SIDE FOODS.

    154. They have their place in BRonx and in N.J. They are very big in treif meat but they also carry Meal Mart and Empire, why the rabbanim let this happen that the same company should deliver both Kosher and Treif is beyond me??

    155. MF fro shevach told West Side when he started buying treif that he has a customer for treif meats and he is only the middleman and west side should deliver it to a differant place but right before the first delivery he told them that the customer has a packed freezer and he can’t take possesion of the meats so MF will take it in and have the treif customer pick it up later, this happened again and again until MF became a regular customer.

    156. “In the Know” at 12:45. Thanks for telling the truth. Did anyone ever visit the Herr’s potatoe chip and the other pretzel factory in Pa? Well guess what? They have bags of Herr’s hanging on the wall for purchase, and if you want, they have Blooms, Schwartz, Paskez, etc. hanging there too. What do you think happens with pretzels or potatoe chips. Do you really think a chasidisher yid from Blooms and Schwartz and Paskez actually own Herrs? No. What these companies do, is on a certain day of the week/month, a OU Rov, or another Rov comes in and watches the production to make sure it is done the kosher way. Then, these same exact pretzels, potatoe chips, yes, the same exact ones, the Herrs ones, are the ones all you holy molys are eating. The Rov doesn’t own factory. and the chasidershir yid with the long beard and curly peyos doesn’t either. These companies all are relying on the OU etc. That’s why I find it so funny when “my family doesn’t eat Wise”. HA! Guess what people? You ARE eating Herrs and Wise. But you are eating them with a hechsher. Call Paskez and Blooms, and Schwartz and ask them if you can visit their factory on Chol Hamoed. They have no Factory!If I am wrong, or if someone knows where these factories are please correct me. I want to take the kids there on Chol Hamoed. It’s a great trip.

    157. I just called WEST SIDE and I was transferred to Mr. Ackerman who spoke yiddish and he said YES its emes they sold the treif meat but the name SHEVACH is not even in their computer because MOshi F.wasn’t the buyer he was only the shipping address of where the product wa shipped, he said that WEST SIDE FOOD is going to put a ad in the newspapers about this

    158. Yes, you are eating Herrs and Wise and you are eating them with an EXTRA hechsher if OU isn’t good enough for you, but that extra hechser is from the Rabonnim that rely on the OU. So just to let you know, eat Wise, enjoy it, the hechsher might just be BETTER! Cause it’s real. Real. Real. The OU-ers etc. really do go there, fly all over the world. When you bake with food coloring, you think it’s so simple? Talk to an OU Rov, he’ll tell you how much headache and heartache goes into making sure the food coloring is from realiable sources.

      How about all that Nosh and junk food. We never had so much junk like we have today. Every day they come out with a new piece of garbage. You think some chasidishe yid is out west checking the jelly beans, the lemon heads? OU etc. is doing that. So if you want to buy any of that junk, an OU is probably BETTER than those stickers on the boxes.

    159. NOBODY can be trusted in today’s times. Makes no difference the length of the beard, the yichus of the “ehrliche” merchant, the number of strands in his hanging peyos, nor the whiteness of the socks he wears on shabbos. I will stop at this.

      One thing is certain. MONEY takes precedence over everything.

    160. To yiddish mamma @ 5:54 (post is below).

      Your comment is absolutely wrong.

      Te chassidishe oilam generally do not have professional jobs that pay real money many of them work for cash and steal from food stamps and medicaid.

      Don’t throw rocks in glass houses……

      yiddish mamma said…
      To the person who wrote about the expensive life style which forces to do this:

      this is mostly a problem in the more modern and even litvish communities.

      Speaking to my freinds from there I am shocked at the prices they pay for camp, tuition, etc. I don’t want to make this into a chassidim vs. litvish thing (if it is not yet..) but in the chassidish homes they get away with rachmim.

      There is no 4 cars in the driveway for one family; no $10,000 camp in the Rockeys; Only $150-$200 monthly tuition; simchas can be made so simple.

      Perhaps the litvish rabbanim should start working on this!

      5:54 PM

    161. Don’t kid yourself. The chassidishe oilem indulges in very expensive tastes. My wife tells me the clothing the women wear are quite expensive.

      The amount of silver, sterling of course, in a chassidishe house, can put Tiffany to shame!

      Finally, take a drive up to the Jewish catskills and notice the expensive homes going up and how many of them are being purchased by chasssidishe. More so than the other groups.

    162. Can anyone please post the latest P’sak signed by the Rabbonim concerning kashering.The last one I have seen is from Rav Weismandl
      dated 7 Ellul. Has there been a subsequent one issued?

    163. is the story about west side foods true? if so was it sold in Hatzlucha Grocery? And by the way why are people making this in a chasidisha-litfisha fight when we are both in the same boat now?

    164. In response to the 10:15 anonymous, you want to know if a “subsequent” psak by R Weissmandl came out?

      What exactly does that mean?

      Does the psak change as the wind changes directions? What exactly makes a psak change in this matter? Economic pressure?

    165. Well now that the owner of the establishment has been found guilty but this blog, i think its time to move on.

      raboysi, this is yemi ellul. do you want der Eybishter to be dan u with the same kaf zchis that you have been dan this person?

      Do you want Hakudish Burech Hee to be dan you like you have Harav Bresslauer who knows more about Halucha than you would probably EVER know???

      I would bet 99.99% of the posters here dont even come up to the fungus on his toenails when it comes to y’diis in halucha.

      Think about it.

    166. I have a question-why are any of the people who ate from this feeling guilty. The Torah says ‘Eid echad neeman bissurin’. That means Hashem says I have a right to rely on a frum person who says something is kosher. If it subsequently turns out to be not true, I am an ‘Ones’, not a ‘shogeg’, which means I do not need a kaprah. If someone thinks differently, I would like to know why.

    167. “I only buy CHABAD meat and poultry (i.e. David Elliot or Shor Habor) so I B”H have no issues….”

      From this one, sure.

      But, what’s to stop another butcher from doing the same thing with David Elliot??

    168. Isn’t FINKEL a litvish sounding name? Isn’t BRESLAUER a litvak? What till we find out that the people at WEST SIDE FOODS are also litvish!!! That’s why this is a clear cut Litvish problem and Chassidim are suffering!!!

    169. To 10:32 AM

      Yes he may know the halacha 99.99% better than all of us so that is what it means Yodeia es riboinoi vmecaven limroid boi

      (he knows his creater and he has inseen to do agaist him)

    170. Do I hear anybody accusing WEST SIDE FOODS for selling treif? Its not WEST SIDE’s fault for selling it’s BRESLAUER fault for not doing his job!!!! If WEST SIDE FOODS sells treif does it mean you have to buy there NO!! If Mcdonalds sells treif do you eat there? If you are a shaygatz like Finkel and incompetent as B. It happens!!!!

    171. Response to BRNW a P’sak may be modified as additional facts are determined.(for example the cut -off date for requiring kashering.Is it one week ,six month or does it apply if you bought meat once even ten years ago?) Furthermore I understand that a recent P’sak signed by many of the Rabbonim of Monsey(including Rav Breslauer)has been issued.If anyone knows of this P’sak please post.

    172. It is brought in sforim, that if you purchase food with money from ‘trefene mekoros’, that food is also metamtem halev. I heard that Reb Hershele Spinke Zatzal told his chasidim not to take food stamps for that reason.
      Before everyone condemns MF, by being mekabel Loshon Hora. [You may well be allowed to choshesh & Kasher your Keilim etc. Until a Psak Beis Din comes out you may not condemn him see Chofetz Chaim].
      How about a little self searching was all your money Kosher, did you feed your family Macholos Asuros?
      I am sure you will find many limudei zechus on yourself, imagine a piece of meat with so many kulos like your limudei zechus on yourself is it for sure kosher lemhadrin min hamehadrin?
      I wonder if you will print my point, but it is a good one.
      BTW Yudel, after someone pointed out 4 years on your blog & 8 over here, you corrected your blog. in Beis Din you would have been posul Because Keivon Shehigid Shuv Aino Chozeir Umagid.
      Imagine a hechsher on a choimetz product changing their dates by four years or Yoshon by 4 months. How do you answer that.
      As the guy asked 4 years 8 years or 65 years. I am challanging you on the alteration you made. It would be Posul in Beis Din & for sure here.

    173. I see someone here who is trying to make this a Litvish-Chasidish thing, that Litvaks are not trustworthy, and because of them the Chasidim are suffering. Others ask how such a thing could happen, and some even make the mistake of attacking a Talmid Chochom, R’ Breslauer Shlit”a.

      For anonymous the Litvak-hater (and horrible speller) I’d like to point out that the majority of consumers in that store are Chasidim. if you don’t understand my point, hold on.

      On the “How could this happen/why wasn’t R’ Breslauer watching” front, Chazal guarantee that HaShem doesn’t allow a tzaddik to stumble. If we all stumbled, we are far from tzaddikim. Instead of pointing the finger at the people who “should have been watching” we need to remember the four fingers pointing back at us.

      Perhaps because we are not careful in what comes out of our mouths, (such as the diatribes here against R’ Breslauer, Litvaks, etc.) HaKadosh Boruch Hu wanted us to realize that we’re not in control of what goes in either.

      Even if you never ate from this (hard to imagine with catering halls using it) and you think you’re OK because you only buy X, Y or Z brand, know that if you are a part of this community you are culpable and must do Teshuva. There is a Borei Olam and he runs the world. If we blame others, we’ve missed the message.

    174. To you who eat only “Chabad” please be advised that in the famous butcher store under the Kehilla in Faltbush who was doing the exact same thing as MF (repacking “any meat” and calling it “glatt kosher”) they found a box of CHK (so called “Chabad”) plumbas!

      This was publicized at a public meeting in Flatbush.

    175. To Anonymous 11:34 AM (and anybody else who agrees) –
      Perhaps you missed it, but they’ve been blowing shofar in shul for some time now. WAKE UP! Do teshuva. It’s leitzonim like you who prevent people from doing proper Teshuva. Rachmona Litzlan!
      Oy lanu miyom hadin, oy lanu miyom hatochacha.

      Stop pointing fingers and realize that you are part of the problem.
      (P.S. – I have no idea who the people involved are. Never met any of them to my knowledge.)

    176. when u allow all our kosher establishments to be run by amigos’
      it becomes very easy to pull off such a scam.

      to all you out there i have a question .
      is there a mitzvahnof kadima to a yheudi establishment that employees mainly amigos?
      what about a non yehudi establishment that employees yheudim?
      what about a kosher slaughter house that runs on shabatt because the drivers/workers are non yhudim?
      what about if the rabbanim get paid well to find a heter and keep it from the puplics knowledge?
      what about if you in monsey were the rabbanim hamitirim live would like to use the same
      heter,would be allowed to use it?
      can anybody explain to himself why ther is such a difference in price?
      the amigos get the same.
      is the labor in kosher food of an undocumented mtamtam according to rav h.s..zt”l?
      ther is plenty of tshuva to go .
      around.
      lets start by not relying in self appointed ganomim rabanim tzadikin, children of real tzadikim.
      as nidberu yiraei hashaem ish el rayhu, vyakev hashem vayishma.
      talk to your friends for chizuk ,
      that need chizuk,
      siyata dishmaya has to follow.
      vyakhev hashem vayishma.
      ktiva vachatima tova.
      ksiva vachasima toiva.
      any way you like.

    177. This is what happens when the Chassidim start buying meat from a Litvisha supervision. In old Europe, Chassidim were not such cheaters; they would buy meat only through a “Chasiddisha” mashgiach! That’s what a “Chossid” is! He is “”extra”” careful that a drop of “treifa” meat does not enter his mouth, even though according to halacha he can rely on the mashgiach etc. etc. and leave the blame and aveiro to him. (That’s “Litvish”)

      Now is the time!
      Wake up!
      It’s never too late to do “TESHUVAH”
      (kabbalah al haossid – from now on be more careful)

    178. I am fairly new to this blog, so I don’t know the history of the most responded to story or issue. However, 280 comments (and counting!) on this issue points to one very simple fact:

      The state of Kashrus in USA is pathetic. We have hundreds, if not, thousands of people learning Daf Yomi and the state of Kashrus in the USA is fast sinking! Can someone reconcile the two for me.

      Bottom line: What is more important? Learning the daily daf or adhering to the most basic tenet of our religion. After all, if you approach anyone in this world, they associate the word Jew with Kosher. Very basic. Anyone worldwide associates kosher food with Judaism.

      NOW, we find ourselves struggling with Kashrus!!!!!!!!!! What is going on? If you think I am off base, there are approx. 280 others who are likewise in the dark as to where Kashrus is or where it is headed.

      It is high time to get back to basics. The REAL basics of this religion.

      Pardon the pun but let us get back to the meat and potatoes of this relgion and skip the gravy.

      I sincerely welcome an intelligent response to this.

      Thank you.

    179. “I have a question-why are any of the people who ate from this feeling guilty. The Torah says ‘Eid echad neeman bissurin’. That means Hashem says I have a right to rely on a frum person who says something is kosher. If it subsequently turns out to be not true, I am an ‘Ones’, not a ‘shogeg’, which means I do not need a kaprah. If someone thinks differently, I would like to know why.”

      Here’s why:
      Two things happen when you eat non-kosher food. 1) You rebel against G-d (just as if you spoke loshen hora or turned on a light switch or whatever) and 2) the nonkosher food becomes part of your body – blood and flesh together with your blood and flesh. Jews feel (and especially chassidim) that this has a deletrious effect on your soul, making it harder to do mitzvos, etc.

      And the two effects are, IMHO, independent. Which means that even if 1) does not apply, 2) still does.

      Thus, if I justifiable relied on someone else, who fed me treif, I might be okay with Hashem on a “scale of judgement” basis – I will not be judged unfavorably come RH/YK – as 1) does not apply – but 2) does.

      And you really don’t know how this will affect you, for all the usual reasons (minute amount, slow acting, harding to judge oneself objectively, etc.) See the Gemara’s story about Acher.

    180. Artscroll Am Haoretz, true Kivon Shehigid is in Beis Din[ Like I said] & only Beis Din other wise he gets malkus from another laav Loi Yokum Eid Echod Bo Ish. See Chofetz Chaim.
      Now what is the din of Eid Echod Bo Ish On a blog ask your Rabbi, because he probably won’t permit internet for starters.

    181. Thus, if I justifiable relied on someone else, who fed me treif, I might be okay with Hashem on a “scale of judgement” basis – I will not be judged unfavorably come RH/YK – as 1) does not apply – but 2) does.

      And you really don’t know how this will affect you, for all the usual reasons (minute amount, slow acting, harding to judge oneself objectively, etc.) See the Gemara’s story about Acher.

      Can you give me some sources for this? All these things are normally true IF the Torah says don’t do something and you do it. Show me where it says these things apply in a case of an Ones.

    182. To 11:44

      (P.S. – I have no idea who the people involved are. Never met any of them to my knowledge.)

      So u are not a shitif u just think he did the right think

      Rachmona Litzlan!
      Oy lanu miyom hadin, oy lanu miyom hatochacha.

    183. Anon 1202,

      The state of Kashrus in the USA has NEVER been better. We have many agencies who are very reliable and only thru chasday HaS_em are we able to have so many kosher products on the shelves. There are far less machloykisin regarding kashrus here in the USA than in EY. Of the 300 kashrus agencies listed in the USA section of Kashrus Magazine a VERY MAJOR part of them are reliable.

      Of course every so often something happens that has to be dealt with but that is the same in every industry. BH it is dealt with and Kashrus comes out on top when that happens. After the maaysa in Flatbush, Kashrus standards were increased across the board. This happens all over the world and IYH all you holy rollers (at least you think you are) in Monsey will do the same.

      I would still like to think that all you people on this blog who are flapping your gums really have no clue what you are talking about.

      And to all of you making this into a chasidish vs non-chasidish issue, who are the holyer than thou hechsherim that put stickers on thinks making you think someone went out to the plant to supervise the run? I can certianly attest to the fact that I have been in places where like a previous post re potato chips, stickers were being placed on product so it could be sold in heiliga monsey, boro park, willyburg etc. And, I’m not talking about on flour which would be simple. It was on items that had igredients that could have the potental to be “glatt treif!”

      To Mr. David Elliot out there, the Lubies are in a similar boat. Dont think your stuff is beyond reproach.

      The only way anyone could be 100% sure that kashrus meets standards they would like to have would be to mill your own wheat, milk your own cows, grow your own veggies etc.

      Get off your high horses b/c when you fall you will fall under your horse and the horse will leave you a present on your face.

    184. SO! Where is the Kol Korah from all Monsey Rabbonim??? Sounds to me there is a problem writing the Noosach of the Kol Korah as to not be able to blame any of the “Chushevah Yiden” who were involved in this scam!

    185. “To Mr. David Elliot out there, the Lubies are in a similar boat. Dont think your stuff is beyond reproach.”

      Even if it *were*, still, we have to consider not only the trustworthiness of DE, but of every person who handles the meat. So, we could easily fall the same trap. Remember, there’s nothing impugned with KJ shechita here. It could have just as well been anyone else’s. *That’s* why I only buy from a Lubavitch butcher. And, yes, I’m putting a lot of trust in him.

    186. As a modern orthodox woman who is always looked at funny when I go into kosher supermarkets with my hair uncovered and perhaps wearing jeans to purchase the food for my kosher home, I have to say that I am both appalled and disapointed by some of the comments on this blog. Why are there those that are trying to turn this into a Chassidim vs Litvaks issue? Isn’t there enough divisivness within this community? This is a terrible occurence that affects every single part of the Monsey community.

      It is always very very easy to point fingers at the Rabbi’s the Mashgichim, the vendors etc etc, but a lot harder to examine ourselves, each and every one of us and discover how we have contributed to this horrible thing. This was not a conspiracy by Litvaks to hurt Chassidim or vice versa, maybe we should be looking at this as an opportunity.

