Postville, IA – Exclusive To The Jewish Star Editorial: OU Working With The Union To Unionize Plant

    84

    Postville, IA – “Baloney!” — Abraham Aaron Rubashkin’s angry reaction Tuesday afternoon to an indictment handed up earlier in an Iowa court. The indictment named him, his son, Sholom Rubashkin, and two employees with more than 9,000 violations of that state’s child labor laws.

    The indictment charges the defendants “participated in efforts to conceal children when federal and state labor officials inspected that plant.” Penalties could include lengthy prison terms and run up millions of dollars in fines.

    “Crazy,” he said in a very brief telephone conversation with The Jewish Star. “For what? What did I do?”

    Mr. Rubashkin, who built a modest Borough Park butcher shop into what until recently was the nation’s largest kosher meatpacker, returned to the meeting he said he’d interrupted to answer the phone.
    Clearly he doesn’t believe anything was amiss at his plant in Postville, despite the indictment, the threat of other criminal charges related to immigration violations for which 270 of his employees have already been convicted, the interruption to the nation’s glatt kosher meat supply, and the massive chilul Hashem caused by all of the above.

    He’s not alone, of course. Some of Rubashkin’s many supporters have characterized the many accusations as a “blood libel,” and chalked the whole affair up to good old anti-Semitism.
    The United Food and Commercial Workers Union, which has been hounding the Rubashkins for years, stirred up a lot of this fuss by calling to the attention of the authorities the plant’s many deficiencies. In the end, it seems, the union will win.

    A knowledgeable source told The Jewish Star Tuesday that the OU would like to see the plant unionized under new management, and has been speaking with the union.

    Rabbi Menachem Genack, the OU’s rabbinic administrator declined to confirm that he’s been speaking to the union, but did reaffirm the threat he made back in May, reported in The Jewish Star, that he would remove the OU hashgacha from Rubashkin products in the event of criminal indictments.

    “We’re standing with that position,” he said Tuesday. Unless new management is brought in, a new CEO and new investors, he will pull the hechsher. He said the Rubashkins have two weeks.
    As far as the OU is concerned, the For Sale sign is hanging at the Postville plant.

    “People have been interested in coming in and so on — we’ve been probing and looking — but the stated issue didn’t change: there’s got to be new management,” Rabbi Genack said. In the end the Rubashkin family would probably become minority owners.

    Why not act immediately?
    “The question is the timeframe, only because Yom Tov is upon us. The kashrus was never compromised,” Rabbi Genack said. He added that the OU is concerned with the welfare of the workers, and the families of the shochtim and mashgichim in Postville.

    A union spokesman, Scott Frotman, applauded the indictment and said, “Given the seriousness and sheer number of charges, we cannot see how this company can remain in operation with the current ownership.” He confirmed that the union has been in talks with the OU.

    Getting back to our short conversation with Abraham Rubashkin, we weren’t expecting a tearful telephone confession, but his absolute certainty that there’s no merit at all to any of this would seem to more than justify what’s been said and done so far, and what’s apparently about to happen next.
    The shame of it is, it didn’t have to come to this.

    “These are not bad people but they’re just so sloppy,” said Rabbi Genack. “And because they messed up so many times, they’re just piling on.”

    Follow VosIzNeias For Breaking News Updates




    84 COMMENTS

    1. “The kashrus was never compromised,” Rabbi Genack said.” First this sleazbag Genack has to defend himself and his business then he can throw Rubashkin under the bus, I hope that you all see thru this Rabbi Genack found a way to squeeze money from another sorce. What a ….
      Remember Le Marais how he threw his own mashgiach under the bus for a fee dollars.

    2. OMG!! Agriprocessors will be unionized?? How terrible. The owners will now have to pay higher wages. How will it look to the goyim? How are they going to afford to pay the workers more and pay the attorneys at the same time?

    3. It’s time to boycott OU if they have joined forces with the terrorist unions.

      Who knows what kind of sinister stuff is going on behind the scenes – this is not poshut.

    4. OU has joined with the Unions… SHAME ON THEM!!!

      Rubashkin will shine once he has his day in court.

      in the meantime, we just sit back and watch as everything falls in place. first and foremost we will see how some self hating jews such as the OU went to great length for money and bribes from the unions and PETA. so long that rabbi Weissmandel keeps his Hashgacha, you know that the Rubashkins are innocent.

      May Hashem help “Vyitamu Chato’im Velo Chot’im Min Ha’aretz” and the truth will shine thru.

    5. Boycott the OU? You are too funny, clearly you have no clue what you are eating. You know all of those products with Frum hashgachos? Who do you think gives the hashgacha on the ingredients?????

      Hope you like vegetables. Because that is what you will be eating.

      LOL

    6. No I dont like vegetables and I garantee you that we have enough honest kashrut organizations that can give supervision on ingredients.

      Please stop these stupid scare tactics! What do you think?The world is dependent on one stupid rabbi genack?

    7. Yonason thankfully I have a dignified profession that doesn’t require me to give and take hechsherim to the highest bidder. What foul language are you talking about. You know what I think about Hashgochos? They are worse then gangsters. They are not to be trusted at all. That is a general statement. There are a few honest Rabbi’s out there I am just not sure who they are. If you don’t believe what I am saying, ask anyone that ever had the misfortune of dealing with a certifying agency.