      As an outsider within the Monsey community I have seen many, many hipocritical things that go on in both the Chasidishe velt and the Litvish world. Forr example – at a gym where there is a women’s only section tthere are constantly women on the main gym floor in inappropriate attire by anyone’s standard, yet they are wearing a snood or kercheif to protect their modesty by covering their hair. There are jewish mosdos that are turning away children because the parents don’t have the money to pay tuition, forcing them to send their jewish children to public schools. There are welfare cheaters (essentially ganovim, even if they are just stealing from the government) driving around in expensive SUVs and purchasing $100+ outfits for their two year olds to wear on Shabbos.

      There is SO MUCH room for improvement in every segment of the jeewish population of Monsey (and everywhere else), why point fingers at each other just to try to make ourselves feel better? Why not recognize this as an opportunity to realise that despite appearances or what kind of hat or beard we do or do not wear, or what kind of hair covering we do or do not wear, we are all jews standing before Rosh Hashana with perhaps the worst sin of all, eating nonkosher food on our records through no fault of our own.

      I have to agree with the commenter who pointed out that there is a correlation between what comes out of our mouths and what goes in. Stop pointing fingers and see how we can fix and heal our community so that we never need to deal with this sort of thing again.

      That said, I need to go boil my kid’s mouths now, but first I will heat up some rocks….

    187. To my good friend in the know,

      By the tone and content of your 1 pm comment, you are as angered and frustrated by the Kashrus scene in the US today as I am. I count you among my compatriots. Thank you.
      Signed,
      Anon 12:02

    188. Dear Editor,

      I’d like to weigh in on a couple of thoughts from out in the boondocks. We live in a world where we like to believe that perception is reality. We judge people by the environment they are in, the clothes they where, the moves, the looks and the shprach.

      Once again our greater Jewish community is shaken from those core commitments. A frum butcher, in a frum store, in a frum neighborhood, is blatantly accused of fooling customers by mislabeling treif chickens as kosher.

      The story is not clear as who is to blame. It will be, but for the purpose of this writer it makes no difference whether it was the butcher, the distributor, the Mashgiah, the Rav HaMachshir or the landlord.

      Until the scandal each one of them had something we know as a chezkas kashrus. So we were happy walking into a store seeing a sea of black jackets, a bunch of beards, barrels of pickles with exclusively haimishe hashgacha, and we bought to outrhearts content. No questions as to who is the Rav HaMachshir, who is the butcher, who is the distributor or the meat packer.

      The ambience of kashrus had permeated the store with its every product bedecked with Hebrew letters and heimish names coronating it with the crown of kashrus.

      I say the greater community, and I don’t want to totally exclude myself, but maybe I’m like the fellow in one of Rabbi Krohn’s stories.

      The Rabbi was preaching to a packed crowd. The mood was somber and tense as he expounded on the gravity of sin. He exhorted the massed to repent – to do teshuva – and to come back to the faith and laws of their Creator. Then he added the clincher. He was reluctant to use the power of those words, but he knew that they would stir his audience.
      “Does everybody in this community know what is going to happen to them?” He asked. “Everyone in this community is going to die!”
      Everyone in the audience was aghast with fear. The somberness of the moment was captured in the deep creases that suddenly formed upon their faces.
      Except for one elderly gentleman who sat in the second row directly in front of the rabbi. He had a broad smile on his face. In fact, he was chuckling. The rabbi was disturbed. Perhaps the old timer did not get the point. In even louder tones the rabbi implored, “It is time to repent!” Then he added, this time with increased fervor, “Did you hear me? Everyone in this community is going to die!”
      The man’s smile broadened. He seemed numb to the countenance of his fellow listeners – the rabbi’s words simply had no effect on him.
      The rabbi stared directly at him and with a passion in his voice, he asked “What’s the matter with you? Don’t you realize that everyone in this community is going to die?”
      The old man stared back, his smile broader than ever. “Heh Heh! He chuckled. It’s alright rabbi, I’m not from this community!”

      Well, Yated readers, I am not from “this community.” I don’t live in Monsey. I live out of town. And when I see Hebrew letters on a bag of popcorn, a thrill runs up my spine. WOW! How’s they do that!

      And when my kids see a stranger with a yarmulke, or a stranger with a beard and payos, they get as excited as if one of the Gedolim flew in from Eretz Yisrael!

      So in a world where Yiddishkiet is always hiding behind the apron of the secular, if not Baptist Society. I envied all of those who take kashrus for granted. I envied all of those of you whose hashgacha is not dependent upon the swiftness or the sharpness of the knife that slaughtered the chicken, but rather by the length of the payos or the frock or the bekeshe of the fellow who sold it.

      So in my little town, I have to ask questions. “Where did this meat come from? Mr. Butcher, are you Shomer Shabbos? Where did you learn how to salt meat. Who was there at the delivery?

      And when you answer, “The Mashgiach was there,” I respond. “Oh? The mashgiach? Who is the Mashgiach? And whose in charge of him? Was he there when the meat was unloaded? Did he see the seal?”

      And when you tell me the name of the Rav HaMachshir, I have to ask what the fact that he knows how to teach, or give a great drasha or explain a Shach has to do with his ability to understand supply and demand and realize whether or not chickens are falling off the back of a truck.

      What was the worst kashrus scenario that he dealt with? Did a butcher ever try to pull a fast one on him? Did the owner of the shop ever threaten him.

      OK So they know me in town as a nudnik. But they respect me. I am the Ben Torah. I am the Yeshiva Man. The fruumie. I am not ridiculed by asking the questions. And believe it or not, the butcher, the mashgiach, the Rav haMachshir take pride in answering them. They know I take nothing for granted. And I can’t.

      My butcher has no little payalach to impress me. He doesn’t where a black hat. He wears the cap of the local football team and doesn’t try to impress me with his piety. He just wants me to know that he is a simple butcher and follows the rules that his Rabbi set for him.

      He does not have the keys to the freezer. He can’t get in there by himself. Oh. he’s frum allright. But he does not even want the keys. He sayss that’s the way it was with the last butcher and he said that’s fine by him. And if Let the Mashgiach open the vault.

      So I am stuck in the world where I have to ask questions. I have to eat Heinz Ketchup and Hellman’s mayonnaise (two products that were left untainted by the vinegar scandal some 20 years ago). And unless some cousin flies in from Boro Park, I am stuck with Wise potato chips. Yep, I live with the Goyim. And I have to always be on guard when I walk into my butcher store.

      But you know what. It sure beats eating treife chickens.

      Signed

      A Jew who takes nothing for granted somewhere in the Carolinas

    189. For all the people in this blog who are criticizing Litvishe vs Chasideshe please keep this in mind.

      If you ate the treif meat, in my humble opinion Hashem will judge us as trangressing be-onais (by accident). If you continue with the loshon horoh, motzei shem rah as illustrated by the many blogs above well,,,why don’t you fill in the blanks.

    190. I see that almost all monsey people were nichsel in eating trief based on the comments…it seems what goes in their mouth comes out of their mouth–all this loshen hara….

    191. Anon 119 or 1202,

      I am NOT frustrated in the least. I think you were wrong in saying “The state of Kashrus in USA is pathetic.”

      I would say that most people have no concept in reality and have no idea what really goes into making their food kosher.

      I should also point out that if all the non-chasidish hechsherim (meaning those who REALLY do the work!) go away, you will be starving in the streets in no time at all!

      I know.

    192. This morning in Satmar there was a letter from their dayen, rav Katz, stating the following:

      TREIF CHICKEN AND MEAT WAS SOLD BY THIS BUTCHER FOR A VERY LONG TIME, therefor, anyone who brought there IN THE PAST YEARS WAS PROBABLY NICHSHOL IN EATING TRIEF L”A!

      It is the first letter which actually attacks that butcher personally, and does not try to hide or make things look nice, as the other rabbanim did until now.

    193. BREAKING NEWS:

      Monsey Kosher Poultry Scandal Prompts Calls for Change

      Monsey, NY…The reaction to the discovery that a prominent glatt kosher butcher had fraudulently sold non-kosher (“treif”) poultry to unsuspecting consumers left the community in shock, but it also prompted calls for change by retailers from a number of leading rabbis. While rabbis were sorting out how this could have possibly happened, several repeated a call that was made after an episode of fraud in Flatbush, Brooklyn that called for on-site mashgichim (rabbinical supervisors) even in stores that are owned by Orthodox Jews. “With kosher grocers getting bigger all the time, the management can’t possibly police the preparation of all foods, particularly meats,” one Flatbush rabbi said. The rabbi said that after a Flatbush takeout store was found to have sold kosher meat that was not glatt kosher as glatt, several stores and restaurants took the step of hiring mashgichim despite the added expense. “What happened in Monsey,” said the rabbi, “is so much worse than the story with the takeout store in Flatbush.” The Monsey case revolved around Shevach Meats, the butcher who rents space from the Hatzlocho kosher supermarket. Sources say that Hatzlocho’s owners were in fact involved in uncovering the non-kosher poultry which had ostensibly come from Kiryas Joel, the Upstate New York Satmar community. The butcher was said to have bought poultry from Kiryas Joel in the past but subsequently ran up a huge outstanding debt, which sources say was probably why he “bought the treif meat off a truck.”

      The discovery of the fraud created havoc in the community. Hundreds of families were forced to eat dairy on Shabbat, waiting to learn how to kosher their kitchens. In shuls throughout Monsey, rabbis directed congregants on procedures for koshering their kitchens. Rabbi Shulem Nosson Spiegel of Congregation Tefillah L’Moshe organized a public koshering of pots and silverware in his shul. Electronic calls were made to Monsey residents in what some rabbis called “the worst kashrus scandal in their memories,” although several of the older rabbis recalled incidents of horsemeat being passed off as kosher and of non-kosher meat being served on a kosher cruise.

      The Monsey scandal is expected to have far-reaching implications on consumers who will no doubt seek additional assurances that such fraud will not be perpetrated in the future. A number of rabbinic groups are planning meetings to deal with reviewing standards for stores that package glatt kosher meats. One woman who was a frequent customer of Shevach said, “I had complained that the chickens were not as salty, which is what I am used to. At least now I know that the chickens were never kosher.”

    194. After reading almost 300 comments I see that only a few people have come to the root core of the problem.

      It is the heimishe sytem of relying on a “frum” person. They should hang up a sign saying “we testify that ploni is reliable”

      Only when they they follow the OK, OU, Kof K etc. where ONLY the mashgiach has the keys will the problem be solved.

      In this case the one in charge admitted that there was no mashgiach tmidi nor are there any mashgichim tmidim in ANY of his establishments.

      With all due respect we have seen from the Kehilla story what the lack of a mashgiach tmidi can cause.

      It is unfortunate that neither Kehilla nor the Heimishe hechsherim have learned from these mistakes.

      Yes anyone can make mistakes but at least have the gadlus hanfesh to learn from your mistakes.

      Kseeva vachaseema toiva.

    195. I was told that MF was thrown out from his shul when he came there to daven this past shabbes. (I only pity his wife and kids.)

      This morning Monsey was flooded with pashkavillen, which harshly accused MF, and that he has no place in Monsey any longer. It also demands the rabbanim do something concrete and stop dragging their feet.

      These leaflets probably helped “name the baby by his name”. People are fed up with all the nice guys who just want to wait until things calm down, and in the meanwhile they say we have to be dan lekaf z’chus; we need to hear from him; etc. If this will be allowed, those who are responsible will quickly find their way back into the community.

      Last, I want to ask people to ONLY POST FACTS AND NEW NEWS, please STOP posting MUSOR and drushos and opinions. People work and don’t have the time to read long repetitive posts.

      Thank you all!

    196. get a load of this:

      Yiddish mama is asking all to stop posting opinions, only facts.

      I can’t stop laughing.

      Nobody is holding a gun to your head, Yiddish mamma, making you read this blog!

    197. What a sad sad scandal. All the blogs in the world will not verbalize the real issue @ hand. GREED GREED money money!!!!!!!!!!! he did it for the money we are living in a society where it is never enough. This should be the begining of serious Chesban Hanefesh. Summer homes, fancy cars, etc .etc. One never heard scandals like this years ago. He must have been one desperate man

    198. 1:49 PM LOL, if I was really a modern orthodox woman I would know how to spell.

      That’s funny. Be careful, your prejudice is showing.

      However, you’ve got my attention now. Aside from the occasional double letter due to a touchy keyboard, please point out any grievous misspellings. Point out even one misspelling like those of the obviously ignorant posters who have not received a proper secular education and I will go cover my hair and renounce modern orthodoxy.

    199. Anon 220,

      what meeting of Monsey Rabbonim?Which Monsey Rabbonim are invited to this meeting? Can I expect to see the results of this meeting in tomorrow’s Hamodia or Journal News. In either case, I will purchase these papers tomorrow, that I would always shy away from in the past.

    200. modern orthodox; (or so you claim)
      line 4 you misspelled disappointed (you dropped a p), line 6 you dropped an e in divisiveness, line 7 you dropped an r in occurrence.
      need i go on.
      either you are not really m.o. or you were and i will see you tomorrow morning when i drop off my yinglach at satmar where you will be wearing a tichel, and tranferring your children if you are an honest m.o. that keeps her word.

    201. And whats with those BUMS from Kehilath Kashruth why didnt anyone curse them out they were also caught maybe not traif but not glat meat and they use to slam other hashguchis and thy acted as if it wasn’t there fault (this was in flatbush for those who dont remember)

    202. Some people posted on Sunday on this blog about a meeting of Monsey Rabbonim (one guy even wrote that their conclusion was that NO Traifah was sold!), so i’m waiting for the results of that meeting -if it ever took place-

    203. Att. Ms. Modern Orthodox

      Seems that you got your index slightly corrupted. Who sais one Mitzvah is more important than another. Tznius no, Kashrus yes? Let no one mislead you – Das Yehudis (hair covering, pants) is a VERY SERIOUS matter. Doing it publicly is making a statement. (How does secular education come in here)

    204. anonymous 2:49
      why did you need to point out to everybody that you would shy away from hamodia.
      nobody cares.
      but it made you feel good to say that you are more frum than other people.
      ok, now we know why there is a meat scandal in monsey, also known to those fortunate enough to live far outside it’s boundries as “ir-hasinas-chaim”.

    205. I’d like to add my comment and say that we should look at the root causes of how and why such a scandal can occur. There is tremendous pressure in our frum communities for families to have many children and the machmir lifestyles without realizing the consequences of such action. All these financial pressures eventually forces otherwise very pintlach yidden to do shtick with goverment programs and possibly genaiva in their business dealings. The number 1 sina that goyim complain about yidden is that they tend to be shady in their business dealings. Of course, the goyim are no better, but they have a taina that we should be on higher madraiga since we are the “chosen people”. The rabbonim are unfortunatly encouraging this on the average yid since the rabbonim themselves have the financial werewithal to conduct such an expensive lifestlye. They don’t realize how hard it is on a yid who have to struggle without doing the goverment and ganeiva rip-offs that they encourage…

    206. Re: “Pashkvillen”. In English it’s a pasquinade, or a pasquil. The word originated in Italian, where it had two versions, one with an ‘l’ and one with an ‘n’. Yiddish imported the ‘l’ version from Italian, while most English writers went with the ‘n’ version. Ivrit got it from Yiddish.

    207. anon 3:19,

      You took the words out of my mouth. We think alike. Hope to meet you at a simcha one day IY’H. I am happy someone out there thinks like me. Most intelligent post I noticed all day… which is at 322 and counting.

      We are going for a record no. of postings on this one.

      This should show all how critical and problematic the issue of Kashrus is today. Yet, nothing being done about it. TOOOOOOOOOOO much money to be made by all involved in this process.

    208. we are too busy running around looking for treife sheitels (remember that boondoggle????) and unfiltered water, yet eating McDonald’s type chicken!

      Something has to change. Perhaps the one who can come up with the much needed change should be nominated for the Nobel Prize, or what they have as a close equivalent in Israel – Templeton Prize.

    209. Aveiro goreres aveiro!

      I heard many many reliable stories how the bal hamachsher “ignored” problems (for years)or maybe according to his ‘shittah’ it was permissible to “overlook”.
      The outcome: Almost every yeshiva, catering and hall in Monsey might have used meat from MF at some point (even before shevach) with his hashgoch. Almost every commercial kitchen in Monsey might be ‘treifa’ hashem yirachem!
      So sad!
      Such damage!
      Guest from all over the world ate at these halls. Every “TYPE” of “JEW” ate here.
      We have to be “machmer” we have to be “very strict” if we don’t want to eat Treifa meat!
      The laws of Kosher meat/chicken is NOT the same like an OU or OK on potato chips!
      In this case, when the bal machsher “overlooked” we actually ate ‘treifa meat’ not only popcorn with a OU!
      In this case there was NO supervision at all!

      Get that straight!

      And don’t forget to enjoy your Wise Potato Chips!

    210. I think that the time has come that we all stand up and demand some changes. The rabunim are constantly giving us advice (which I gratefully accept) the time has now come for them to clean up their act.

    211. dear 3:54pm

      the answer is so simple.

      simplify.
      live simple.
      the less you have, the less things can go wrong.
      live honest.
      don’t buy things you won’t use.
      don’t keep things you should never have bought.
      give lots of tzedukah. it helps the giver and the receiver.
      go to a small shul.
      send your kids to small schools.
      only use mosdos that allow you to really participate, then you will know what’s going on.
      don’t accept anybody’s gadlus because everybody else says so, or because of their father or grandfather’s gadlus.
      live according to the shulchan aruch, no matter what everybody else does.
      don’t worry about other yidden or goyim that are dishonest, you are above dishonesty.
      live simple.
      be normal

    212. Anybody knows what the meeting with the rabbonim ended with?

      this questions was asked quite a few times on this blog and yet no answer.
      does anybody know whats going on???????

    213. now I know why this news wasn’t posted on this blog till Sunday, when it already happend last Thursday.
      Because it was affraid that the blog system wouldn’t be able to handle all those comments… were going to reach 400 soon and its only Tuesday! its like only 54 hours out on the blog!

    214. My Rav was at the meeting last night- he said he walked out because all that was done (to the point that he left) was a lot of name calling. No resolve at all.
      I know there are at least 2 rabanim giving specches tonight on this and what to so I will post that tomorrow- but for now, I have been told that the rabanim are saying that if you EVER bought meat/chicken from there you need to kasher everything.