    8. from the Ou 5,200 plant did they ever Monitor who is are isn’t legal ? The cleaner that cleans the Ou office is he she legal ? Now the Union and Forward’s are happy with the mess they done the have Started to Scrutiny Alle too with the same Baloni stuff that will force all kosher meat product’s to Cost Sky Racking prices ???? We have to pray for a good blessing year

    9. The Ou supervises almost 98% of all the ingredients used in the production and manufacturing of kosher foodstuffs worldwide. Because they are in so many places it has become almost impossible to replace them, and without their in depth understanding of all the intricate methods used in the production and manufacture of foodstuffs you would not be eating

    10. To the last poster, I recommend you learn about what makes commercially prepared food “kosher.” There are only a handful of kashrus organization (world wide) that have the knowledge base (ie. food chemists, process engineers etc.) to certify ingredients. How many Rabbi’s who give hashgachos will know there way around a plant that makes glycerin? Or a factory ship that processes fish? Or know what is a clarifying agent?

      I hope you get the picture.

      BTW, didn’t your mother ever tell you that vegetables are good for you? And Ronald Reagen made it easy for you by declaring that ketchup is a vegetable (oops, virtually all ketchup is OU or OK).

    11. “An animal slaughtered kosher requires “B’dikas Hore’oh” — inspection of the lungs. If this inspection turns up a “sircha’ — an adhesion — the entire animal is taref. The Ra’moh, whose decisions we usually accept in matters of Halacha, is lenient in this case. He permits the practice of “Mi’uch U’mishmush” — rubbing gently the ‘sircha’ between the ringers of the “bodek” and if this process removes the “sircha” the animal is kosher (Ramoh, Yore Deah, 39:13). Those who refuse to accept this lenient view of the Ramoh or question whether the ‘bodek’’ was gentle enough in the handling of the ‘‘sircha” insist that their meat be from an animal with “glatt’’ — (smooth, in Yiddish) lungs with no “sircha” at all and are willing to pay the price. So much for the basic halacha:

      May I now ask several questions. based upon practical experience:

      1) Beef cattle without a “sircha’ is very rare. At times, as little as 0- 5% are really ‘‘glatt. ‘Where does all the beef sold in New York as “Glatt-Kosher’ come from?

      2) The Ramoh (ibid) specifically excludes calves and lambs from his lenient decision concerning ‘‘Mi’uch U’mishmush,’’ Consequently, a calf or a lamb which has a ‘sircha” is treif even according to the Ramoh. What, then, is ‘‘Glatt-Kosher” veal or lamb?

      3) Poultry requires no inspection of the lungs. In fact! the lungs of all poultry is adherent to the ribs. What, then! is “Glatt­ Kosher” chicken or duck?”

    12. “People have been interested in coming in and so on — we’ve been probing and looking — but the stated issue didn’t change: there’s got to be new management,” Rabbi Genack said. In the end the Rubashkin family would probably become minority owners.

      Is OU `in the business of hostile takeovers, UNION MAFIA or just plain ole dirty kickbacks?

      Like Sarah Palin says: ‘The good ole boys club’.

      I want to know what do they want as their greedy cut?

    13. kashrus(aka ca$h-R-us), has been a business for too long. if kosher consumers actually gave a damn about the kashrus of the food they put in their mouth, we would see some reform. I’m not optimistic. the idea that merchants PAY someone to endorse their foods as kosher STINKS. This results in too many ulterior motives & livelyhood concerns that can compromise a Rabbi’s judgement should a kashrus problem arise in one of his endorsed products. rabbis & supervisors must be paid for the SERVICE (not their endorsement) they provide. they can’t be paid by the merchants. they must be working for the consumers. I don’t have the solution- but something must be done! if only you people would know what’s really going on in this industry. many supervisors/certifiers are neither qualified nor g-d fearing. I can go on & on. as consumers let’s demand action. we have the power. we are the strongest union. hashem yerachem…….

    14. Recently VIN reported that Empre is opening a new Meat product line and the Hecsher will be given by KAJ & Star K.

      Why didnt the OU get the job??? are they not the the organization supervising Empires Kosher poultry plants???

      With this peace of news in mind I would geuss that in the coniving unscruplus world of “Hecsherim” it pays for OU to disassociate themselves from Rubashkin in order to get the new Empire buisness.

      AFTER ALL OU NEEDS THE MONEY THEY MAKE FROM HACSHERIM TO FUND THEIR OTHER ACTIVITIES

    15. אוי מה הי’ לנו כי חטאנו

      “Rabbi” and “Genack”. I will forever remember the 2 words/names as two opposites.

      By jews we have many titles slogans and types of “chushuverh people”. In midst of the Rubashkin storys we have many more that came to light: There is a Ger Tzedek, (I mean heksher tzedek). There is a pious Rabbi. OU, labor-union (oops… I mean orthodox union)… [note: to Rabbi Genack, letters “O” and “L” look the same – I guess so, if immigration and hechsher go together).