    215. Although I haven’t seen the Psak that was issued today, I understand that all the Rabanim hold that all pots dishes & utensils must be Kashered regardless of how long ago the chickens or meat was purchased.

    216. Although I haven’t seen today’s Psak, I understand that all the Rabanim hold that all pots dishes & utensils must be Kashered regardless of how long ago the chickens or meat was purchased.

    217. you could say wathever you want but OU is the best hecher in the world no crooked rabbis and mashgichim all the mashgichim pas a test ,today in ny evry restaurant has a different hecher from a differnt rebbe this all buisness for this rebbes they have nothing to do with there time so they become rav hamachshir we should stop this its no joke instead being busy with the ‘sheitlech from india wake up rabby’s and smell the coffee

    218. Rabosai;
      Possibly you could help me with a shaila.
      Many neighbors, a few acquaintences, and a couple distant relatives have left our comfortable brooklyn. overpriced, small apartments, etc.
      they moved to monsey.

      my shaila; Why???????

    219. Before you post your messages, remember that none of you are “anonymous” to the Ribono Shel Oilem!

      כָּל הַמְחַלֵּל שֵׁם שָׁמַיִם בַּסֵּתֶר, נִפְרָעִין מִמֶּנּוּ בַגָּלוּי. אֶחָד שׁוֹגֵג וְאֶחָד מֵזִיד בְּחִלּוּל הַשֵּׁם

    220. maybe we should have rabunim from each community cheking up on the local stores and not to give hashguchis only to report problems to the public and the one who gives the hashgucha for that store

    221. to anon 4:41
      looks like you are full of anger and hate, keep it in yourself.
      stop blaming Rabbi’s and any other organization for no good reason that’s not the purpose of this blog

    222. the rabby who gave the hecher for this butcher is 100% responsible for all this he was supposed to check on this butcher atleast 1 week he is shaikets like the butcher who ever gives a hecher means that he takes responsebility on himself that its kosher

    223. Anonymous said…

      Att. Ms. Modern Orthodox

      Seems that you got your index slightly corrupted. Who sais one Mitzvah is more important than another. Tznius no, Kashrus yes? Let no one mislead you – Das Yehudis (hair covering, pants) is a VERY SERIOUS matter. Doing it publicly is making a statement. (How does secular education come in here)

      3:04 PM

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DAAS YEHUDIS.

      Why is it that the clothing that was worn by our wives and mothers when they were growing up is suddenly assur. why was it muttar then? did halacha change? or did we become crazier?

    224. hi. to all the big mavinim in kashrus.as a former mashgiach. i know too many stories about so calld chasidishe masgichim in the big world….& if you dont stop this nevale (litvish vs chasidim story)so please dont push…….

    225. doesnt matter if its litvish or chasidish there is bad apples evrywere we should all double check before we eat anywere even the baal hamachshir goes with with socks or a frak

    226. to: live simple 4:13 PM – except for way out of town, where can you find a small school for your kids, unless it just opened? And unless you know your shochet, how do you know if your meat is really kosher? You can live as simply as you want, but, as long as you’re in a mainstream town, you still have to send your kids to the local schools, and trust the local kashrus, and most places the mosdos become a hotbed of politics as soon as they are established, even in the simplest of communities.There are always those who want to be in control, even in a small autonomous mossod.

    227. To Anan 9:13 (sunday), I’m quoting your post:
      “THE MEETING BETWEEN ALL RABONIM IN MONSEY CHASIDISH AND LITVISH IS OVER THERE WILL BE LETTERS TOMORROW MORN. NOW JUST TO GIVE U A BRIEF GLIMPSE AS TO WHAT HAPPENED “THERE WAS NEVER ANY TRIEFE MEAT SOLD FROM HATZLOCHA” THE REST OF THE DETAILS WILL BE RELEASED TOMORROW”
      Sounds like you wished it should be so, but then when you realized that everybody says that it was indeed Traifah you just dissapeared! (can’t find posts with Caps anymore…)

    228. How much extra $ could he have made? lets say he sells 100 packeges of chicken a day for $3.oo each (2 pounds) since kosher meat retails for $1.50 a pound i would guess its $1 dollar a pound whoesale, and i cant imagine that non-kosher meat cost less then 50 cents a pound–that means instead of making $1 dollar profit per pack, he made $2 dollars–thats 100 extra dollars per day…..does it make any sence?

      By the way once I asked him what the best type of meat is– he told me he only likes chicken

    229. I never purchased meat at that store; he was too expensive; more then any other store in town.

      I can’t understand why this butcher could’nt at least pass on the savings to his customers? he must be a millionare! (0.69 a lbs. to $2.19 which he charged! what a chazer!)

    230. all the chasidim hate writers:

      Many chassidim have fs; they have large families and they truly ARE poor and eligible, at least as much as the blacks and Hispanics on welfare.
      There is less jail time and more government investigation on all your tax fraud, etc. Deal, NJ anyone? Shick?)

      The MAIN reason I can pay $150 is NOT the FS, but the LIFE STYLE! We DON’T HAVE THIS EXPENSIVE AMERICAN life style! A camp can be in an old building in Swan Lake, and doesn’t have to be an expensive $10,000 Colorado extravaganza.

      A wedding is kept simple; one man band, in many places no flowers, pictures, and the couple is just as happy.

      My friend with 11 kids makes bar mitzvah as a Kiddush in his shul. It cost him about $350 each… Not $35,000.

      A chassidish boy doesn’t know how to buy a soda; he drinks what he brought along from home. I always like to see these American guys and gals popping $175 for a coke and $1.25 for a wise, three times a day.

      Mistapek Bemiut is the KEY!

      NOT trying to assimilate and live INSIDE the American trifeh schmaltz tup, and have all the tavos which the goiym have!

    231. southernyid said…

      THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DAAS YEHUDIS.

      Why is it that the clothing that was worn by our wives and mothers when they were growing up is suddenly assur. why was it muttar then? did halacha change? or did we become crazier?

      A little MISHNE education (Kesubos 7:6) would suffice regading Das Yehudis. Follow up a little in Shulchan Aruch. Rgarding pants, if you heard the Torah reading this past Shabbos, you’d realize that too. (Lo silbash!) These things were NEVER muttar ‘by our wives and mothers’, and is still not. People moving away from Torah-true communities tend to let certain Mitzvohs fall away. Then keeping then seem crazy (‘or did we become crazier? ‘)

      Learn elementary Jewish Halachah (Kitzur Shulchan Aruch) before you decide what’s permitted & what’s not. (or maybe they don’t hold of it down south)

    232. rabosai maybe we should inspect our maasim maybe hashem is sending us a a signal something is not right in our community maybe its time to see that we are doing something wrong,lets not be haughty and say well we are not doing anything wrong,we are tzaddikkim no? its like a person dies people ask how did he die well some say he died of an accident some say he spit up the wrong pipe and it went down wrong some say he was burned by a perculator but the real answer should be he died cause the malach hamoves paid him a visit and the malach hamoves can not do something without hakodesh baruch hu giving the ok, rabbossai how many tradgedies and suffering are we going to have to go through how many fathers and mothers are going to have to rip out thier hair from their heads and sigh and moan why us why did it have to happen to our child how many buchirim are going to have to go through shiva medirei gehenom because the mechanchem and melamdem are abusing and trampling on our teenagers blood where is your yiddishe hartz where is your mercy twoards others are you so naive as to say eh me maint nisht mich burech hasem snisht geshen ba mir it happened somewhere else it happened in south america it happened in england thats 2500 miles away its never gonna happen here how many of us are going to have to recieve a sample of pain till we wake up and say u know u might be right maybe we should do something but then we start saying well whats there to do were baalei chesed were baalei tzedaka we learn or have shiurim during the day were doing better then we did in euriopw before the war where there was no yeshivos look everyone has a place to learn these days,everyone that needs warmth and encouragement well there are mechanchim and mechanchot so what can we do to change ourselves were perfect if there would be anything to do teshuva we would have done it already well teira broters and sisters lets do teshuva there are some points we should look at lets stop gossiping look shmerel did this yankel did that he made like this and he made like that lets stop looking into each others houses how dis person is mechanech his children how this person earns his living how that fellow has sholom bayos problems let everyone look into himself and let hashem worry about what aveiros the other person is doing ish al machnaie vish al diglo lets all be brothers like we are from one father nisht kan nafka mina if this jew is chasidish litvak mishichist he goes with a kapel without one hes davens or he doesnt can we really judge other people al tudin es chaveirei until u are in his shoes do we know what nisyonos the other person is going through do we know what a battle he has with the yetzer harah maybe his one tefillah that he davens on rosh hashana and he doesnt daven a whole year causes a furor in shamayim and opens the gates of heaven and his tefillah is more chusiver then the biggest tzaddik we know,do we know who is chosiver on that world maybe someone we know and think is a bum and shaygitz is in reality one of the 36 hidden tzadikkim it says in every dor and dor there are 36 hidden tzaddikkim rabossai wake up iri iri yeshaini hashem is lamenting and crying oy mein teira kinder when can i bring moshiach already when can i take my kinderlach out of galus oy rabossai its such a bittere golus even though it looks good because we think we live in a medina shel chesed rabossai its gehenom its golus do we need chas vchalila more incidents to prove were in golus were farteiben from our house from the beis habchira oy rabossai hashem is in the fields in chodesh elul he is crying and saying my sons come home look up and see me see who is helping you do we know how much it hurts hashem to have to give us a punishment to wake us up as much as we cry and scream aski9ng hashem rachmim hes crying even more saying kinderlach i love you so much i want to help you i want to make things easier on you i want to kiss you and glet you and that what hashem is doing were like small creatures on this world were tiny a little teshuva can go a long way in bringing moshiach tzidkainu lets all do just a little bit and with that little bit hashem will gather all our ;little bits and make it one big teshuva and leiz us out a kesiva vachsima tova un ah git gebentsht yur lomir zoiche zan to all be in yerushalaim an live to see the beis habchira amain kein yehi rutzoin

    233. To those who question my religious status based on my spelling errors (what one has to do with the other I’m not sure, but I’ll humor you.) I asked you to point out any grievous errors. I wuz tawking about spelingg misteaks liek thees, not mere typos such as dropping a letter here and there. I was talking about spelling erors that would portray my lack of secular education, should I be lacking one. And for those of you who will ask about that, a secular education is necessary because as much as some would like to segregate themselves from the world at large we all interact with it in one way or another and ned to be able to survive it.

      So, I’m very sorry but I won’t be mortgaging my house anytime soon to buy a sheitel or enrolling my children in Satmar yeshivas (not that they would accept my shkutzim if I tried.)

      Anon 3:04 who claims my index is corrupted; I have not polled every single jew who considers themselves frum, so I can’t say for sure, but I am fairly certain that a majority of the frum jews out there, regardless of their specific affiliations, consider Shabbos, Kosher and Taharas Hamishpacha to be the basic three tenets of our faith. I am not picking and choosing, those are supposedly the three pillars. The fact that one of those was violated in a widespread manner, completely against the community’s will and knowledge, is a very serious transgression and IMHO a lot worse than when someone decided to dress in what some consider a not tznius manner. That’s between them and god, this affected an entire community across the boards – I’ve purchased both meat and chicken at hatzlacha and until I discuss what I should do with my rabbi, I will be forced to eat out and hope the kosher establishments I visit are indeed kosher. Wait, I get to eat out and not cook? Maybe I never will talk to a Rabbi… but I digress.

      Once again we are missing the point, it’s not about what happened really. We can’t change the past. What we need to be thinking about and planning for is the future and how to make this right – use this terrible occurence as a lesson and start making changes so that this doesn’t happen again. Don’t ask me, I am fresh out of ideas which is why I am no Rabbi, oh yes also because I am a woman. For shame, for shame that I am even commenting on the whole matter!! Avert your eyes.

      As far as Daas Yehudis goes, I went to yeshivas for the first twelve years of my education. They were both Chassidishe and Litvishe yeshivos and I never heard this term. I will have to look into it and learn about it. That should keep me busy for a while and away from the craziness on this blog.

    234. anonymous 7:22pm
      you learned well from the rabonim how to through around alot of musar words but not say anything.
      i go blank after 30 seconds, it took me 10 minutes, with breaks to regain consciousness, to read a posting that said nothing

    235. anon 7:43
      how did you go to chasidish and litvish yeshivos if you are a woman?
      if you are a woman
      you should dress b’tznius.
      you should keep your word.
      who ever told you that the three groups of mitzvos you listed were sufficien lied to you.

    236. AHA! now I know where my timtum halev is coming from, its from the cheap chickens, i always thought its coming from the tumeneh internet, that was assured by all the monsey rabunnim. rabosai, this problem is not our problem, its our leaders. we cant do anything about this problem only one thing, shut our mouth. we cant live with our rabbunim and cant be without them, we are stuck with them.

    237. Spelling/Treifa

      I thought this blog was regarding the very serious subject of Treifas in Rockland County…

      But if you’re at it:

      Since when does only “Modern Orthodox” know how to spell?
      Oh, how many “Modern Orthodox” illiterate I know… (not everyone)

      Wow! Do I know many Chasiddisha educated frummies that are spelling pro’s!

      Some of the best writers are ultra chasiddisha people…

      No matter if you know no how two spel or not, you surley most du Teshuvah in order not two go too Gehennom!

    238. again, I sleep like a baby at night, nothin to worry about,
      the rabbunim are doin their job, if they mess up, let him come in my kitchen and kasher my pots and mouths. its HIS problem, shefeleh, seems like they have a special place in hell, i cant too in a life time so MANY aveiros, that a rabbi can do far a poor farshtinkene dollars. no one forced him to be a rabbi, i didnt see any one holding a gun to his head. burn baby burn.

    239. Is this true?

      I just heared that R’ Moshe Green got up and said that he is not qualified to speak since, although be’shogeg, there was a michshol that came out through his sons grocery, and therfore, disqualified himself to speak!

      What a kiddush Hashem!

    240. 7:22 said the first sensible thing i’ve read about this in a very long while.

      7:54 – ever heard of laitzonus?
      I will agree that with a lack of punctuation it is hard to understand what 7:22 said, but the gist of it is what’s important.

      I agree 100% – it’s time to do some soul searching.

    241. as someone just quoted that the past is over witch is true but as i saw someone else ask why can’t these rabunim think of preventing this in the future since it has happand TWICE

    242. Please: Let’s keep this to the MONSEY TREIF MEAT SCANDEL ONLY!!

      LET’S KEEP ALL PRIVATE DEBATE’S OFF THIS SITE!!

      ONLY FACTS and ONLY what is directly related to THIS scandel.

      Thank you!

    243. Regarding the latest “Gelui Das” ,does anyone have a P’sak regarding the time period that neccessitate Kashering. I.E. What is the earliest date that one purchased meat that require kashering :last week ? six month? or is there no time period and one is required to kasher his utensils even if one bought meat once, many years ago.

    244. 8:01 PM – I did not say those three were sufficient. I said they are the BASIC tenets of Judaism.

      And btw, girl’s schools are referred to as Yashivos as well.

    245. The Butcher Shop is as rotten as they come and should be hung up to dry but on the other hand the Rav hmachshir and masgichim know where their bread is buttered and will never report the truth if their”RABONIM” and “ROSHEI YESHIVA” tell them not to do (or do) something. Like that full page ad in HAMODIA CUURSING the people that would dare vote against a building variance that one their compadres “THE CHEDER” is going for..Well, I guess “DAAS TORAH” means whatever works for THEM…I’m not Chas Vesholom an Anti-Semite or Roshei Yeshiva hater, it just hurts that we don’t have any rolemodels for our children and grand children as the had in previous generations…very sad

    246. Subject: My analysis of the Monsey meat story!

      There’s not much SHEVACH to be said about SHEVACH meats these days.
      in fact I hear the grocery store they sell from is not having much HATZLOCHA either.
      The whole town would like to BUTCHER the owner.
      My feeling is he’s going to run out of town like a scared CHICKEN.

      there ya have it !

    247. if the rabonim will go more on internet this will never happend they think internet is only bad things because they only know bad things ashame on all this litvakes i would trust a kushi rather than a litvak

    248. I feel terrible to say this, but I feel that rabbi bresaluer should leave the kashrus business.
      I understand it was bshogeg, and he didn’t do anything per see wrong, al pi halacha, however, still something BIG happened under his hashgacha.
      I would think twice before I buy anything with his hechsher.
      Maybe we can make a poll to see what everyone says about it.

    249. I wonder if the only family in Monsey that for sure ate only kosher chicken or meat (and do not have to kosher their whole kitchen)is the Finkel family, I would bet that he brought home only the kosher stuff.

    250. Listen, this entire thing that happened might have very well been a framing by some other “frum” men who are for some reason angry at M.F. So, before we all believe, we better get the facts r-e-a-l straight.

    251. On a side note, I also have problems with the Hamodia’s “Daas Torah” and the outcry that made the poor neighbors look bad and evil. Just because school owners/rabbis want to build a school, why should neighbors suffer property value decrease and quality of life decrease. School buses and car pools all day are bad enough, BUT do you see what that little street looks like during a wedding?? The neighbors have rights also. Build somewhere else.

      On this story, let the daas torah come together as they did against the internet and stand up against non-kosher food in our houses as they did against internet.

      The Monsey Eruv and Monsey Mikva has great joint leadership and with it – it has all the stringencies of all opinions. Same here, apply all joint leadership with all chumrahs and make us all better off because of it.

    252. Framing?? Mr. Finkel himself admitted that he has been cheating (although he denies its treif). No there is no framing involved, yet there are always those conspiracy theorist about every story that hits the news.

    253. Where is the Rav of Monsey on this case ? How come the Rav,
      Rav Yisroel Dovid Schlesinger did not say anything? He is usually the first to comment on such issues? He did say don’t talk about it until the Rabbanim come out with a Psak,now that the Psak is here where is the Rav ?

    254. People here keep on pointing fingers and shouting here, and asking “why” and “how” and “why would Hashem make this happen.”

      Frankly, I have no idea. I’m not a navi by any stretch of the imagination.