      I’m sorry. Up until a few minutes ago I always considered the OU reliable. On business trips and vacations I would call OU and find out what bread is Pas Yisroel and they helped me with all my kashrus questions… But my nightmare is becoming true… They probably lied to me…

      Looking back now, when they said the multi-grain bread is 100%-Kosher-Pas-Yisreol it probably meant that it was unionized and non-child-labor-genack-in-kup.

      My message to this Rabbi (Genack): YOU SHOULD OF KEPT YOURE MOUTH SHUT.

      Acheinu B’Yisroel, Ananchnu Imachem… Kudos to Nachum Segal for starting his radio shows with this Ashreinu Mah Toiv Chelkenu nation. How dare you open youre mouth and help destroy another jewish person’s business? Terrible.

      It brings to light the following question:

      Q. On Rosh Hashonah, we have the head of a fish, or head of a sheep (rosh-keves or rosh-dahg)… Why dont we have a OU, (genack) related Rosh Yeshiva? Or a Rosh Hechsher?

      A. Because we want our year to be L’rosh, V’lo Lezonov.

      In the month of elul… Be a man… You had the guts to go and cause harm to youre fellow brother… Its time for you to step up… once more and fix it. (but please… Dont open youre mouth again, we are afraid you will harm us more).

      I end this letter, by taking my unopened bag of OU potatoe chips and throwing it in the “ashpah” (lowest level of garbage). I will not eat. My stomache is turning..

      Good night. Brother’s unite. Am Yisroel Chai.

      Yiden… Do Teshuva… Repent… Stop hurting other people to boost youre Gai-vah (rabbi-part-of-you (hashem yishmor).

    16. Is OU `in the business of hostile takeovers, UNION MAFIA or just plain ole dirty kickbacks?

      Like Sarah Palin says: ‘The good ole boys club’.

      I want to know what do they want as their greedy cut?

      In my eyes, OU is no longer reliable.

    17. in the USA

      The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty – is a legal right that the accused in criminal trials has in many modern nations. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to collect and present enough compelling evidence to convince the judge and jury, who are restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony that is legally admissible, and in most cases lawfully obtained, that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted.

      this rabbi who dont go by the USA law.

      should go back to a theird world country.

      BTW

      all the meet from south america is preduced by underage.

      and all the products made in chaina , philipines ,

      etc are made with child labor.

      rabbi genack you are a moser momon israel byad akum.

    18. Rabosai, you guys have no IDEA how the OU operates.

      There’s no COMPANY UNDER THEIR certification, that has not been implied to, to leave others and come to their certification and the COMPANIES understand on a WINK and come on over.

      There was one organization who went to the Federal Government and where it not for the othere Organizations who did not want to MASSER, the OU would’ve been under the same MICROSCOPE as AGRI/RUBASHKIN.

      So Menachem Genack, now that you see there’s a day of reckoning, how about giving this some tought before pulling the plug on Rubashkin.

      What goes around comes around.

    19. i ownder if the OU would allow its own kashruth workers to be unionized??/

      do they check ALL their NOT Jewish owned plants that they do not higher illegal imigrants.

      This is a PR stunt on Rubashkins loss.

      thsi si definatly a witch hunt.

      Name me one store or resteraunt that does not higher an illegal allien/ unducumented immigrant.

      MAYBE befor eating at any of OU establishments ask them who they employee and if their not USA citizens or legal to work here WALK out anf tell them its becuase of the OU.

      The OU should keep their kashruth standards as much as they expect from others

    20. The problem is that the Modern Orthodox have added a new ikkar to their religion, that the law is at least equal to the Torah, if not higher than it! They are not Jews, they are Americans of the Mosaic religion. These are the same people who condemn Pollard, not just for show but because they really think he did wrong.

      I am proud to have had relatives who did time in the USSR, for violating its laws; and there is no halachic distinction between the USSR and the USA. “Malchus shel chesed” is a term appropriate to mussar, and indeed we should acknowledge that the USA is a great country, and be thankful to Hashem that He has put us here, but the term has no meaning at all in halacha. There is no separate legal category for “malchus shel chesed” as opposed to “malchus horish’oh”; halacha treats their laws equally.

    21. I am shocked and disgusted by this underhanded move by OU.

      If this is what they are about and these mafia unions are their friends and they kick Rubashkin when he is down and being unjustly persecuted then we need to rethink our relying on them.

      It will take time but mark my words if the word gets out there to the large companies that the OU no longer is the gold standard rather it is the brown standard, they will drop them like a hot potato. It will not be too difficult to get some experts to train a new hashgocha force that is not in cahoots with the unions to fill the void.

      I’m certain even their Mashgichim will find this hard to swallow and may abandon them.

      We need to send a loud and clear message.

      I will start by always choosing other Hechsheirim

      over OU when available.

      This STINKS!!!!!!!! it seems everything is about $$$$$$$$$$$ well, guess what this was a big mistake and they will see alot of $$$$$$$ go out the window. Nobody is going to have rachmonus on them as they had no rachmonus on Rubashkin (or the consumer) and brought this on themselves.

    22. Anon Says:

      No one FORCED anyone to work. This picture sems to show a bunch of unemployed ex-workers looking to Sholom Rubashkin for help – maybe they want their jobs back. Maybe they worked because they needed the money – maybe this whole episode has done nothing but hurt the workers (and the Rubashkins). I dont see any of these so called children being interviewed anywhere. (even throu interpreters). And how do you think the ones that were deported are doing – they are probably trying to cross the border in search of work all over again – except now they will have to work somewhere else b/c Rubashkin can’t give them their jobs back.

      09-09-2008 – 3:27 PM

      ==============================================

      The picture is actually telling the following.

      1. where is our paycheck

      2. where is the back pay you owe us.

      3. where is our over time?

      4. why did you force me to buy a piece of junk as a car for a premium.

      5.why are you charging me premium rent for living in a laundry room with an open dryer duct vent over my head.

      6. why are you taking advantage of my little sister ..

    23. “Milhouse Says:

      I am proud to have had relatives who did time in the USSR, for violating its laws; and there is no halachic distinction between the USSR and the USA.”

      I suggest you and Aaron Rubashkin return to Russia if you really think there is no distinction between the US and Russia.

      One of the problems is in fact that while Rubashkin physically left Russia, mentally he did business like he was still there. In Russia lying and cheating workers, the government and the consumer was all part of how one succeeded. And that is how he chose to operate his business in the United States.

      Look where it got him.

    24. How about if we give OU an ultimatum

      “Unless new management is brought in, a new CEO and new investors, we will pull the patronage of their hechsher. The OU has two weeks.”

      Sounds like mafioso language ? – well what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    25. does the OU check out all the CHINESE Companies it certifies??? TALK ABOUT CHILD LABOR AND LABOR LAW VIOLATIONS!!!!

      AIN TZADIK B”OLAM ASHER LO YECHTA!

      There is no company in the WORLD that is SQUEAKY CLEAN, because if the government wants to, they’ll find something, EVEN THE PAPERCLIP YOU TOOK HOME FROM THE OFFICE AND DIDN’T PAY FOR.

    26. The OU is the most reliable Kashrus organizations along with KAJ and some of the other large kashrus organizations. All the “Heimeshe” hachshers like to bash them so that they can get the $$$$. Then you hear all about the scandels with these organizations that certify treif meat like they did in Monsey.

    27. This is despicable conduct by the OU.

      I have a MUCH bigger problem with their actions

      here than with Rubashkin’s.

      Let the heimishe velt decide how to react to this.

      The days of zero consequences to the rich and powerful for reprehensible and shameful deeds has thankfully come to an end.

    28. I hope the Rubashkin’s manage with out so called Rabbi Genack.We have to stop the crap the O-U is not Hechsher lo tzedek. This guy must back the Rubashkin’s against the union’s

    29. and there is more for those who think this is the fist problem with the potsville plant

      Pollution

      On August 31, 2006. Agriprocessors signed a consent decree where they essentially admitted discharging untreated slaughtering wastewater into the Postville sewerage system, in violation of Federal and Iowa State law and paid a $600,000 fine for violating waste-water regulations[15][16][17] Untreated wastewater from abattoirs is a heavy burden on wastewater treatment plants because of its high biochemical oxygen demand and high concentration of FOG (Fats, oils, and grease) which can form insoluble plaques in sewerage pipes.

      Starting in 2004, city authorities started an investigation against Agriprocessors due to complaints from local residents that they routinely deposited untreated effluence into local rivers in breach of regulations. On August 31, 2006. Agriprocessors signed a consent decree[15] and paid a $600,000 fine for violating waste-water regulations.[16]

      still think they are clean and worth protect as good frum yiddin

    30. The OU is trying to compete with the conservative movements “Hechsher Tzedek”! The OU has no right to be talking to the UNIONS!

      OU has mashgichim in the Agri plant, they say the meat is either kosher or not, according to this clown who runs OU he says it is kosher, that being the case OU should mix out! The CHaUTZPAH of the OU! The next thing will be is that the OU will say that they are making too much of a profit and they should share it with the worker! Like the democrats are doing to the big oil companies

    31. The ou was waiting all along ,all theis years to hurt the rubashkins ,they allways hated the rubashkins ,i have heard many times belski talking on the radio against rubashkin ,they cant wait till rubashkin closes ,then they’ll go to empire (to the meat line)….

      ou allways hade double standers when it came to the rubashkins !!!!!!!!!!!!!

      well what goes around comes around

      i personally are boycotting any product or restaurant that only has a ou hecsher ..

      To all rubashkins and suporters ,i know its tough ,but keep strong you have more suporters and friends then you know (hashem should have racmones)

    32. No one FORCED anyone to work. This picture sems to show a bunch of unemployed ex-workers looking to Sholom Rubashkin for help – maybe they want their jobs back. Maybe they worked because they needed the money – maybe this whole episode has done nothing but hurt the workers (and the Rubashkins). I dont see any of these so called children being interviewed anywhere. (even throu interpreters). And how do you think the ones that were deported are doing – they are probably trying to cross the border in search of work all over again – except now they will have to work somewhere else b/c Rubashkin can’t give them their jobs back.

      09-09-2008 – 3:27 PM

      ================================================

      No one is forcing the rubashkins to keep the ou , But if you want the ou than you must comply. its very simple math.