      But I looked at the names involved, some of them who may otherwise be choshuve Yidden who did nothing wrong al pi din yet who have been implicated: Rav Bresslauer, Rav Moshe Green (whose children own Hatzlocha), Rabbis Wosner (who gives the hashgachah on the Atrium, which used this meat) and Zimmerman (where the butcher was a baal tefillah on Yomim Nora’im).

      I noticed that — earlier this year they all had a hand directly [signing letters or writing lengthy discourses] or less so [like lending their Shuls for a lynch-planning meeting] in publicy and maliciously defaming a person without allowing him due halachic process.

      Middah knegged middah? I’m not certain. Something for them — and all of us — to think about? Certainly, I think.

    255. Where is Rabbi Zimmerman? Why don’t we hear from him? When it comes to METZITZA BEPEH he gives a shiur in his Shul for the Rabbim. MACHULEI TREIFAS BEPEH he is QUIET????

    256. to:12:26 AM
      that’s y i might of 8-10 treif?
      i will say that r’s breslauer & green were made aware of someones accusations.
      children green 2 father rav green 2 rav breslauer 2 ulman.
      now its full circle.

    257. so I hear, I wish it weren’t true:
      (Almost)Every (so called) Kosher Catering Hall in Rockland County must kasher due to a treifa kitchen:
      Atrium
      Y.S.V
      Ateres Charna
      Bais Teffiloh
      Vein
      20 Ashel
      Glauber’s
      Shimanowits
      Bnei Ashkenaz
      & Much more…
      ALL must Kasher – So many people were nichshel, Very few can say that they NEVER ate at any hall that the kitchen became treif.

    258. Modern Orthodox – No need to defend your poor spelling, you did say you were yeshiva educated that in itself is explanation enough.

      as far as the people who pointed out your misspelling do they seriously think you’d start to cover your hair as if you made a neder or something ? at leastt I could read your posts some posts seem to be in a different language and take some serious decoding skills to decipher them.

      I do agree with you that those 3 things are the basic tenets of observing judiasm but having gone to yeshiva you know there is so much more to it. It’s a pity though that it makes a difference at all.

      Seeing as this is about kashrus, since you keep kosher this horrible event has as much to do with you as everyone else

    259. Yiddishe Mama – you keep going of topic yet you ask everyone to speak only of the hatzlacha situation?

      “The MAIN reason I can pay $150 is NOT the FS….. A camp can be in an old building in Swan Lake, and doesn’t have to be an expensive $10,000 Colorado extravaganza.”
      Unless you lived in swan lake last time I checked going to the mountains for the summer regardless of how materialistic you are costs a nice chunk of change so your comparison to a $10,000 camp is NOT valid – how many litvish or modern orthodox people do you know that do that anyway?

      My friend with 11 kids makes bar mitzvah as a Kiddush in his shul. It cost him about $350 each… Not $35,000. And how many people do you know spend $35,000 on a bar mitzvah?

      A chassidish boy doesn’t know how to buy a soda;” he drinks what he brought along from home.Knowing and choosing not to are completely different, ignorance is nothing to be proud of
      I always like to see these American guys and gals popping $175 for a coke and $1.25 for a wise, three times a day. Where to you spend you time to witness this? $1.75 for a coke and $1.25 for chips? you obviously are just throwing out thoughts without knowledge no one pays those prices unless you are in a hotel or amusement park

      BACK ON TOPIC – the Chasidish / Litvish debate although appropriate for some issues have nothing to do with this, Kosher is Kosher or as in this case Treif – we all MUST ask questions and should expect to receive answers but accusations are harmful and only add to the overwhelming sinas chinam that exists today so remember Veahavta Lerayacha Komocha RFB

    260. I wait & would like to see how this scandal will be blamed
      on the Internet very soon
      as everything in our days
      that the Leaders
      of our times cant take care of
      is blamed on

    261. anon 6:46. You missed my point.

      i am all for hilchos tznius and the issur of kli gever.

      I am saying that “daas yehudis” has replaced halacha with a bunch of chumras that were unheard of even 10 years ago. The clothing that our wives nad mothers wore to their bais yaakovs would be assur today because of daas yehudis but when they were in school and the standard was HALACHA it was fine.

    262. The best thing was in the “alte heim”, where one bought live chickens in the market and had them shechted by a shochet that one personally knew to be erliche, and then if there were any shailos on the chicken, you went to your rov to ask. I think that is the only way to be truly sure you’re getting kosher chicken.

    263. Questions:
      {1) Does Mohammed have to kasher his keilinm?

      (2) What is the history of Mr. Brelauer’s shul?

      (3) Which yeshivas did he learn in?Where does he have smicha from?

      (4) How could R’Yaakov Kaminetky make him Ruv of the shul? Was this the shul where Reb Yaakov davened? Isn’t Bais Tefiloh a yekkishe shul? Isn’t it more likely that it is just a story that Reb yaakov made him Ruv so it shouldn’t look like Mr. Breslauer wanted the job.

      (5) Mr. Breslauer is a yekke. he probably went to University. If he did which University did he go to?
      For the chareidim isn’t this another proof that University should be ossur?

      (6) Moshe Green is Pinky Green’s brother

      (7) Shlome Breslauer is Moshe Wolfson’s brother-in-law.

      (8) Rabbi Zimmerman of B’nei Ashkenaz fought a dirty war with KAJ of Monsey and he split the community in half before they paid him off and he left.

    264. everyone is all over the place
      getting away form the real issue
      quoting false information, for example the Atrium/Rabbi Wosner it just so happens to be that the atrium didnt let in shevach meats for eight years now,
      the truth of the matter is, we should reflect on ourselfs a bit more, how our lifestyles became so unconcious, whether its the clothing or food or bei adam l’chaveiro.
      stop blaming the Rabonim, and blame ourselfs. of course they have to take responsibility, but its not our place to advise or ridicule them, what are we doing about this besides for writing and reading comments on it. so before we suggest others what to do and how to do, what are we willing to do.

    265. To S.R. Hirsch – Watch it !!

      As my rov said last night, any one who ate the treif meats by accident still has a tikun and will get their olam haboh. However, those that criticize the rabbonim “Ein lo chelek leolam haboh”.

      Rabboisai – it’s chodesh ellul. Rosh Hashonnah is around the corner. Stob blaming the rabbonim and start looking at yourself. All the name calling and loshon horoh on this blog is outrageous and very damaging.

      Shloimah – I think you should remove the post from S.R. Hirsch at 10:07

    266. Not being a Monsey resident and not knowing any of the people involved, now that I am reading that there was a Din Torah between Hatzloche and Shevach and the Psak was not like Hatzloche would have liked; maybe it’s possible to say that Hatzloche was trying to frame Shevach Meats?

    267. R’ Zimmerman did in fact give a shiur last night in his shul for anyone who was interested in coming.. he covered all the different utensils and what one should do as far as kashering them.

    268. ***URGENT INFORMATION*** While this was being typed, a prominent Monsey Rov called me to please advise everyone that this store was delivering meats to the CATSKILLS / Bungalow Colony’s. Please check to make sure that you did not have these meats in your possession (You might have brought the Treifa Keilim back to your city homes!!)

      Please be advised that Shevach Meats LOST their Chezkas Kashruth (ALL CREDIBILITY) TEN YEARS AGO!! If you have EVER purchased meat or chicken from there in the last 10 years you must ask a Shaila immediately.

    269. This story happened we have to face fact. Hatzlocha didn’t lose the din torah Moshe Rusha did. Regarding it being Rabbi Breslauer’s fault maybe he should have been more ontop of things. but, if someone does not have yiras shamayim he should not be trusted with anything if he wants to trick the baal machsher he can no matter how strict he is. (he can put treif ingredients in kosher bottles) so next time you eat food look who the owner is and if you trust him you may check to see who the baal machsher is. Its time we learnt something from this terrible story. If you don’t trust the “OWNER” don’t eat his food.

    270. peices of todays Journal News:

      “The community is very upset,” said Yossi Weinberger, a Monsey resident who occasionally shops at the supermarket. “This is huge…. People are outraged.”

      Since the discovery last Wednesday, the store’s owners made phone calls to customers and posted fliers and posters inside and outside the store as well as around the community, warning customers of the non-kosher chicken packaged by Shevach Meats and asking them to throw it out or return it for a full refund.

      “Our job was to educate,” said Mordechai Grunsweig, co-owner of the 15-year-old store. “It’s more than a business practice. There’s religion involved here. We feel it’s our duty. We felt it was our obligation from a religious point of view.”

      Grunsweig said he discovered that the store’s usual distributor of kosher meats had not made a delivery, but Shevach, which slices and packages the meats for the supermarket, had stocked the shelves with non-kosher meats bearing kosher labels. Shevach rents space in a small building behind the supermarket. No one was in the butcher shop yesterday and no telephone number was listed.

      The store promptly ended ties with Shevach, which had done business with the store for more than a decade, Grunsweig said.

      “The entire community is affected by this,” he said. “The customers and the owners are victims of this situation. We go to great pains to keep kosher and adhere to kosher regulations. For something like this to be sold to the community is very, very painful.”

      The sale of non-kosher chicken has prompted an investigation by local rabbis and the state’s Department of Agriculture and Markets to find out how exactly this happened and for how long, Grunsweig said.

      Jessica A. Chittenden, a spokeswoman for the state agency, said the department quarantined 15 cases of the chicken Thursday and sent samples to be tested for salt, a key ingredient in koshering.

      “That may or may not tell us anything. The tough thing is you can’t test for kosher,” she said. “We’re trying to figure out who’s at fault and for what. We’re trying to gather all the information at this point.”

      The larger issue now is kashering the utensils Jews used to prepare the chicken — a process of purifying them by placing them in boiling water or subjecting them to intense heat. Grunsweig said over the weekend and yesterday people were allowed to bring their utensils to the supermarket and dip them in boiling water.

      Rabbi David Eidensohn, an Orthodox rabbi from Monsey, said keeping kosher was a way for Jews to feed their soul and get closer to God.

      “Everyone is quite terrified about it,” he said. “Those who have eaten non-kosher food feel they have damaged their souls. Non-kosher food is deleterious.”

      http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060906/NEWS03/609060329/1019/NEWS03&template=printart

      vin news
      vin pics

    271. (1) I spoke with someone who spoke with MF yesterday. It is unbelievable how he still denies. He claims that “it is not as bad as the street makes it”! (in the time that ALL of HIS rabbanim signed the letter that he sold trief probably years ago!)

      (2) Someone showed me a halacah in shilchun urich, as well as in the chofetz chaim, that it is permitted to spread the word and go after a machil triefes and machtie es hurabim.

      (3) Beis Tefilah will kasher free of charge at YSV this Sunday. Does that mean that until Sunday it is the 9 days?

      (4)Does anyone know if the state is trully investigating? (someone posted it was a private investigator which came up with the WS story.) Did MF hire an attourney? is he on suicide watch? Who don’t the general media report of this?

      (5) Finnaly: I always wondered at the modern orthodox, how come they openly step on most tznius halachas, which are in the same shilchun urich as other halacha? Are they like liberal jews who just don’t think certain halachah applies these days? (open hair, no socks, non tznius dress.)

    272. I think we should stop spending
      so much time reading this blog (me included) and go do constructive tshuva and davening for a gut gebentcht yohr for klal yisroel!
      Don’t let the satan distract us
      in this critical period of elul!

    273. Dear Yiddishe Mama,

      What about when the kitzur says about no lashen horah? Or when gite heimishe vaber look down at others not dressed like them and smirk at them is that correct??? I would rather not wear the socks but have good middos!!! Bad middos and uncaring but wearing those seams is 100x worse then NOT wearing socks or short sleeves!!

    274. All i can say about this, that this is could happen anywere,
      lets not forget hechsheirim is a
      BUISSNES today.
      the only place this would not happen is with rav Landau’s hechsher in bnei brak by rav Landau there is no second chance, and he is not monney minded as all the other rabonim..

    275. Yiddishe Mamma….How about no stealing? I believe it is Min Hatorah? It might even mean stealing from the government? Taxes, Section 8.

      You said: 5) Finnaly: I always wondered at the modern orthodox, how come they openly step on most tznius halachas, which are in the same shilchun urich as other halacha? Are they like liberal jews who just don’t think certain halachah applies these days? (open hair, no socks, non tznius dress.)

      These are all minhagim. You learned a fancy word “liberal” and you wanted to use it?

    276. I’M NOT RELIGIOUS-but i read what was going on here because a friend told me about it.I think as religious jews,you should be ashamed of yourselves how you openly disgrace your rabbis and preachers.One blog worse than the next.Ask yourself this question-Do you want god speaking the same way about you on the day of atonement?

    277. to: 10:30
      As my rov said last night, any one who ate the treif meats by accident still has a tikun and will get their olam haboh. However, those that criticize the rabbonim “Ein lo chelek leolam haboh”.

      1] who is your rov?
      2]criticize
      what is the hebrew/Aramaic word so we can look it up.

      the critique seem to be incompetence
      covered in a veneer of kovod hatorah.

      when moshe rabeinu was falsely attacked by korach,he negotiated , went to see them, even forgave personal attacks up to the point of ‘lo naala.”
      monsey is hurting.
      people that visited monsey are crying.
      whose talking to them?
      nobody.
      your rov is busy with his understanding of talmind chacham etc.
      we’ll try this on for size.
      there is almost no talmid chacham today that has the protection the torah gives a talmid chacham.
      what you have is rabenu yona that as a result of bizu assumed talmid chacham you also lose your chalek lolam haba.
      you know why ?
      because maybe a father will hold back his son from becoming a talmid chacham because he sees their standing in the community.
      which rule is your rov applying?
      all this from a
      shiur that i had with a chavrusa.
      are you allowed to say your son’s rebbe is no good?
      do you have to sit thru a shiur of unprepared rabanim?
      we live in a time that we always need an expert to tell us what to do.
      so you develop a market of self proclaimed experts.
      monsey has one of the biggest fraudulent experts ,no one cares to expose.
      the rabanim are aware of the accusations,each one looks at the other ,not to have to get involved.
      all of sudden now you have rabanim kol korais etc.

    278. At last i figured it out, the source of my insomia, sleepless nights. Why did I have to spend my hard earned gelt, on these chickens, I could have shopped at Pathmark, and gotten the same chickens, for a better price, and service.
      Its like crying on spilled milk.
      oh no, milk and chickens, is it a d’oirisa.

    279. Be dan lkaf zchus Harav Moshe Finkel. He has done so much for Chinuch in Monsey (YSV, Bais Shraga).

      It’s his wife and her father Reb Chaim Goldvasser who were pressuring him to live such a lifestyle.

      Rak ain Yiraas Hashem Bamakom Hazeh.

    280. MAY I THINK OUT LOUD HOW MUCH WOUULD A HEIMESH PERSON WANT TO BE PAID TO BE PUT IN THIS FELLOWS SHOES THE OWNER OF SHEVACH MEAT? i guess not for al the money in the world,only. because itthe news was uncoveredin the last few days. can we think what we will all feel like after 120 in baes din shal malleh, when all our ummm,will be uncovered??? i guess alul is a good time to think about it

    281. How did I know this was coming?

      Whenever you ask in these crowd about such open disregard for HALACAH (NOT minhag! It is in the same “Shilchun Urech” as the dinim of kashras.) the answer will always be: L”H, Midos and so on.

      That is exactly what I said, just like the liberal or conservative Jews say: They just take it a stop further with driving on shabbes, etc.

      So let’s say that Chassidim speak more L”H and have worse midos. (the second is probably not the case: Chassidish girls and woman keep a lower profile and are not such spoiled brats with such strong opinions.) Does THAT give a heter for a modern orthodox to transgress one of the most important mitzvos in the torah, which rashi says that this was one of the three things they jews in Egypt kept up? What does one have to do with the other?

      And how does sec 8 or FS allow your married woman and big girls to go shopping barefoot, which is a gross violation of the halacah (NOT minhug)? Say what you want, most large chassidish families do live very poor and are %100 eligible for this federal program.

    282. Some do believe that he did not actually go out and shop treif meat, but rather that he was mikel, and being pressed finantially he recently changed lables and similer tricks, which (he admits) ultimately led to this terrible michshol.

      This led to the rabbanim to pasken that he lost his cheskas kashres. I am not sure what to think?

    283. yiddish mamma – spoiled brats with strong opinions, huh? Since when is a woman/girl with an opinion and the freedom to express it a spoiled brat? If that is in fact true I would rather be a “spoiled brat” than not any day.

      That said, why does this have to be about modern orthodox, chassidish or litvish superiority? Who says any group actually is superior? The only one who knows is G-d and last I checked he was not weighing in on any blogs.

      This is about non-kosher chickens, not who’s feet are covered and with what. For a big talker about everyone else’s shortcomings, you show an appalling lack of ahavas yisrael. Just my opinion, and this spoiled brat is entitled to it and will express it.

    284. “I’M NOT RELIGIOUS” Lately a lot of the bloggers are writing such HEADLINES or: IM NOT JEWISH. Please stop this entire BS its absolute Garbage. Who ever writes here is frum and religious we can proof it.
      How about me writing: “I’M NOT WRITING HERE IM JUST …………… SPEAKING AND U CASN SEE …………”IM NOT IN THIS WORLD IM IN GAN DEN AVROHOM AVENIU IN THE NEX ROOM AND HASHEM TOLD ME TO WRITE ON THIS BLOG THAT HE LOVES IT…………..

    285. Moiche for Reb Breslauer?
      Why doesn’t he get up and ask mechila from all of Monsey and all yidden who have passed through Monsey and ate treifos?
      Why doesn’t he resign?
      Big talmid chochom? Big deal! There are big talmidei chachomin who are not shomer shabbos. There are talmidei chachomim who are professors in Universities.
      For you yekkes out there , do you always say nice things about chassiddisher rebbes? or are you holier-than-thou? Aren’t they talmidei chachomim and tzaddikim? You don’t have a problem criticizing chassidim for not davening with rabbeinu tam zman. etc. etc. Your ruv, screwed up big time. He is a money grubber like the chassidim you hate and he doesn’t even have the decency to commit hara-kiri like a Japanese samurai.

      http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/133350.html

    286. I am totally shocked at what I am reading here. I am very close with the Finkel’s and with one of the Dayanim that paskin’d here. What happened is a terrible thing, but to start spreading rumors and saying R’ Breslauer is not a choshiv yid and not erlich- CHAS V’SHALOM!!! He may not be your Rav- which is fine- but he is a very prominent Rav in Monsey. HaMivazeh Es HaTalmid Chochom- Ain Lo Chalek L’Olam Haba!!!!!
      And to spread rumors about Mrs. Finkel and her father- that they wanted him to live this lifestyle?!?! How can people be so stupid and say things like this- if you don’t know the facts then just be quiet.
      Why did this have to become a debate who’s better-Litvaks, Yekkies, Chasidim….I DON’T GET IT!!
      Don’t you think Hashem is testing us to see how we react- do you think this is the proper way?!
      Just remember it’s Erev Rosh Hashana.