    33. So, the O-U has suddenly discovered that there is a problem. You mean they saw nothing all these years until now?

      This is part of the union’s organizing campaign, and the O-U cowards are shamefully taking the side of the corrupt union against an Ehriche Yid.

      Rabbi Weinreb, shame on you!

    34. This will mark the beginning of the end of the OU

      unless they get rid of the evil geniuses that came with this brilliant idea of stabbing Rubashkin in the back with a UNION dagger while they are in trouble. How sick!!!!!!

    35. What is it with our frum world? Why is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault? If you want to know where the problem lies, look in the mirror. We cannot decide to observe only some mitzvot that we like, and ignore other mitzvot because they conflict with our business interests! Lying and cheating is lying and cheating. If you will cheat goyim, you will cheat yiddin. If you lie to goyim, you’ll lie to yiddin. If you can’t figure out how to make a profit it doesn’t mean it is ok to cheat your workers on their wages. If the meat isn’t exactly glatt, it doesn’t meanit is ok to shake off the schiros so you can sell it as glatt. If we try to fool others, the only person we end up deceiving is ourselves and we become fools in the eyes of our children.

    36. Call the OU at 212-613-8372 & let them hear from the Klal

      by yehuda on 2008-09-10 at 11:34 AM

      ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      dcall the ou and commend them for fightingting and supporting true kashrus and not rubashkin kashrus. its about time the ou sees the truth. first kaj had to leave because of kashrus concers now its time for the ou to join them at empire.

    37. i hate to break the news to you, but the kaj did not remove thier hashgacha due to kashrus concerns, go ahead and call them yourself, oops i forgot you aren’t interested in fact, just rubashkin bashing.

    38. 11:15 – good point. The OU employees, I believe, are not unionized. I hope they all have benefits and pensions etc. The pay scale stinks and women are treated like cattle. No promitional opportunities etc. they feel they should pay the men higher simce they are the breadwinners for their families – however, the women wo work are usually supporting kollel husbands and they need the money more.

    39. to GH – No one is forcing the rubashkins to keep the ou , But if you want the ou than you must comply. its very simple math.

      You only have to comply with halacha of shechicta and Rubashkin has done that.

      Frankly – heimish hechsherim have a lot to gain without the OU – my daughter school does not permit ou pareve for snacks from home – they want a heimish hechser – I think I can actually live without them

    40. You beautiful Jews are just as quick to jump down OU’s throat as you are down Rubashkin’s. It seems there needs to be more maturity and temerity. Wait, think, the truth will come out.

      I know members of the Rubashkin family- beautiful Jews. I know RABBI Genack-beautiful Jew. How dare some of you refer to him in a disrespectful manner?!?

      He is Rav of a shul and is responsible to millions of Jews for the reliability of his symbol. Its not so simple as you all think. And finally don’t trust what the press says and don’t trust what the unions say!!!!

    41. “BTW, didn’t your mother ever tell you that vegetables are good for you? And Ronald Reagen made it easy for you by declaring that ketchup is a vegetable (oops, virtually all ketchup is OU or OK).

      09-09-2008 – 7:19 PM

      It was Newt Gingrich who said ketchup is a vegetable. And George H.W. Bush hates broccoli.

      Other than that, there is no other comment in this string worth responding to. 2/3 of the posters here are either trolls or just astoundingly stupid. And being that most of the writing styles seem to match, I suspect most of the comments are the work of one or two individuals with some some agenda that goes well beyond any concern about kashrus.

    42. i am boycotting any symbul or restaurant that only has ou

      the ou finally got theyr way ,they are waiting for this opertunity for years ,they allways hated rubashkin ,you could see the hatred every time belski spoke on the radio whether it was on zev brenner show or in rabbi reismans shul ect…well now they have it ,they are taking advantige …its a shanda to see what turned out from the ou,

    43. I feel tha Rabbi Genack finally did something that made sense.

      We keep on saying that the Rubashkins did nothing wrong. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE STINK FROM IOWA. You have a presidential candidate that knows that they employed children. And you still think that nothing was wrong?

      Still a tremendous chillul Hashem, but certain people are in a state of denial. I cannot figure out who they think they are protecting?

    44. I feel tha Rabbi Genack finally did something that made sense.

      We keep on saying that the Rubashkins did nothing wrong. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE STINK FROM IOWA. You have a presidential candidate that knows that they employed children. And you still think that nothing was wrong?

      Still a tremendous chillul Hashem, but certain people are in a state of denial. I cannot figure out who they think they are protecting?

      09-10-2008 – 4:49 PM

      #1 ,PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE MAKING THE BIGGEST CHILLEL HASHEM ,YOU BY BASHING ANOTHER FELLOW GOOD YID !!!

      #2 PRESIDENTAL CANDIDATE ,ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!

      OSAMA BARAK ,YOUR BRINGING & BUILDING YOU FACTS FROM OSAMA AGAINST A YID WHO DID NOTHING WRONG ,

      THE ONLY REASON HE IS SO POPULAR IS BECAUSE HE IS AFRECIAN AMERICA ,YOUR SO OUT OF WACK ,THAT GUY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE’S DOING !!!