    287. i agree, this was over done. No need to go that way!

      However, the faster MF comes out and says the whole truth and fully cooperates, the better for him and everyone.

      He is finnished in monsey and even NY. he should probably go live in S America or another place, as the halacha paskens is the din with such a person. (he should go to a place where people don’t know him…..and….)

      >And to spread rumors about Mrs. Finkel and her father- that they wanted him to live this lifestyle?!?! How can people be so stupid and say things like this- if you don’t know the facts then just be quiet.

    288. 5) Finnaly: I always wondered at the modern orthodox, how come they openly step on most tznius halachas, which are in the same shilchun urich as other halacha? Are they like liberal jews who just don’t think certain halachah applies these days? (open hair, no socks, non tznius dress.)
      ———–
      I always wondered at the Yeshivishe people, how come how come they openly step on most bein adam l’chaveiroh halachas (lack of manners, gossiping) and fraud in general (taxes, section 8, food stamps), which are in the same shilchun urich as other halacha? Are they like liberal jews who just don’t think certain halachah applies these days?

    289. Listen, I am from Toronto, and we have a lot of respect for our Rabbonim.
      Nobody is perfect,and one now has a chance to Dan lcaf zchus, so try to judge it properly.

    290. The world is so crazy today maybe we should start raising our own chickens & cows and planting our fruits and veg. just like they did in the alte heim. I think I’m going to take lessons to become a shochet. It seems to be the only way to keep kosher.

      How is MF doing? is he still hanging around locally? did any of you get a chance to spit in his face yet? What does he say to the whole story?

    291. The chutzpah, Azus and plain Am Haratzus against Rabbanim mentioned here in this blog is unbelievable. When all is said and done, IF guilty, the butcher should be put in Cheirem – real Cheirem, blowing Shofar and all – in public – at a major Asifa, then you will know he was really guilty and your local rabbi can tell you whether or not you can beat him up as well (halacha – poigim boi). To bad-mouth Rabbanim in general and especially by name is not what ehrliche yidden due, ever.
      Doing so shows everyone else the low life person YOU are – not any better perhaps than the “kosher chazir fissel”. You may look jewish, act jewish but you don’t behave jewish – a kosher chazir fissel.
      Moshe kibel Torah m’Sinai umesorah l’Yehoshua, v’Yehosha l’Zekaynim etc. Rabbanim who have been ordained by previous generations gedolim is precisely that Mesorah, from Moshe Rabbeinu (Sinai) to today. Anyone who doesn’t like the psak of a particular Rov can daven elsewhere OR MOVE OUT OF TOWN. No one is forcing you to stay in Monsey. It would be a real eye-opener to identify which Yeshivos/Rebbes all the outspoken anti-semitten here have been brought up under. Your leadership will NOT endorse any negative statements blasted here so obviously they are just diahrea from your mouths.
      I hope never to meet any of you in a traffic jam since the “road-rage” you posses on the information super-highway is downright murderous.
      Remember my friends (not my friends) you will have to take back everything you said about the Rabbanim or some G-dly wrath will ultimately do you justice. Hashem Yerachem.
      I have previously stood up for the kavod of Rav Bresslauer shlit”a and continue to do so until ALL the Rabbanim that signed the Kol Koreh were to make one against him. I ain’t happening my friends.
      And in case you want to know, no I don’t think that I’m a tzaddik. I don’t usually go around thinking or saying that “I’m better than you” but right here I will say it. I am above all this – I AM better than you. I know why my Bubbah’s and Zayda’s gave their lives Al Kiddush Hashem 65 years ago and through the ages. It wasn’t because “we” bashmutz our Rabbanim.
      We have been taught in Yeshiva NOT to bashmutz Acheinu bnei Yisrael no matter how different we are or seem to be. When a person is born (yelud Isha) he is “naakit”, when he dies he gets plain Tachrichin – all of us no matter what you wore when alive, Rashvulke, tish chalet’l, bek, frock, short jacket – with a Gartel, uhn di Gartel, no jacket, we all are born and die the same. A beard, a shtreimel, OBVIOUSLY does not make one a better person as is evidenced by the comments in this blog. Eating treife is terrible – absolutely terrible. No one should ever be TESTED like that, chas v’shololm, but the way some yidden opened their mouths here is disgusting. The diareah will bashmutz YOU.

    292. After 437 comments posted on this issue, I can’t even begin to imagine what new chiddushim anybody could possibly lend to this matter. SO let us be mature adults (?) and end the blogging on this and move on to other matters.

      For instance, what about those who double park on busy streets in BP not caring one iota about the next person????????????? Bain Adom L’Chaveiro. WHere has that gone?

    293. We should be Dan LeKaf Zechus if he admits that something went wrong, but if he tries to cover up as much of the scandal as he can (ככלב שב על קיאו), then we should uncover the whole Sheigatz Shtick!!!

    294. Yiddishe Mama:

      This reinforces my point.

      (5) Finnaly: I always wondered at the modern orthodox, how come they openly step on most tznius halachas, which are in the same shilchun urich as other halacha? Are they like liberal jews who just don’t think certain halachah applies these days? (open hair, no socks, non tznius dress.)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      By equating not wearing socks to not covering your hair you are causing great harm to the standards of halacha. This is a classsic example of kol hamoseef goreah. Married women must cover their hair, and although wearing open toed shoes with 4″ heels and having your toenails painted flaming red can certainly be seen as pritzus, wearing socks is not a halachik requirement.

    295. here is todays Jewish Press Article

      A Monsey butcher who sublets space from a local grocery/supermarket has been found to have been selling non-kosher poultry as strictly kosher. Shevach Meats apparently would sell chickens from Vineland and KJ and repackage them under its own label. Recently, customers had noticed a difference in the chickens — the color was different and the meat didn’t taste as salty (salting is part of the process of koshering). When the owner was notified he reportedly told customers a low-sodium salt was used.

      A few days ago, the owner of Hatzlocha Grocery, the store that rented space to Shevach Meats, was told by a meat manager from Kiryas Joel that they were no longer supplying chicken to Shevach. Yet the owner has seen fresh chickens with labels identifying them as Kiryas Joel poultry. Shevach’s owner insisted he received them from another distributor.

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      There was enough suspicion to call in the rav who’d given Shevach Meats its hashgacha. The stock was checked and found to be unosher. Among the reasons given where that the chicken still had intact kidneys (when chickens are koshered all internal organs are removed), and there was no marking or plumba, which all kosher chickens have. There was also the issue of the color and the lack of salt taste.

      As reported on the popular Yeshiva World blog (www.theyeshivaworld.com), a group of respected rabbonim issued the following ruling on Tuesday:

      1) It is prohibited to eat all meat and chicken which was sold by Shevach Meats. This includes what was sold to catering halls and meats that were sold to/from Hatzlocha Grocery. This includes chicken and meat, from all hechsharim; except for meats which were sold in the original packaging, which have their original stamps and seals on them.

      2) You (customers who purchased items from Shevach Meats) must kasher keilim (pots and pans) which were used.

      3) Regarding which keilim must be kashered: Each person should speak to his individual rav for a p’sak.

    296. It is a great honor and pleasure for me that i have an opportunity to pose a question to so many highly educated, well-credentialed, and well-connected elite.

      I will be attending a wedding(not as a singer) tonite in monsey (vishnitz hall), i have a sneaky suspicion that they might serve sushi, can any of you describe how kosher sushi tastes?

      is it salty?

      is it hairy or smooth?

    297. People claim that the halachic issues are based on a machlokes between the Shach and the Taz. Can someone please give the exact maarei mekomos (source references)?

    298. You did not post the entire Jewish Article entirely.
      Here it is:

      A Monsey butcher who sublets space from a local grocery/supermarket has been found to have been selling non-kosher poultry as strictly kosher. Shevach Meats apparently would sell chickens from Vineland and KJ and repackage them under its own label. Recently, customers had noticed a difference in the chickens — the color was different and the meat didn’t taste as salty (salting is part of the process of koshering). When the owner was notified he reportedly told customers a low-sodium salt was used.

      A few days ago, the owner of Hatzlocha Grocery, the store that rented space to Shevach Meats, was told by a meat manager from Kiryas Joel that they were no longer supplying chicken to Shevach. Yet the owner has seen fresh chickens with labels identifying them as Kiryas Joel poultry. Shevach’s owner insisted he received them from another distributor.

      There was enough suspicion to call in the rav who’d given Shevach Meats its hashgacha. The stock was checked and found to be unosher. Among the reasons given where that the chicken still had intact kidneys (when chickens are koshered all internal organs are removed), and there was no marking or plumba, which all kosher chickens have. There was also the issue of the color and the lack of salt taste.

      As reported on the popular Yeshiva World blog (www.theyeshivaworld.com), a group of respected rabbonim issued the following ruling on Tuesday:

      1) It is prohibited to eat all meat and chicken which was sold by Shevach Meats. This includes what was sold to catering halls and meats that were sold to/from Hatzlocha Grocery. This includes chicken and meat, from all hechsharim; except for meats which were sold in the original packaging, which have their original stamps and seals on them.

      2) You (customers who purchased items from Shevach Meats) must kasher keilim (pots and pans) which were used.

      3) Regarding which keilim must be kashered: Each person should speak to his individual rav for a p’sak.

    299. The rabbunim have to bring in a good public relations firm, to fix this mess. We need “Damage Control”
      Tovo eimo vatekanech tzoas benuh.

      Seems like to be a rabbi and to be a Baal Machshir, is two different things. will I fly on a plane, that is piloted by a rabbi.
      he is a rabbi and not a pilot.
      so why would I eat food that the Baal Machshir sits at home, and shokeled zich oif a reb chaim.
      must be because if a person eats treifa, he wont drop dead right away.

    300. 1-At today’s meeting of the raabunim, it was decided that its ossur 2
      eat any meats or poultry bought @ shevach or eat @ a catered event
      supplied by shevach. This includes all hashgochos. Excluding original
      sealed & packaged products from other manufacturers.

      2- all utensils used @ home that cooked shevach products must be
      kashered

      3-as per which utensils @ home need 2b kashered, consult your own local
      rabbi

    301. i have a new Segulah for my wife, it will work better, than perek shira, or shir hashirim or lighting two candles every day.

      she should start eating only kosher food for forty days.

      where are the charlatans, mekubalim, kesuba readers, mezua readers, hand readers. how come they didnt see what’s going on here in monsey.

    302. I still would stand up for any Rov.
      There is a famous story with the M’Gala Amukos, where Treif was sold for years until the shochet admitted. It also had a hechsher,but at the end of the day,they served ,nveilus,treifus,cheleiv and what not.This just goes to show you how hard it is.
      I do not know any Rabbonim from Monsey,but the comments against them are wrong.
      I am not perfect and I amsure you are not.
      Did you ever speak Lashon Harah?
      (From Toronto)

    303. The bottom line is that unless you rely on the Shomer Torah Umitzvos owner — which is perfectly halachically acceptable — you’d need a staff of full-time mashgichim in every store. Checking to make sure that there are no off-site freezers, that no on is carring in a case of chickens from the trunk of a car instead of from the fridge [or that they aren’t carrying it in while the mashgiach is someone else access to the fridge]. Audting supplies vs. sales. And so on.

      Every hashgachah has had some sort of problems. Most of the time it involved a halchically unacceptable problem (inadequately checking the processes or facilities), rather than being misled by someone who was (at the time) halachically trustworthy.

      There’s a saying that locks only help protect against honest people. This hashgachah appears to have be halachically adequte.

    304. Here is the P’sak Halacha which was issued a short while ago to all those who have purchased meat or chicken from Shevach Meats which is located in Hatzlocha Grocery:

      1) “It is Asur to eat and meat which was sold by Shevach Meats. This includes what was sold to Catering Halls & meats that were sold to/from Hatzlocha Grocery. (THIS TRAGIC STORY HAS NO CONNECTION TO THE OWNERS OF HATZLOCHA GROCERY WHATSOEVER!!!!) This includes Chicken AND meat, from ALL Hechsharim; except for meats which were sold in THE ORIGINAL PACKAGING – AND have their original stamps and seals on them.

      2) You must KASHER Keilim which were used.

      3) Regarding which Keilim must be Kashered: Each person should speak to their individual Rov for a P’sak. What one should do in order to be Mechaper for this, each person should speak to their own Rov.

      ***URGENT INFORMATION*** While this was being typed, a prominent Monsey Rov called me to please advise everyone that this store was delivering meats to the CATSKILLS / Bungalow Colony’s. Please check to make sure that you did not have these meats in your possession (You might have brought the Treifa Keilim back to your city homes!!)

      Please be advised that Shevach Meats LOST their Chezkas Kashruth (ALL CREDIBILITY) TEN YEARS AGO!! If you have EVER purchased meat or chicken from there in the last 10 years you must ask a Shaila immediately.

    305. anon from Toronto 3:28
      You are not perfect neither are the rabbonim. When you are not perfect, they will get up and say a mussar shmooz or Shabbos Shuva drosha. When they are not perfect people, we have to give droshos. The Jewish religion is not a top-down religion like the Catholic church. We do not have a pope, we are allowed to criticize if the rabbonim are wrong. We are allowed to remove them. In Europe rabbonim were fired.
      How do you think the maskilishe rabbonim looked in Europe, beard and peyos even in Lita.

      If Rabbi Breslauer was negligent he should be taken to task. He is not infallible only the pope is infallible.

      Korach was also an ehrliche yid with Beard and peyos.

      Breslauer do the right thing.

      Apologize to the people of Monsey.

      Resign your position and go into golus.

      Do tshuva and ask mechila from the Ribono shel Olam.

      On your watch Monsey ate treif.

      Hundreds of thousands of dollars maybe millions of dollars will be spent due to your negligence.

      Have you no shame?

      If you give up youtr hasgacha business and your rabbonus, then we will know that you are an ehrliche yid.

      If the Rav hamachshir would have been Moshe Tendler then everyone would be screaming for his head. You guys are just protecting Breslauer bacause he is one of yours- a chareidi.

      Hypocrites!

    306. I agree with 1;57 PM POST. I protest against those bashmutzing Rabbi Breslauer. He is Godol ve Kodosh.I happened to know him personally for at least 10 years. And still, when we were making a simcha in a school whose kitchen ha Rav supervises (and which no baal simcha may use), after giving us Mazel Tov and brochos he walked straight to the kitchen to make sure it’s not being used for warming up our kugels! And all those motzi shem ra speakers over here – do tshuvo before Yom ha din, have rachmonus on your families, your wifes and husbands and innocent kinderlach – they shouln’t suffer for your terrible aveiro!!!!

    307. and what about rabbi zimmemann?
      with all due respect for all the rabunim.
      i dont understand him.
      how come this nevyleh M.F. was still BAAL KOIREH this last shabos

      I CALL ON ALL OF MONSEY TO COME VISIT THIS CONGREGATION AND MAKE SURE THAT HE IS NO MORE BAAL KOIREH.

    308. Lost their Chezkas Kashrus 10 years ago??!! But what about any Hashgocho during that time? Isn’t the purpose of a Hshgocho to ‘add value’ over and beyond the standard Chezkas Kashrus which every Eid Echad has for Issurin? Seemingly whatever Hashgocho was overseeing the Shevach Meat operation (if any?) was simply relying on the same Chezkas Kashrus we all could rely on without the Hashgocho in place at all? So what benefit is such a Hashgocho adding for the end-consumer? Or was Shevach operating all this time without any Hashgocho whatsoever?

      I’d like to have this clarified. Depending on whether or not Shevach was operating under a Hashgocho we either need to see a tightening of consumer practices (don’t patronize repackers who don’t have a Hashgocho) or we need to see a tightening of Hashgocho procedures (tighter control of inventory for repackers, beyond simply trusting them under the principle of Eid Echad Ne’eman).

    309. Just curious, mr. hoity-toity-mechtzaf “s.r.hirsch”: Which hashgachah that you know, that had a michshol, put itself out of business? Even if the micshol was the result of never properly checking a plant or a process?

      From the facts presented, even assuming that the assertions are true (although many of them demonstrably are not) Rav Breslauer did nothing that was irresposible from a halachic perspective.

      That’s not to say that no one need to do some soul-searching. But even knowing my own many faults, I must admit that you’re way ahead of me on the need to search yours.

      I think hagalah on your hands and mouth followed by libun gamur on your kishka and liver is appropriate.

    310. I heared that according to a lot of accounts Rabbi Moshe Green was made aware in the past about possible problems at the butcher department at his son store. Yet, he did nothing! Why is this ok? Why is this being shoved aside?

    311. This is in response to those speaking against Rabbi Breslauer.
      There is a Shulchan Aruch.
      There is a Din of Chazakah
      When people go against Chazaka, it is a problem with the person, not on the Halacha of Chazaka
      All Hashgachos, including Chasiddish or otherwise rely on Chezkas Kashrus to give Hashgocho.
      The Rav relied on Chazakah, and was allowed to Al Pi Din, and was no less vigilant than any other would be.
      Those in the know concluded that the scam was done in a way that it was undetectable by Mashgichim.
      To suggest that the Rav Hamachshir needs to apologize is ridiculous.

    312. Why am I a mechutzaf?
      My sins are my own.
      I did not take money for hasgacha and allowed all Monsey to eat treif.
      If a doctor messes up you sue for malpractice.
      If the rabbi messes up ,he is a kodosh v’tohor?
      Are Roshei yeshiva who allow molesters kodosh v’tohor?
      Rebbeim who verbally abuse talmidim, kodosh v’tohor?
      Rebbes who go to courts, kodosh v’tohor?
      A week ago. MF was an ehrliche yid, now he is a goy gomur.
      It is easier to be boidek behaimos than to be boidek rabbonim.
      Wake up! Zey nit kein naar!

    313. “s.r.” — you’re worse off than i thought.

      There is a shulchan aruch. You can’t learn it in a few minutes, and your can’t learn it on a blog. There are halachos that dicate Jewish life and Jewish law. Learn them and you might understand.

      Until then, go kasher yourself oer the instructions provided earlier

    314. this is total Sh… i cant believe this, my Rov just told my husband, that all my nice expensive china dishes, have to be discarded and i cant use them, and not even sell them..’

      this is crazy, could we schedule a protest this Shabbos in front of M.F’s house, and maybe even make a good mshkanto on him

    315. Atzeres Hisorerois –
      In Satmer Beis Medrash in Monsey 8pm tonite…

      If you go, you might find out how to do ‘teshuva’! (Yes everyone must do teshuvah on this horrible aveirah – even if it was only a peice of kugel from the treifa kitchen at a simcha)

      Dirty talk is NOT teshuva!

      Hopefully this will NEVER happen again, because part of doing teshuva properly is to make sure to be more careful in the future…

      The Rabboinm know this and lets hope that they will help us do teshuvah…
      Lets hope they will make sure that we can rely on them, that food is completely kosher…
      Lets daven for kosher food and for a Kosher New Year!

    316. Anon 4:41pm above

      I also heard the same rumors about R’ Moshe Green.
      There are signs up today in Monsey that he is going to hold a missar drusha today. I wonder if he is going to say Chutusy, Uvesy, U’poshaty that I didn’t do anything about it. That a michshol beshoigeg came out through myself and my sons. Or, he is going to say you lemmings have to do teshuva because of the Internet, pertzos, etc.

    317. RE: 4:56PM
      –The Rav relied on Chazakah, and was allowed to Al Pi Din, and was no less vigilant than any other would be.–

      Well, and when the Rav was approached with many many complaints, many many times from many many different people, (customers as well as people behind the scene) may he still rely on the above din?

      Can he just sa “OK, OK It was a mistake, I’ll look into it? Didn’t he smell something terrible after so many complaints???

      (I know someone who approached the Rav and notified him on RE-packaging / RE labeling 3 yrs ago, the rav answered “It was a mistake!)

      Where was Green (Hatzlocho?) People were complaining about less salty for a while, did they just ignore it for so long?

    318. To suri: and if rabbi Breslauer doesn’t pay it send it to rabbi Green who has a partnership in Hatzlucha and heard complaints before about the butcher and did zilch about it.

    319. to: suri 5:12 PM
      your either a liar or your rov is an am haaretz.
      china is a klei slishi.
      you don’t put expensive china in a microwave.
      if that don’t work put in a self cleaning oven fo 2 hrs. before you dispose it.

    320. all the rabonim are groise tsadikim till it comes to money they could say make teshuva no internet no this no that but when it comes to help all this familys who have to trow out thousands of dollars worth of dishes and kitchenware they dont say nothing why dont they open a gemach to help all this people who cant afford new kitchenware ashame on all this rabonim

    321. Maybe there ‘will’ be a gemach??

      For the time being, why don’t you use paper/plastic dishes?

      I feel so bad for all those people who have to re-do their kichens, buy new gas/oven – sink – dishwasher- countertops- dishes ….
      How about Pesach dishes? If someone shopped at Shevach then, is it also treifa?

      I feel horrible for myself because I’m sure that at some point I ‘did’ eat at a hall with a question! But for all those needing to spend all the money! I’m sure this is part of the teshuvah! Thay might have an easier time doing teshuvah than myself!

    322. Not all rabbonim are telling their baal habatim to throw away dishes.

      Rabbi Bentzion Wosner is telling everyone to kasher dishes 3 times with hagoloh.

      A Rov in New Hemsptead is telling his baal habatim to put their dishes away for 1 year, then they are OK.

      A Rov in Monsey is telling his baal habatim that chezkas kashrus ended when MF was caught, even if we can prove that he was selling traif for many years before that. Only dishes used since he was caught (last week) need be to thrown away.

    323. To ANN 4:56
      Quote
      “Those in the know concluded that the scam was done in a way that it was undetectable by Mashgichim.
      To suggest that the Rav Hamachshir needs to apologize is ridiculous. “

      could you come out with names who
      THOSE IN THE KNOW are
      and what was ever done THAT IT WAS UNDETECTABLE BY MASHGICHIM

      lets see it / hear it ???

    324. Does anyone know any other establishments that are getting a hashgacha from R Breslauer, I think we should make sure not to patronize them until they switch hashgochas. At a minimum R Breslauer and Co. should pay the price of being forced to leave this business to more competent people who are more diligent and concerned about the public at large.

    325. I do agree with s r hirsch 3:58

      i have not seen 1 good reason y
      Rabbi B. did not checked after some
      complains where filed just brushed it away like a Rabbe
      could someone explain y he HAS TO STAY in the hecsher business ??
      let all the papule that hold by him send him his weekly check
      and let us have more Kosher places to eat in

    326. To the anon 3:28 with Migalah Amukos story

      How do you know that those two brothers, that confessed, they were not caught, that they had Mashgichim. In those days they relied on the person’s chazkah, they had not hashgocho. Very different if a person is hired to be a Mashgiach. It is no different then hiring an auditor for a corporation. And we all know what happened to Authur Anderson and Enron. They were a useless audtor and are out of the picture and this Rav hamcshir was apprantly a useless mashgiah and should be out of the picture.

    327. Locations to Kasher your Keilim

      Monsey NY – Belz Bais Hamedrash 12 Maple Ave tonight 9/06/06 until 10:00 pm.

      Monsey NY – Hatzlocha Grocery tonight 9/06/06 until 10:00 pm.

      Lakewood NJ – The Cheder on 9th Street Thursday night 9/07/06 from 8:00 – 10:00 pm.

    328. This is truly amazing. There was NO mashgiach tmidi in the butcher like there is in the “non heimishe” hechsherim. There was a similar story with a Kehilla butcher WITHOUT a mashgiach tmidi. Nobody wants to learn that the only solution is to put in a mashgiach tmidi who has the only keys.

      Set up a getzunter monitoring system which would be monitored by the Rav hamachshir or his representative.

      Why are we fooling ourselves? Why can’t we see the siple solution that is ALREADY in place elsewheres?

    329. This whole thing happened to shake evryone up, because ALL of us complacently rely on hashgochos, without really checking into them. People say if it it good enough for Rav So and So , then it is good enough for me etc. Everyone has to be more careful about kashrus, not just for chickens, but, whenever we buy a ready made product or eat at a catered affair, it is very possible that our kashrus is being compromised. Really we indulge ourselves too much by having every imaginable kind of food available, food of every nationality, candy of every gory flavor and color etc. We should go back to basics and simplicity. I think that is all part of doing Teshuva and not being too gashmiusdik.

    330. It seems some readers understand that Breslauer/Ullman have to get out of the hasgocho business.

      Moshe Green is Pinky Green’s brother.

      Maybe it runs in the family.

      Maybe the Skverer despot will absolve Moshe Green & his boys like he got Pinky a pardon from Bill & Hillary.

      Crime does pay.

    331. who knows why we had so many accidents nebach some fatalities last week three accidents in new square beginning of summer fatalaty on saddle river rd. harav horowitz lost in toronto waters mee shomar lolam dai yomer lotzuroseinu dai

    332. please stop mixing harav hagoen reb moshe green it happenned by the holyu megale amukois adraba his children way out to try to fix something they did not have anything to do with

    333. B’Rosh Hashanah yikaseyvun. U’vYom Tzom Kippur yaychasaymun… Mi yichyeh, umi yamus.
      Wow, read through it right now. Look at all the Misseh Mishuneh’s one can get.
      Which one is it that you like so much that you can’t stop the Loshon Hora – on Rabbanim.
      Need you be reminded of some recent “tragedies” IN MONSEY or in Canada but a Monsey family????
      Did they also blog-blast wrongfully which Yom Kippur IS NOT mechaper???
      It’s ELLUL for crying out loud!!!

    334. sr hirsch seems to know all the right things that EVERYONE ELSE has to do. i wonder if he ever gives any thought as to what he needs to do.

      Second, to those who turned this whole thing into a chasidish, litvish, yekke thing:

      I am a chassidish woman who grew up in Monsey. I must be dan l’kaf zechus all those who are being mevazeh Rav Breslauer, who is known to be a tremendous gadol. I’m assuming that those who are writing these spiteful and disdainful, horrid things about him are not people from Monsey. They have no idea who Rabbi Breslauer is and have probably never heard of him before this sad, sad story.

      The other thing is: We have to thank Hashem that he does not judge us for our siblings’ actions. I have a hard time doing teshuva and correcting things that I am supposed to do, imagine having to be worried that I’ll be judged for my brothers’ aveiros.

      Having said that, what difference does it make who R’ Moshe Green’s brother is. What has that got to do with the price of tea in China?
      How does this all tie in?

      We have to know that noone is infallible. Every one of us can sin unknowingly.

      Torah is “lo bashomayim hi”. We have laws that guide us and tell us how to behave and what to do.
      Sometimes these things that we have no control over happen.

      What we do have control over, though, is how we react in these situations. And let me tell you, this has been OUT OF CONTROL.

    335. To anonymous 7:38 above

      Why should one not mix in Reb Moshe Green. Some people raise valid complaints and they should be dealt with accordingly, not shoved aside. No one said that either he or his kids did anything B’meizid. Though, there was michshol that came out. It is therefore ironic that he is giving a missar drusha. I don’t believe he will say at his drusha that he has to look into his maasim. He will be mussaring everyone but himself. That’s hypocricy. Don’t you think so?
      Please don’t come to me with, oh is a rosh yeshiva, etc.

      במקום שיש חילול ה’ אין חולקים כבוד לרב

    336. two points i need to clarify here

      let all the people who need to get knew china and or kasher kalim sue the following groups for their time and for their dishes
      it would be a class action and would then put the grocery store , the hechsher and finkel out of bissiness and require them to go bankrupt

      as for the idiot who was writing about harav Y shlesinger
      he has spoken out about this subject (hear the tape of last sunays shir and realize he is probably your one rabbi worthy of any respect
      breslauer ( and i do not put a rabbi in front of his name must apologize to the community for his unfortunate lapse
      and finkel needs to be thrown out of the coomunity like a trief chicken

    337. JUST DISCOVERED!
      THIS WAS A TOTAL SET-UP BY THE OWNERS OPF HATZLOCHA.
      LET’S NOT FORGET THAT HE HAD A BONE (OR 2) TO PICK WITH SHEVACH.
      HE LOST A DIN TORAH LAST MONTH TO SHEVACH.
      AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN TREIF MEAT HAS BEEN FOUND?
      LET’S ALL WAIT FOR THE AUDIT ON HIS RECORDS TO COME OUT FOR THE TRUTH TO BE TOLD!
      ELUL—ENOUGH LOSHEN HORAH…AND SCANDALS!

    338. It’s unfortunate to imagine if that would be uncovered. Nebach that someone would do such a thing to another jew right before roch hashana.
      We all need a kapparah on all the loshon harah that’s been going around.
      We see many people walk around with a Chofetz Chaim in their taalis bag, but when this comes out, they are all ears (and mouth). Nebach to us.

    339. This Blogg is for us frustrated people that where affected in 1 way or another by this scandal and we have the right to say who we hold responsible for it
      if your not affected ( or atleast you thing so) then get off this blogg and BTW internet is as ouser as loshen horo by the pasek off all rabunim so get off and let us give out our frustration with the so called ra….

    340. The question is not whose affected. Almost everyone is affected. Even in Lakewood they are setting up kashering tomorrow night.
      The point this person is trying to make is that something smells fishy here, with the Din Torah last month.
      It just doesn’t sound right

    341. BTW
      when you bring pasak holocho re rabunim
      I would like to assume that this is when
      they where elected by the people that they serve
      today most of this rabunim pay them self for their house / bais medrash
      and then keep us for their ….

    342. Well then you should stop donating money for their buildings!
      What’s that have to do with this story?
      Listen, whatever the story, let’s stop talking loshen horah about everyone else.
      No one has come out with a full audit of Netzachs sales. I am very curious what that will look like!

    343. for those of you who still like him

      Mr. Finkl is looking for a space to open his new meat store you could rent him your garage and give him the hasgucho and eat his stuff
      enjoy it

    344. I totally disagree with the people who beshmutz the Rabonim.They followed Halacha, and if they were hoodwinked,that doesn’t change their status.Shame on all of you how you have no Kovod for them.
      Question, as I am not from Monsey, does the one who caused this scandal, have a wife and kids. What is his status in the community that everybody trusted him?

    345. Curious question, does anyone know if for example Rockland Kosher has a better system of hashgacha then Shevach had. Do they have a mashgiach timidi or some other stringent method or are we relying on the same cheskas kahrus. They do thier own packaging and labeling so are we in the same potential positon (not accusing anyone) as we were with Shevach.

    346. My humble opinion!

      When a Rav gives a hechsher he gotta check it out! ….and oh how does he have to check it out again and again….

      Also, Finkel DID confessed that he sold chicken he “thought” was Empire with a “KJ” label!!
      He bought chicken from a company that sells treifa also. He knew that all along! He confessed to that as well!
      (by the way… according to halacha a Yid may not sell treifa to a goy just like he may not sell to a yid! – so that tells us that it’s against halacha to BUY from that yid)

      So stop selling bluff on this blog!

      Don’t try to shift the blame away from Finkel!

      What about the fact that many people asked Finkel all along why the chicken tastes less salty and why it looks different, and he bluffed and answered “KJ is using a different low sodium salt”!

      He is in this line for very long, did he not see the chicken inside out to realize that its treifa and not Empire???

      Drei nisht ah kopp!!

      Don’t make a sheiguts into a tzaddik!

    347. ENOUGH SAID! eeeeelllluuuulllll!
      ELUL!!!! It’s over. Kovad hatorah please. Don’t be mevazeh Rabonim. ELUL! Forget, forgive, if you want Hashem to do that for you on the Yom Hadin. Do what you have to, and keep quiet.

    348. Rockland Kosher has 2 advantages:

      1) Due to politics, they have many bal machsheirim against them who keep a very strict police watch on all that goes on in there. They try the best to find him doing something wrong, to ‘chap’ him! so he gotta be very careful!

      2) He has about 3 billion cameras throughout his store/factory… so you can always go and look back!

      3)With all the above, we still must have seeyatah dishmayah!

    349. People were saying theres something fishy about the meat.Now THATS a major problem FISH AND MEAT TOGETHER God forbid!!Skip the treife meat problem-fish and meat!!oh my god

    350. I was at a speech last night of a prominent Rav in Monsey and this is what he said.

      * Rabbi Bresaluer who gave the hashgocho followed protocal of every
      kashrus
      organization – he did nothing wrong and should not be blamed for any of
      this. Also, eating traif b’shogeg can be fixed, beschmutzing a talmid chochom, you lose your Olam Habbah.

      * The problem of repackaging products (as was done here) is a big
      problem
      not just with meat and chicken, but with any product that is repacked
      in
      stores (i.e. candy)

      * Traif was sold in this store definitly one time, the rest of the time
      no
      one really knows.

      * People were complaining that the chickens were different in color and
      less
      salty. Slaughter houses use 2 diffrent kinds of salt, high and low
      sodium
      (Vineland uses Hi, Monroe uses low) so there is no way to tell if these
      chickes were salted or not just by looking or tasting (there is a
      question
      if you are even allowed to lick the chicken to see if it was salted)

      * people were complaining the color was different- 3 packages of
      chicker
      were put side by side, Tyson, perdue, and kosher. You cannot tell by
      looking
      at the color if it is kosher or not (purdue was the most yello, tyson
      the
      least, the kosher one was in trhe middle).

      * The butcher has a chazaka that he is kosher until you know that
      something
      has definitly changed. The question is once it does change, do we say
      everything until that day was kosher, or do we say that anything at all
      from
      that butcher is now traif. We hold that everything from day one of the
      butcher is traif. (this is the machlokes between the shach and taz)

      These are the general rukes that he put out:

      * A k’lay rishon- a utensil that you usually use to cook in (pots,
      pans) –
      if there is any thought that you may have used it with meat or chicken
      from
      this place has to be kashered. Things that are usually not alllowed to
      be
      kashered (frying pans, plastic, pots with handles, teflon) are allowed
      and
      must be kashered.

      * ovens- must be kashered- if you have a self cleaning oven, run it
      through
      one cycle. If it is not self cleaning, clean it out, dont use it for 24
      hours and then turn it onto the highest temperature for one hour.

      * Microwave- clean it out, don’t use for 24 hours and them put in a
      styrofoam cup of water for 10- 15 minutes

      * Stovetops do not need to be kashered.

      * Outside grills- the rack has to be kashered- the rest of the grill
      turn
      onto high for one hour

      * countertops do not need to be kashered.

      * sinks to not need to be kashered.

      * convection ovens, toasters- rack has to be kashered- the rest of it
      just
      hand clean.

      * crock pot- usually not allowed to kasher crock pots, here you have to
      kasher it.

      * Dishwashers- don’t use for 24 hours and then run it 3 times

      * Cutlery- if you do not put the utensil into the pot it does not need
      to be
      kashered- utensils that are put directly into the pot have to be
      kashered.
      If you have a spoon or 2 that you MAY have put into the pot but they
      are now
      mixed in with all the others, you do not need to kasher.

      Plates, bowls, plates put into a microwave- do not need to be kashered.

      * plastic containers that you had liquid soup in for 24 hours need to
      be
      kashered (if they can withstand the heat)- otherwise throw them out.

    351. People who will still trust MF are terribly affected by the klolloh that “whoever eats treif nebach, his head gets all clogged up – he can’t think straight – he goes off the yiddish path – he becomes DUMB… etc. etc…

    352. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THE RAV HAMACHSHER. HE IS FULLY RESPONSIBLE, BECAUSE HIS NAME IS HANGING IN THE STORE AND PEOPLE BUY THE CHICKEN FOR THIS REASON. THIS RUV SHOULD NOT BE IN THE KASHRUS BUSINESS. HE SHOULD GET OUT OF THIS HIMSELF, HE SHOULDBE ASHAME OF HIMSELF.