    45. Meatloaf, show me any source that draws a halachic distinction between the laws of the USA and those of Russia. Show me where “dina demalchusa” applies less in Russia than in America. It has nothing to do with which country is more desirable to live in. There’s no question that the USA is a wonderful country; but its laws are no more binding than those of any other country.

      There is no moral obligation on ANYBODY to obey ANY country’s laws; no legislature has the power to change what is right and wrong. If something is wrong (e.g. abortion), it remains wrong even if a country’s laws shamefully allow it; and if it’s right (e.g. buying or selling goods or services at a mutually agreed price) then it remains right even if a country’s laws forbid it. Shmuel’s memra that “dina demalchusa dina” does not create an obligation on anybody to obey any law.

      Oh, and RU Savvy, Gingrich never said any such thing – and nor did Reagan. But when it was discovered that you get more lycopene from tomato sauce than from raw tomatoes my first reaction was “Yes! Ketchup IS a vegetable!”. Seriously, it was a Department of Agriculture proposal to revise the standards for school lunches. It pointed out that if you made sure to give kids ketchup, at least they’ll eat it, while if you give them broccoli it won’t do them any good if they leave it on the plate. Quite sensible, but once the media got hold of it that was the end of it.

    46. anon Says:

      to GH – No one is forcing the rubashkins to keep the ou , But if you want the ou than you must comply. its very simple math.

      You only have to comply with halacha of shechicta and Rubashkin has done that.

      Frankly – heimish hechsherim have a lot to gain without the OU – my daughter school does not permit ou pareve for snacks from home – they want a heimish hechser – I think I can actually live without them

      09-10-2008 – 2:15 PM

      ============================================

      For all those who want to kmow what heimish means? it means the Masgiach stays in der haym and collects his check. Fumy and very true.

    47. Milhouse said…

      “There is no moral obligation on ANYBODY to obey ANY country’s laws; no legislature has the power to change what is right and wrong.”

      Tell it to the judge.

      Are you in business? If so may HaShem protect you. I sure hope the IRS isn’t monitoring this website, for your sake. In a week or so, go back and reread what you’ve written today. You’re in serious need of a neshoma check-up.

      The OU to their credit did such a check-up and realized they were wrong. They are now starting to move in the right direction and that may help keep this plant from going under. Kol HaKavod.

      BTW, I distinctly remember seeing Reagan on TV at a press conference talking about ketchup being a vegetable. SNL may have done a skit about it as well since everyone else was making jokes about it.

    48. hey guys

      i think ill cll the ou and tell them that i am startinga campagain against every resturaunt in new york city that has their hechsher to see if they have any illegal workers

      i will call all the resturaunts that have their hechseher and say since the ou want you to have no illegals and you havetheir hechsher i am letting you know that i will be calling the immigration department on you

      and also all the beautiful hotels for yom tov that have their hechsher i will call and make sure they are unionized and have no illegals and warn the hotels that by accepting the ou hechsher you are opening the door to a union and an immigration check

      then i will call all the plants in the us that have their hechsher and make sure they are unionized and if not i will let them know that by haveing theou they are opening their door to the union because the ou is working hand in hand to unionize companies

      how does that sound ?

    49. OK gives a hechsehr on enough ingredients to keep us going for a long time.

      now we see what the OU is really all about, who are they to ask the owner of a business to sell or they will take off the hechsher.

      how comes their mashgichim didn’t notice for all these years, that there were minors working at the plant, either because it is not true, or because they are a worthless hechsher.

      how dare they talk to the Union about someone else’s business.

      let them stick to kosher stuff not politics.

      have they no shame before Rosh Hashonah, we are the ones who will suffer from all this, the Union Mafia will only bring up the price of meat.

      G-D runs the show, the Rubashkin’s are good people and will come out on top at the end.

      To the Rubashkin family be strong, Klal yisroel is stands behind you.

    50. smart Says:

      I feel tha Rabbi Genack finally did something that made sense.

      We keep on saying that the Rubashkins did nothing wrong. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE STINK FROM IOWA. You have a presidential candidate that knows that they employed children. And you still think that nothing was wrong?

      Still a tremendous chillul Hashem, but certain people are in a state of denial. I cannot figure out who they think they are protecting?

      09-10-2008 – 4:49 PM

      #1 ,PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE MAKING THE BIGGEST CHILLEL HASHEM ,YOU BY BASHING ANOTHER FELLOW GOOD YID !!!

      #2 PRESIDENTAL CANDIDATE ,ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!

      OSAMA BARAK ,YOUR BRINGING & BUILDING YOU FACTS FROM OSAMA AGAINST A YID WHO DID NOTHING WRONG ,

      THE ONLY REASON HE IS SO POPULAR IS BECAUSE HE IS AFRECIAN AMERICA ,YOUR SO OUT OF WACK ,THAT GUY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE’S DOING !!!

      ********************************************

      This is what I was talking about. ‘smart’ thinks that Rubashkin is ‘A YID WHO DID NOTHING WRONG’. That is the worst tradgedy of this whole thing. I sit here in my house in Brooklyn and read paper after paper of the OSHA violations that he pleaded guilty to and paid a fine and the pollution violations that he pleaded guilty to and paid a fine and all the violations and indictments that are pending that people were already sentenced to and were given punishment and ”A YID WHO DID NOTHING WRONG’ is the best thing that he can say.