    353. to:
      12:29 AM
      tell your prominent rov,that many years ago i was pointed out to him that something is not kosher and he did not do what any serious kashrus organization would do.
      it is rabanim like this, that don’t have a clue how a hechsher is run, that shoot from the hip ,handing olam haba for those they like ,that are the mkalkilim…..
      monsey rabanim were also warned about a different scandal in their midst and are do nothing.
      keep this comment on record when it explodes.
      you don’t have rabanim in monsey. you have a group of private businessmen that are playing to a willful gullible crowd.
      listen in private what they say about each other.
      here you get to hear loshon hara lemihadrin.
      take responsibility for your own actions.
      ask yourself what are you relying on .
      for starters ,who is kaj?
      who do you rely on when you eat it?
      why is a man from monsey giving a hechsher in iowa?
      does he have a team?
      who are they?
      keep asking? kashrus responds to consumer demands.
      why does the place in brooklyn that gets $17.00 seventeen dollars for a portion of vip cholent on thursday use meat from a different company?
      wouldn’t go near the iowa company.
      keep asking .
      p.s.
      the cholent is worth every dollar.
      mmmm

    354. Hey editore thhis is a quote from the NY tImes! did you see it?
      “The matter has been the talk of Jewish Web logs. One of them, Vos Iz Neias, announced it under the banner headline “Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken as Kosher.” (Nonkosher food, or food that is not in accord with Jewish dietary laws, is called treif, which derives from the Hebrew word teref, or torn.) The posting generated 440 comments in two days.”

    355. How is a Ruv from Williamsburg giving a hechser for a huge supermarket in Monsey? In addition to him not being from Monsey, he is a very busy person, actively sits on Dinei Torahs in Hisachdus Harabanim ($200/hour+), and busy with a lot of other things, you can never get a hold of him. Yet, he is giving a hashguch temidis at the biggest kosher supermarket in the US (which includes re-packaging of meat and thousands of other items).

    356. To 12:29 am

      Unfortunately the prominent Rav is defending the lower standard followed by the heimeshe hechsherim of not requiring a mashgiach tmidi.

      The statement that “everyone does what Rabbi Bresslauer did” is NOT true.

      The major kashrus agencies do require a mashgiach tmidi but no one wants to hear that.

      The policy is not working – admit it!

    357. The difference between rockland kosher and shevach is that shevach was a seperate business in a seperate building and orderedmeat separete from the store and paid seperate versus rockland the butcher belongs to rockland he works in the store not in a seperate building he can’t do whatever he wants rockland pays the bills, it makes a big differance the way their butcher system is set up!!!

    358. Vos iz neias in the NY Times!

      http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/07/nyregion/07chicken.html?ref=nyregion

      Butcher Is Accused of Passing Off Chicken as Kosher
      By FERNANDA SANTOS

      MONSEY, N.Y., Sept. 6 — Since sundown on Saturday — when the Jewish Sabbath ended — men, women and children have been scrubbing kitchen counters and stoves, and dipping pots and utensils in scalding water.

      “My husband and I had to leave everything we were doing,” said Esther Herzl, 61, a Hasidic grandmother who lives here, “and all we did was scrape and scrape and scrape — from the cutlery to the glassware to the countertops, oven and stove. I’m beat. We’re truly religious, so we don’t cheat in the cleaning.”

      The cleansing ritual, which is prescribed by Jewish law, became necessary after a Hasidic butcher was accused of stocking the shelves of a kosher grocery store here with nonkosher chicken and selling it to thousands of Orthodox Jewish families.

      Now a group of rabbis is debating the fate of the butcher.

      Last week, the state’s Department of Agriculture and Markets seized 15 cases of chicken from the store, Hatzlocha Grocery, where the butcher sold chicken and other meats from rented shelf space to test it for salt, a key ingredient in kosher food.

      The state agency and the rabbis, who represent several Hasidic congregations in Monsey and elsewhere in Rockland County, are trying to determine the origin of the chicken, whose package carried the stickers of two area kosher meat plants that had ceased supplying to the butcher after he failed to pay them, according to a local rabbi and an employee at the store.

      “To sell nonkosher as kosher is one of the biggest acts of betrayal that a Jewish person can do to another,” said Rabbi Menachem Meir Weissmandel of Chemed Shul, a local synagogue. “This is the darkest day in the history of our community since we settled in this area many years ago.”

      The butcher, Moshe Finkel, owns Shevach Meats, which buys kosher chicken and other meats in bulk, and then slices, packages and sells it at the grocery store and to wedding halls, religious schools and Hasidic camps in the Catskill Mountains.

      Attempts to reach Mr. Finkel, who lives in Monsey, by telephone were unsuccessful on Wednesday. Rabbi Weissmandel said that Mr. Finkel was banned from Hatzlocha Grocery last Wednesday, as soon as the store owners uncovered his alleged transgression.

      He said the store owners confronted Mr. Finkel after they noticed the shelves lined with kosher meats, even though his usual suppliers had not made a delivery. Almost immediately, leaflets lined Hatzlocha’s windows, telling patrons in Hebrew that Shevach Meats had been caught selling nonkosher chicken. At synagogues and on the street, rabbis instructed the faithful to throw out the meat and cleanse their kitchens to make them kosher again.

      The matter has been the talk of Jewish Web logs. One of them, Vos Iz Neias, announced it under the banner headline “Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken as Kosher.” (Nonkosher food, or food that is not in accord with Jewish dietary laws, is called treif, which derives from the Hebrew word teref, or torn.) The posting generated 440 comments in two days.

      Rabbinical panels often work in secret, so it is hard to figure out when the rabbis here will reach a decision or what it will be.

      As for the state, a spokeswoman for the Agriculture Department said investigators were trying to determine if the chicken was ever certified as kosher and advertised as such at the store. She said violators are subject to fines of up to $1,000.

    359. BREAKING NEWS!!!

      A flyer was distributed in Bais Tefillah (R’ Breslauer’s shul) at shacharis this morning stating that Bais Tefillah is getting out of the kashrus business and will no longer be giving hashgacha on any establishments.

    360. Congrautlations to Vos Iz Neias for the honorable mention in this morning’s New York Times.

      Can you believe that the maximum fine that can be imposed by the state of New York is only a paltry (pronounced “poultry”) $1,000.

      Some incentive for a lowlife to not sell treif as kosher.

    361. If it is true that Bais Tefilo is getting out of the hashgocho business then Rabbi Breslauer has proven that he is an ehrlicher yid who messed up.
      For all of you defenders of Rabbi Breslauer, it seems that Rabbi Breslauer agrees with me and not with you.

    362. > people were complaining the color was different- 3 packages of
      chicker
      were put side by side, Tyson, perdue, and kosher.

      1) Which yid went into a store to buy the the Purdue?

      2) Which tasted better?

    363. In response to 9:24 A.M.:

      Your conclusion that Rabbi Breslauer’s decision to remove himself from Hashgocho involvements is proof of his admission that he “messed up” (9:24’s words, is not necessarily correct. It may simply mean that he realizes that a significant number of people in Monsey have lost confidence in him and thus, his ability to perform the job effectively has been severely compromised. Without a direct statement from him, we simply can’t draw any conclusions in this regard. Either way, his decision is laudable!

    364. He may have already started to lose hasgochos but he could have tried to fight it and try to rehabilitate his reputation and business and he gave up the fight. Hats off to him.
      I am certain as a frum jew he is is having sleepless nights wondering why this happened under his watch.
      According to the people who know him, he has lived an exempelary life and at this stage of his life such a tragedy should befall Monsey is sad.
      Even though his defenders say he did every thing k’halacha, still I would not want to be in his shoes.

    365. In response to 2:51 a.m.

      As you say that a rav from williamasburg is giving his hashgacha in a monsey supermarket. This Rabbi has mashgichim coming in all the time. He himself comes down at least once a week (by bus as to get there by surprise) the entire supermarket including offices & Kitchens are under 24 hr. recorded surveilence which he can whatch at any time. and the boss sits in front of the screens most of the day. I think that kashrus supervision can’t get much better than this (and look what happened when a monsey rav gave a hechsher on a local supermarket.) And btw all meat packages that have the rav’s name on it-the rav was at the actual shechita.

      A little note to 2:51 a.m.: go through all facts before you speak, it’ll make you feel and sound a lot less foolish.

    366. There is a critical issue that many here are missing.

      Like most of Monsey, I have carefully followed the circumstances and determined how they have affected my household.

      It was brought to my attention that at a shiur given by a prominent Monsey Rav last night it was stated that the butcher admitted to purchasing the tarfus.

      If this is so, then as a community we must give priority not to the kashering of our pots, and not to the safeguards we will surely institute which will be designed to prevent a reoccurence of this disastrous affair.

      What is more critical than any of these issues is to develop an understanding of what forces and circumstances in our community drove an ehrliche yid to a level so desperate that he committed such an act. What was happening in this man’s life that skewed his judgment so drastically that he acted in such a fashion?

      To simply pawn this off on greed or a few extra dollars is simple-minded and preposterous. The few hundred dollars 19 cases can generate simply don’t justify this act. Ten times that wouldn’t do it. Was it tuition pressure? Was it a personal problem where warning signs were missed, an opportunity to intervene passed over? There is more here that is yet known.

      So until this community is ready for serious introspection the spectre of this act will cast its shadow upon us.

    367. Anonymous said…
      JUST DISCOVERED!
      THIS WAS A TOTAL SET-UP BY THE OWNERS OPF HATZLOCHA.
      LET’S NOT FORGET THAT HE HAD A BONE (OR 2) TO PICK WITH SHEVACH.
      HE LOST A DIN TORAH LAST MONTH TO SHEVACH.
      AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN TREIF MEAT HAS BEEN FOUND?
      LET’S ALL WAIT FOR THE AUDIT ON HIS RECORDS TO COME OUT FOR THE TRUTH TO BE TOLD!
      ELUL—ENOUGH LOSHEN HORAH…AND SCANDALS!

      9:04 PM

      ———————————–
      You’re a DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!!!
      First, you come on and make baseless accusations that the owners of Hatzlocha set this whole thing up. Then you have the chutzpah to preach “Elul–NO LOSHEN HORAH”? I can’t believe they allowed your comment. You’re obviously a sick and demented individual.

    368. anon 10:40 is the most outrageous post yet.

      Can there be any justification for treifing other peoples’ organs, pots and pans because of economic pressure.

      R U for real?

      You have economic pressure not being able to afford tuition? That may be valid. Then go eat at McDonald’s or Burger King each night. You will be amazed at how cheap you can get an entire meal there. Beleive me, after a few months of eating at McDonald’s, you will be able to afford tuition.
      But don’t go out and treif up other peoples’ lives because YOU have economic pressures.

    369. maybe its mida keneged mida for people eating rubashkins

      maybe hashem is like “you want cheap meat so bad you break the torah multiple times to do it? here have some meat that’s as treif as your ethics”…it would be very Neviim Acharonim

    370. Anon 1049 is the narrow minded, bitter, and holier than thou attitude that brought this to fruition. Make no mistake. You will be judged based on how you judge others Anon 1049, so be careful. No is saying that what was done was right, but unless you actually finish the eighth grade and educate yourself, you’d understand that societal dynamics are fully in play here – more so than any simple “how could he do this” whine you can manage.

      Ask yourself why this happened in Monsey and not some other community. Then ask yourself what you did to deserve this – yes you. There are no victims here, only levels of guilt.

    371. Anon 1111 makes no sense. Let us try it again and keep it simple for you, anon 1111. Your economic pressures gives you NO right to treif up my pots and pans. PERIOD.
      You want to argue that. You are a fool.

    372. This post is for Anon 1111 criticizing anon 1049.

      Why don’t you judge the Hamas and Hezbollah lcaf zchus. After all, they were chased out of Haifa, Jerusalem, etc. during the early 20th century by the jews. Is that adequate economic pressure to justify their killing of Israelis and jews worldwide? Where does the line stop for justifying immoral behavior due to economic pressures.

    373. I’ve just been introduced to your blog and I think you provide a terrific service to the community by providing them with up to date news affecting them. I have one suggestion that I hope you won’t mind my making. In looking over the comments about the butcher scandal in Monsey, I was able to find out the name of the butcher and the Rav Hamachshir.

      In addition, there were all sorts of comments (some of them contradicted by other comments) about the reliability of the Rav Hamachshir. In my mind, all of this is unnecessary and probably harmful until all the facts are in.

      In order to avoid the possibility of loshon hora being spread by the blog, would it make sense to eliminate public comments? I understand that you need feedback in order to make sure that your news is correct and up to date. In that case, people should only be permitted to provide feedback directly to you through an e-mail to this address. This way, all unnecessary public comments and rumors can be avoided. Tizku L’Mitvos.

      I wish you much Hatzlacha and a Kesivo Vachasimo Tova.

    374. TO ANON 10:40 AM

      As was mentioned on the blog yesterday,12:11 which was strongly condemned.

      It’s his wife and her father Reb Chaim Goldvasser who were pressuring him to live such a lifestyle.

      It had nothing to do with tuition. He has been in charge of TUITION commitees all over town. He makes everyone else MIshugah, but gets gret rates himself.

      His wife & f-i-l are devious characters.

    375. Your pots were traifed up because you deserved it. That has nothing to do with whatever drove the butcher to do what he did.

      Take responsibility for what happened to yourself.

      Stop blaming the butcher – his cheshbon is his own, but yours is yours.

    376. Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation -whoever they are has done a great job of making loshon hora the #1 sin above all others. Covering up for rebbe-molesters, rosh yeshiva enablers, treif butchers, irresponsible masgichim is all ok, it’s loshon hora.

      People are trying to find out the truth and the people who committed this grave sin should not be protected.

      By the way, The Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation is from Monsey and there is no name attached that I know that takes responsibilty for its actions. Who are they and who made them the loshon hora police?

      Who gave them permission to use the Chofetz Chaim’s picture {which it probably is not)

      Is there another Godol B’Yisroel that has such a bizoyon that his supposed picture is plasterd over posters/books/key chains etc.?

      The Chofetz Chaim is being used like a marketing icon comparable to Ronald McDonald. Bizoyon Hatorah.

      Why are they allowed to be on the internet? Who gave them a hetter?

      http://www.chofetzchaimusa.org/

    377. TO ALL TOSHVEI MONSEY:

      NOW THAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY GONE THRU A KASHERING PROCESS,
      HOW DO YOU THINK A CATERER CAN TO THE SAME FOR A LARGE SIMCHA IN A FEW HOURS.
      JUST THE CLEANING.
      THE SILVERWARE,
      THE SILVER CHAFFING DISHES,
      THE OVENS,
      SINKS,.
      THE DISHWASHER,
      THE COFFE POTS,
      THE GLASSES,
      THE HOT WATER FOR COFFE/TEA ON SHABBAT
      YOU’LL BE STUNNED AT THE ANSWER.
      YOU MIGHT NEVER EAT IN SUCH A PLACE AGAIN.
      UNLESS IT’S PESACH AND YOUR WIFE DOES’NT’T REALLY WANT TO HAVE ALL THOSE IN-LAWS ,GRANDCHILDREN, GUESTS.
      YOU SEE WERE. ALL A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES, IN VERY LARGE EMPTY HOUSES.
      WHAT A SHAME.
      WHAT A LEGACY WE ARE LEAVING OVER FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.

    378. TO: 12;14
      were do u get a heter for such a public gathering on the ninth of av?.
      were taught not to eat the last meal w/ three men,because of public gathering.
      it almost looks loke an italian funeral.a social event,
      dressed in mourners slothingg

    379. To the 4:44 poster who said:

      “Just so you know, Kehilah Kashrus in Flatbush had a BIG michshoil last year when they caught a store (formerly Kosher Spot) selling non-glatt meat as glatt.”

      Kehila Kashrus did not catch them -they gave the Hasgacha. It was only when a store in Crown Heights wanted to sell meat from there that the Bais Din of Crown Heights sent in a Mashgiach and caught them with the not Glatt meat. For all Kehila Kashrus’s hype – they messed up big time.

    380. We have all these proclaimed ethicists saying that it is Elul and not the time to engage in this loson hora, etc. If so, it is Elul for you too. WHy are you here reading these posts??????????

    381. this has to be made public LMAN YAYDEE the consequences. No hasgacha can protect themselves 100% . They rely on the owners -owners of Kosher establishments will think very hard before trying something like this

    382. Dan L’Kaf Z’chus
      Look how many people will be careful in the future.
      Look how many people now know that a chicken has to be salted.
      Look how many people learnt about the Machlokes Shach and Taz as to when he loses his Chazkas Kashrus.
      Look how many people now know the Dinim of Kashering your Keilim.
      So lets try to put everything in perspective.

    383. Anon 152 says to keep it out of the news.

      OF COURSE!

      SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, when will we start behaving so that we don’t appear in the print media?

      Chilul Hashme by Ortho Jews appears in the newspapers all too often.

      You don’t want to be “news” material?

      I have an eitzah for all:

      BEHAVE like you are supposed to.

    384. anon 202,

      what is the difference whether MF was seen or not.

      Come on, what is this now.

      Some kind of gossipy, National Enquirer type bog??????

      Why, we are frum yidden!?!?!?!?!?!?

    385. Most of the comments on this website should not have been posted.I can’t understand how the administator allows this to continue, especially since he states that all comments must be approved by the blog author. The English of most of the comments is atrocious and I think it’s a real chillul Hashem to post them. Now it got to the outside goyishe world. I heard it on WINS this morning,and the New York Times already picked up on it.

      I had heard that some boys were never taught how to write English. This website really proves the fact that one should learn the language of the country he lives in. I can’t imagine how some of them have the time to sit by this website and send comments which make no sense, over and over.

      If the author claims that he approves all comments before they are posted, what right did he allow the disparaging posts insulting their families and the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation.

      Enough already. Stop the repetitive bashmutzing ehrliche people.I personally think you should discontinue all future comments and let the people who it concerns be in touch with their respective Rav.

    386. I Heard that Rabbi Breslauer is terminating his Hechsher (kosher certification), can anyone verify that???

      BTW, im a chasidisher guy from monsey and got here through the NY Times.

      Kudos to the VOS IZ NEIAS staff!

    387. Why when a hechsher is removed by one Rav (as happened with a the big supermarket in Monsey), there is immidiately another one who takes his place? This has to stop!

    388. When was the last time the Mashgiach stepped foot into his cooler? Did he at least have a key to the place? Obviously, MF slept pretty comfortable that night with no fear of anyone noticing those 19 boxes! Wake up people!

    389. I agree tha Kehilis Kashris botcht big time so why wern’t they moda that shows they are no diffarent YOU SIMPLY CANT TRUST ANY HASHGUCIS THAT FAILED EVRYONE SHOULD BOYCOT THES TWO HASHGUCHIS

    390. Just wondering out loud, who is going to cash on this? There are quite a few establishments in the Monsey area bearing his Hechsher.

      Rabbi Weismandel is certainly making a lot of noise.

      I wonder if this could not happen to anyone, after all Shevach was doing it behind Rabbi Breslauer’s back.

    391. It’s also interesting that they didn’t take Weissmandel to speak yesterday in Satmar. I guess, because they think that he might have a financial gain from all this. I hope this is not the case. Time will tell.

    392. R’ Weissmandel used to give hechsherim to the majority of restaurants in Monsey (Monsey Take Out, Monsey Bar B Q, Kosher Castle, and more) but they all removed his hechser for a couple of reasons.
      A. Some people do not eat anything that has his hechser (especially lately that he angred a lot of people with his hechsher on the Iowa meat).
      B. He required all restaurants to carry his meat which a lot of customers didn’t eat. That’s why all the restaurants had to remove his hechser.

    393. dear fellow bloggers:
      i was one of those that made jokes etc about the monsey story.
      it all changed when i found out, that a close member of my family ate this .
      it’s no longer funny.
      i go into the bathroom turn on the shower and sob.
      how?
      why?
      you get so angry you want to put a fist thru something.
      your not allowed to.
      i never knew myself to be such a tzadik.
      so my am i so hurt?
      crying? with tears!
      how do all the balei tshuva deal with their past?
      who gives them chizuk?
      why am i tearing now?
      can someone that knows how to be mechazek get on this blog.
      forget accusations. we’re hurting a little chizuk?
      anybody know were to go?

      HELP

    394. חוץ די אידישקייט איז דא א פאר מיליאן דאלער,שאדן , אין אפילו מער, פין כלים,(-אין דא איז צו דערמאנען אלע וואס האבן דארט נאך געקויפט פסח צו זעכער מאכען דאס צו טאן אויך מיט די פסחדיגע כלים -אין עס עקסטערע כשרן נישט אין חמצדיגע טעפ) וואס אידישע קינדער האבן געמוזט ארויס ווארפען
      איך וואלט פארגעשלאגען צו מאכן קלעים דעפארטמענט אין עם לייגן אין באנקארט אין פארקויפען זיין הויז אין אלע פראפעטיעס (אויב ער פארמאגט))

    395. I hear that in addition to all the places in Monsey, Lakewood that Shevach soled his products, he also soled to this places, and there might even be more.

      Fair Oaks Bungalow Colony.

      Pragers Bungalow Colony.

      White House Estates.

      Bait V’egan Bungalow Colony.

      Camp Munk.

      Camp Morris.

      Stamford Yeshiva Bais Binyomin.

    396. This is no joke,
      But crying is a form of ‘charottoh’, which is part of ‘teshuvah’, after you are done with the crying; you have to take upon yourself to be strict with what you eat…. (Kabboloh al haossid)

      Now you can’t really compare this to a ‘bal teshuvah’ who was ignorant and finally found the truth. He starts to observe ‘mitsvos’ with happiness…

      You, on the other hand ‘did’ know that you have to be careful with what you eat, but (for whatever reason) was nichshol – you are UPSET!!
      You will see that after you do ‘teshuvah’, (properly) you will ALSO be happy! iy”h

    397. this is a bunch of horse dookie first of all why did the mashgichim have to break into da freezeer they should have a key and also if the meat was possibly not kosher how the heck were they tasting it duh!!!!!!!!!!! too many holes in this story we should all give

    398. most people in monsey do eat rav weissmandel’s hechsher, he is one of the best heimishe hechsheirim if not the best, he removed hecheirim from some stores in monsey because he did not know them so he could not trust them, you do not see any baal machsher do that, look at hisachdos hurabunim they give hechsherim and never even check up to see, i have a cousin who has a restaurantwith hisachdus hurabunim hechsher, they made him fill out a application, they told him what they allow him to sell and what not to sell, somebody came down a week later, and that was 15 months ago, nobody came to check since, i guess as long as he pays the bill every month nobody will ever come to check on the store, this is outrages,

    399. To add a little sense… some of the hysteria is shock that a man who grew up in the best yeshivos and nice family of yekkishe Bnei Torah, gives a shiur, appears to be a public minded askan, turns out to have been a “maachil neveilos.” there is a sense of disbelief, “What has gone wrong with our system?”
      The same is true for the outpouring about the Rav Hamachshir, everyone assumed that he was the most hands-on, the least money-minded, the straight and honest one. This may still be true but people cannot believe that relying on his authority they were involved with Treif chickens.
      Wouldn’t we all have been relieved if one distributor had come forward and said “it is all a false alarm, I brought kosher meats from other slaughter houses and it is only a question of worng labels, not of neveilos.” But sadly that has not happened, and, of course it has been handed over to the non-Jewish media and the state of New York, and probably soon to the IRS who want to know why he could handle large volumes of chicken without invoices and checks …. and will happily send him for a few years to a little room with no minyan for him lead…
      It is incredibly sad for all of us, and we must all wonder what Hashem wants of us…. and personally I don’t know the answer but I don’t think it is ban the internet and add an inch to skirts

    400. to: 9:40
      heimishe yid said…
      were is yiur cousins resturant.?
      did rabbi weissmandel tell his stores that they have to use his meat?
      did the othe supermarket send him packing for the same reason?
      how many kashrus org
      send money to him or his shul to cover for them?
      people that live in glass houses should use their neighbors toilet.
      or as my rebbe Rush Limbaugh says;
      if you dont understand the politics ,foolow the money.

    401. to 10:50 PM mativ.
      how many are going to be at at that minyan.

      you ever hear these words”cop a plea”
      you how thats done? ,ask ben brofman.
      there should be a race to his door.
      i think the brave rabanim of gilu daas fame should hire hom pronto.
      he might even do it pro bono.
      that means for free.
      that should interest some of you.

      ;

    402. as a Monsey resident i must say all those adding comment should be
      aware of a few facts due to the fact that till last week the owner of
      ”shevach meats” was a frum yid according to hallacha he didn’t need a full time mashgiach
      so before we all jump down
      Rabbi Breslauer or Rabbi Ulmans
      necks lets learn the halacha
      more specific and allso we cann’t blame Hazlacha Grocery that was subletting a part of there store
      to some one taht lives in Monsey for so many years So to all those taht comment please look in ur hearts and think ”Why did this all happpen now
      before Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur ?” Let us all take this as a siman from shamayim and do Teshuva and add something extra so when the Yomim
      Noraim are over we can say Ribomo Shel OLam we all did something to clean ourselves instead of making this a KATEGOR lets make it a SANEGOR and be MEYACHED MONSEY once and for all
      SHANA TOVA TO ALL

    403. many GLATT stores DO NOT date their meat packages as required by federal law. perhaps if this law was enforced this type of fraud would have been discovered much SOONER rather than LATER.

    404. i think the rabunim have to come up with some kind of system tracking the meat from rubashkin,empire,meal mart,kj,and others, i’m not sure how it could be done, but if stores would know that there is a easy way to catch them, they would be afraid to do this, if a heimishe guy can do such a thing, imagine what happens in restaurants in manhattan and other places like caterers in halls etc. where you have israeli owners that are not heimish at all, and it is much easier for them to buy a little treife meat on the side, and howmany people go to out to eat to these places, in this modern world there should be a way of tracking all meat that are kosher, i think the best is to buy meat only in direct stores like rubaskin and satmar and meal mart where you know that the meat is definitley kosher.

    405. its interesting that you go ahead and accus estores of not dating theremeats When is the last time that you have shopped for meats in either mOnsey Glat ,Wesley Kosher,Allfresh and Rockland Kosher ????????????????
      so plz get ur facts from ur frezer before u comment here

    406. “How can one know if a yekka is really frum?” asked Reb Yaakov Kaminetsky zt”l, “See if he is straight with money, see if he is honest with money and doesn’t owe anyone, only then can you know that a yekka is ehrlich” (and he said, “by you chassidim, iz duss nisht kein reiya”)
      Everyone knows that M Finkel was NOT ehrlich with money, he is known to be a ganev and owes money to tons of people for over 15 yrs (never mind KJ), so my question is: “Why did Rav Bresslauer Shlit”a not know of Reb Yaakovs shittah??? Trust me, he surely knew that Mr Finkel is a gaven (maybe just ignored it…)
      So all of you:

      S T O P saying that this choshuvah Mr Finkel etc. etc. –

      He “was” a two facer!
      He is a ganev gommer!
      A baal aveiro!
      A machatee ess horabbim!
      A swindler!
      A drei kopp!
      A rosho merusha!
      A murderer!
      (Whoever is machshil someone with treifa, causes the person who un-knowingly ate treifa and neveilus “korays” [dies prematurely! r”l]

      The money that he used for tzeddakah was treifa money, geganvetteh money (from yidden – not from social service) who knows if the building he helped build may continue to be used..??..

    407. Chazal tell us that “momoin verayois nafshoi shel odom michemdosoi” That comes above ‘chezkas kashros’!

      By the subject of money you need a ‘shomer’ just like by ‘yichud’ – a ‘hashgocho’ with ‘chezkas kashrus’ is not enough, one needs a ‘shomer’ – a ‘mashgiach temmiddi’

      I did not make this up – ‘Chazal’ teach us this!!!!!!!!

    408. ***URGENT INFORMATION*** While this was being typed, a prominent Monsey Rov called me to please advise everyone that this store was delivering meats to the CATSKILLS / Bungalow Colony’s. Please check to make sure that you did not have these meats in your possession (You might have brought the Treifa Keilim back to your city homes!!) meat was also sent to Israel by people to there kids there are kashring stuff abroad too.

    409. People are trying to find reasons why Finkel did this horrific thing to us like:
      1)Pressured life
      2)Needed money for tuition, camp…
      3) Mentally sick
      4)Crooked wife
      5)Mafia and so on…

      NONE OF THE ABOVE

      He did it because he obviously was not afraid of “ayin royah” and because…

      He knew that he is TRUSTED and no one will ever walk into his freezer (right under our nose!!)and see the ‘treifas’!!!
      He was ‘bichlall not afraid!
      For years no one challanged him!!!
      He didn’t even have to hide the treifa in some hidden cellar in a non jewish neighborhood!

      He knew without a doubt that that his mashgiach will NEVER catch him!

      Thanks for the fact that he was such a ganevv and owes so much money – that this horrible period came to an end!

      He knew that the nicer he ‘davened’ and the nicer he ‘layned’ the less he whould be susspicious!

      ‘Soiff ganevv litliah’!!!

    410. Something to think about:

      Before WW II, Agudas Yisroel was represented in the Polish Parliment as a political party. During one election, many Orthodox Jews failed to support the Aguda party, causing a major lose in their representation.

      An activist told Reb Yeruchom Levovitz zt’l that he couldn’t sleep the previous night because of his distress for Kvod Shomayim. Reb Yeruchom commented, that the same person’s sleep was not effected on Yom Kippur despite his sins commited the previous year. Clearly his righteous indignation were tainted by other motives than pure Kvod Shomayim.

      Rabbonim are surely in the best position to help us navigate through this difficult time…

    411. In Eretz Yisroel – In Boro Park – or in any other place in the world;
      This ‘wicked animal’ would have had broken bones already!
      His house would have been burnt down!
      His shul would be vandalized!
      The street would be covered with dirty letters against him!
      There would be demonstrations by his home; by his shul; by the baal machshers home; by the baal machshers shul; by the mashgiachs home & shul…

      You Monsey Lazy backward people – –
      Just sit and cry!
      No wonder you were so gullible!!!

    412. I guess the Monsey/SV people are too busy ‘Kashering’ – and doing ‘teshuvah’ they don’t have time for Mr F. – but as soon as they are done, I’m sure they will track him down “WHEREVER” he may be!!!

    413. How about we get all the Rabunim and Dayunim for a meeting, and we Baalei Batim will talk, we will say how THEY have to Teshuveh, and to give them a TIKUN, we relied on them, we trusted them, we thought (and we still think so) that we can trust the Rabunim and Mashgichim, I like the way they come up with ways for us to do Teshuveh, we didn’t do something wrong, if we would of gone to McDonalds, we can be criticized, but whats our Fault for going to a Kosher Grocery with a Kosher Certification of a prominent rabbi, and we were fed Nveilos.
      lets not get lost
      THEY, The Rabunim and All the new-mashgichim-comers, need a tikun, and a way to do Teshuveh.

    414. 597 comments of loshon horah and r’chilus. It is becoming pretty clear that MF may have been framed. A PI has been hired by a few rabbonim in the kashrus industry we should have positive proof of the results by Tuesday.
      Furthermore, you can have the best mashgiach in the world as long as there is collusion to fool him it will be IMPOSSIBLE for him to discover it. It is no different that the Enron and Arthur Anderson fiascos.

    415. Shouldn’t we find out which take-out stores also had his meat?
      Some people think that their kitchen is ok because they never bought at Hazlocho. What if we bought from take-out places (who maybe also were delivered by MF), so we all have to kasher our kitchens.
      This is a very serious concern and we have to find out

    416. There seem to be some commentators out there that do not have the foggiest idea about what constitutes loshon hora, what constiturtes motzee shem ra, what constitutes mevazeh talmid chochom, and what are the halachos of being dan l’kav zchus (including someone who has done something wrong, but where there is the possibility there was extreme duress and perhaps even inyanai sakanah). Each of thse is far more chamur than eating navailah. The first three mentioned couold cost olam haboh if carried far enough. Being mevazeh a talmid chochom give one a status of apikoress (see what the Chofetz Chaim says about this in his sefer by that name and otherr seforim) and causes one to lose his status as ameeesechah. Bear in mind too, that any of these avairos perpertrated on a web site has an enormous impact and tshuvah for this is difficult if not impossible. (Again, see what the C.C. says abot loshon hora l’rabim). I strongly suggest that some of the writers here give serious thought to what they have to say before they publize their comments.

    417. Hamodia, All the Yiddish newspapers, the NY times, Journal News, all reported on this story, and spelled it all out as to who is guilty here.

      The YATED (which represents the Litvish or Yeshivish oilem) IS STIL IN DENIEL!! No word, as if nothing took place!

    418. The Journal News wrote this morning again about it, and also wrote about VOS IS NEIAS, that it has almost 600 comments on this story!

      Rabbis call for utensil purifying
      By SULAIMAN BEG
      [email protected]
      THE JOURNAL NEWS
      http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060908/NEWS03/609080382/1019/NEWS03

      Original publication: September 8, 2006)

      SPRING VALLEY — A coalition of local rabbis is advising Jews to have their cooking utensils purified if they have purchased meat in the past decade from a local butcher accused of selling nonkosher chicken.

      The Tuesday night decision by rabbis from Spring Valley, Monsey and New Square, in consultation from rabbis in Israel, follows the discovery by owners of a kosher supermarket that the owner of Shevach Meats was stocking shelves with nonkosher chicken.

      Rabbi Mordechai Orbach, head of the Congregation Sharei Teflah in Monsey, said 20 rabbis came together to discuss the case and conduct interviews with those involved to see how long the non-kosher chicken was being sold at Hatzlocha Grocery on Maple Avenue.

      Orbach said the rabbis decided that anyone who purchased any meat from Shevach Meats, during the congregation’s nearly 10-year association with the supermarket, should kasher — or make kosher — their utensils when it could not be determined how long the nonkosher chicken was being sold.

      “Because of the suspicions we had with the chickens, we lost reliability on any meat,” Orbach said. “The community is devastated. That is the word. Heartbroken.”

      Orbach said the rabbis checked out Hatzlocha’s purchase and sales records, as well as talking with an employee of Shevach Meats.

      The rabbis learned that purchases from the store’s regular distributors, such as KJ Chicken, Vineland Kosher Poultry and Alle Meats, had decreased, but sales of their products had increased, Orbach said.

      “The only result is that there was some other source,” he said, adding that because of an investigation by the state’s Department of Agriculture and Markets, he could not name the alleged supplier.

      The owner of Shevach Meats, Moshe Finkel, has been accused of stocking the shelves of Hatzlocha Grocery with nonkosher chicken and labeling it kosher. Finkel, who rents space for his butcher shop behind the supermarket, bought kosher chicken and other meats in bulk, and then sliced, packaged and sold them at the grocery store and to wedding halls, religious schools and upstate Hasidic camps.

      Finkel did not return calls to his Monsey home yesterday.

      Last week, store owners discovered that Finkel had not been getting deliveries from a regular distributor and when they searched the butcher shop found nonkosher chicken.

      Orbach said he spoke with Finkel on Sunday and that the butcher told him that “his greed got the best of him.”

      “He also said he was convinced by the source that it was kosher,” Orbach said, adding that when Finkel packaged the meat, he placed false labels on the chicken.

      Orbach said the rabbis also concluded that the store owners were “victims like the rest of us,” and absolved Rabbi Shlomo Breslauer and Rabbi Shlomo Ullman, who supervised the butcher shop, of any blame, as they could not have had any knowledge of what was being delivered because shipments were made when the store was closed.

      Kashering venues, where Jews can bring pots and pans and dip them in boiling water, were set up throughout the community since the sabbath ended Sunday.

      Orbach said self-cleaning convection ovens could easily be made kosher, but older convection models and toaster ovens would have to be replaced.

      The state