      A person like that is in self denial. Anything that we say will fall on deaf ears with them.

      Unfortunately, Rubashkin will fall and the only one to blame is Rubashkin, himself. But he had a lot of help from ‘friends’ like ‘smart’ who, instead of saying that there could have been an improvement, still claims that he is ‘A YID WHO DID NOTHING WRONG’.

      Make no mistake. The loss of Rubashkin will be a tradgedy for Jews in the US. He was a source of acceptable meat to some people and the tzedaka he gave was legendary. But he treated his goyish workers like dirt, did not care about American laws and lived the American Dream while making others live a nightmare.

    51. Anonymous Says:

      OU against Rubashkin….child labor…..lack of response from the OU on NCSY child molestations….

      Is there a connection?…..

      09-11-2008 – 8:24 AM

      **********************************

      Don’t be stupid and don’t look for conspiracy theories.

      The OU finally got tired of being embarressed. When there is a question of Kashrus, it went to MMW. When it came to bashing the Kashrus in the press, everyone blamed the OU.

      No one likes to jump on a fellow Jew. Especially when he is down. The OU tried to give mussar to improve Rubashkin and all they got was nothing in response.

    52. Meatloaf, now I know you are dishonest. When you run out of arguments you make threats (as if the IRS can tell who I am).

      When someone breaks the law they are taking a risk, which may not work out. But when a woman goes out at night in an unsafe area and gets raped, do you blame the victim? Do you say she deserved what she got? What she did was not wrong, just unwise, and while she brought it on herself, she didn’t deserve it. How is that different than someone who breaks a law and risks getting caught? He also may be unwise, even reckless, but he isn’t doing anything wrong, and doesn’t deserve the punishment that he will get if he’s caught.

      Even if I were actually breaking any laws (and what makes you think so?), why would you say that my neshoma needs a check-up? Taking risks is not an avera. Your neshoma, on the other hand, is at serious risk; when the Rubashkins come lemaalah, all the people they have helped will be there to testify on their behalf, but when you come there, all those same people will testify against you. I have no doubt that the Rubashkin family has a special place in Gan Eden; I wonder whether you will ever see it. You have no loyalty to your fellow yidden, why should anyone be loyal to you?

    53. PS: Meatloaf, I’m still waiting for you to prove that there is a halachic category for “malchus shel chesed” that distinguishes its laws from those of any other “malchus”.

    54. Oh, and if you remember Reagan saying ketchup is a vegetable, check out the Alzheimers homes, because your memory is playing tricks on you. Just because SNL made fun of it doesn’t mean Reagan said it; he didn’t.

    55. Give the OU credit. What makes you think they didn’t raise issues with Rubashkin before now? Are you privy to all the conversations they’ve had? Maybe the OU is reacting because they feel the situation has gone over the edge. Maybe they’re trying to save this plant so yiddin will have a large supplier of kosher meat and the only way to do that is to restore the confidence of the kahila in the plant. Finally, the only way to restore the confidence in the kahila and take this issue off the front page of every newspaper, is to get the Rubashkin’s out of the picture. Smart move by the OU and in the best interest of the kosher consumer.

      As for the union: a) Other frum plants operate with the union, so why not; b) the union has over a million members – think they can find American workers to fill the jobs and get this plant up and running at full speed? And finally, after all the Gedolim have left – like those who took part in the Gilligan’s Island 3 hour carnival ride – who will be in Postville to look out for the interests of the workers? Rabbi Wiessmandl? No thanks. We’ve been through this once, and once is enough. Its time we realized places like Agri need a union, not just for the workers, but for the sake of our own ability to sleep at night knowing that yashrus as well as kashrus is being observed.

    56. Make no mistake. The loss of Rubashkin will be a tradgedy for Jews in the US. He was a source of acceptable meat to some people and the tzedaka he gave was legendary. But he treated his goyish workers like dirt, did not care about American laws and lived the American Dream while making others live a nightmare.

      09-11-2008 – 5:57 AM

      I guess you don’t know the rubashkins ,you probaly would’t even know who he is if you pass him on the street !! you said he lived the america dream while making others live a nightmare #1 THE RUBASHKINS DO NOT LIVE AND NEVER LIVED THE AMERICAN DREAM !!YOU ARE DREAMING !!YOU DON’T KNOW THEM !!! YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW THEY LIVE !!

      #2 “making others live a nightmare” ????

      i mean its mind boggling to see how you people don’t begin to know the rubashkins ,you guys belive everything every anti semite or lib. or anyone that has an agenda to get agri .

      let me tell you the rubashkins treat guyim with the most respect !! you could ask anyone who knows them in the business world ,now mabey there were some issues of mistreating workers in their plant ,that has nothing i repeat nothing to do with them ! they never knew about it ,i don’t say this for a fact because i wasnt their but knowing thies people who they are i’m confident that they did nothing wrong !!

      let me ask you ,why are they diffrent then all other company that when some accusations against companys come out of mistreating or abuse in some deparments ,then its the company ,but no one blames the boss ,how is he suppost to know every single thing ,he has a company to run ,but when it comes against a heimsha yid ,all you jew haters are out there bashing him!!! you guys make the biggest chillel hashem !!!

      one thing you are right the loss of rubashkin will be a big tragedy for the jews ,on that i’ll agree with you

    57. Smart said…

      “no one blames the boss ,how is he suppost to know every single thing ,he has a company to run ,…”

      Several individuals met separately with Sholom Rubashkin over a number of months and TOLD HIM about the mistreatment, shorted paychecks and even the extortion. He knew. He even heard it directly from workers (those workers who met with him to complain were fired the next day).

      The Chief Executive Officer of a company is responsible for knowing and addressing all issues in his establishment. The buck stops at his desk.

      BTW, a few years back the IRS mad a change that required all CEO’s to sign a statement when submitting company tax returns that they had read, understood and swore that the return is accurate. The IRS took away the excuse that the return was prepared by someone else and therefore the CEO wasn’t responsible. The buck stops at his desk.

      At Agriprocessors the buck stops at the desk of the Rubashkin’s who were in charge of day-to-day operations.

      The loss of Agri would be an inconvience but not a tragedy. A tragedy is child molestation. A tragedy is murder. A tragedy is cancer. Loosing Agri – something I’m not convinced will happen – will only be an inconvience, and it is an inconvience we can live with.

      The real issue is what will we do to see that it doesn’t happen again. Here, the OU seems to be on the right path, but we’ll have to wait and see.

    58. TO MEAT LOAF

      #1 how do you know that individuals met with sholom rubashkin ?were you their or they told you ? even the “holy “media that everyone believes never mentioned that !! so if you want to make a spin off ,no good did’nt work !!

      #2 do you belive that every ceo reads every tax return ? lets take an example ,mr.schriber from b&h ,do you think he reads every tax return ,or alle processing ,do you think mr. weinstock goes through each tax return or lets go to the bigger companys walmart, shoprite ,do i have to waste my time ????? their is no such rule ,i like the way you think ,mabey you should consider your self becoming a novelest ,you have a good imagination ,

      every company including agri has advisers, senior officers, genrall managers,and so on ,the boss doesnt get involved in every aspect of the business …(btw every company has a c.p.a. that does the taxes!!)so meat loaf we know you cant stand the rubashkins but ain’t going to help you

    59. So far I haven’t seen any evidence of workers being shorted on their pay. I’ve seen allegations, but no evidence. That is the only allegation that, if true, would make me think less of the Rubashkins. Every other allegation, I don’t believe, but I also don’t care about even if it were true.

      As for why not work with the union, it’s because ALL unions are gangs of thugs that extort money by threat of violence and sabotage. Gantz poshut, why pay people more when you can get the same work for less. It’s exactly the same as when you go shopping; do you buy from a more expensive place when you can get the same thing cheaper? Signing with a union is like signing a contract that you will buy all your clothes from Barneys, at full price, forever; why would you do that?

    60. Smart says …

      “#1 how do you know that individuals met with sholom rubashkin?”

      The meeting took place in the Jewish library on Lawler. Shalom spoke to his managers about the meeting and they fired the workers. It has been confirmed.

      #2 do you belive that every ceo reads every tax return ?

      Whether he reads it or not, he has to sign a form that attests to the fact that all information is accurate and that he is responsible for the accuracy of the numbers. Don’t ask me, ask your CPA.

      I take no pleasure from the troubles at Agriprocessor. It is an aweful situation and a shanda. It could have been avoided and there were many people who spoke to the Rubashkins and asked them to address issues at the plant.

      They did not.

      I will not drink a l’chiam when they go to jail or pay a huge fine or are forced to sell the company. But I am deeply distrurbed by the unwillingness of the frum community to come to terms with what has happened. I am deeply disturbed by those think this is all because of the unions, or anti-semitin, or jealeous competitors. This happened because of greed.

      Milhouse:

      Shortage of paychecks and evidence has been reported to the Wage and Hourly Division of the Labor Department. From my meetings with workers it seems to have been more prevalent among those working on the chicken line then those working on the beef line although there were reports of both.

      As for shopping based on the lowest price, a) you get what you pay for, and; b) My wife and I, our children and most of my friends will not shop at Wal-Mart. Your argument reminds of the yiddin who stopped keeping kosher because it was too expensive. Some mitzvot you keep even if it costs you a little more.

      Your argument against unions is like the anti-semitin argument that all Jews have big noses and are cheapskates. Sorry it doesn’t wash. There are good unions and bad unions, just like there are good companies and bad companies. Should non-Jews judge all Jews by the owners of Allou or by people like Miliken? So why would you make a blanket statement that ALL unions are gangs of thugs? BTW, the United Food and Commercial Worker’s Union are big supporters of Israel. They bought more than $30 Million in Israel Bonds a year or two ago to add to the Bonds they already own. Baruch HaShem they still have Jewish members including shochtim who have raised families on good union wages and will retire with a good union pension. Unions built the middle class in this country and that allowed a lot of yiddin to succeed, go to college and become doctors and lawyers … and even Rabbis.

    LEAVE A REPLY

    Please enter your comment!
    Please enter your name here