Postville, IA – OU To Remove Hechsher From Rubashkin If No New Management. Rabbi Weissmandel: My Hechsher Will Stay

    136

    Postville, IA – Following the filing of criminal charges against owners of the kosher meat producer Agriprocessors, the Orthodox Union says it will withdraw its kosher certification of the company within two weeks unless new management is hired.

    “Within the coming days, or lets say a week or two, we will suspend our supervision unless there’s new management in place,” said Rabbi Menachem Genack, the O.U.’s head of kosher supervision.

    Genack’s comments came just hours after Iowa’s attorney general filed criminal charges against Agriprocessors and its owner, Aaron Rubashkin, for child-labor violations.

    Agriprocessors has been under the gun since a raid on May 12 resulted in the arrest of nearly 400 employees on illegal immigration charges. Following the raid, employees alleged they were shorted on pay, forced to work long hours and were the targets of sustained sexual harassment.

    In May, the company announced that the Postville plant’s manager, Sholom Rubashkin, would be replaced. Months later, Rubashkin is still a regular presence at the plant and no replacement has been named.

    The attorney general’s complaint represents the first criminal charges to be brought against the company’s owner and senior management.

    U/D 4:35
    Rabbi Weissmandel who also provides kosher certification for Rubashkin plant told VIN News in a phone interview “My job and expertise is strictly kosher supervision, as long as the strict guidelines of Kosher Shichitah is followed in this plant my Hecsher will stay on”. said Rabbi Weissmandel.

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    136 COMMENTS

    1. Its so sad when you see Yidden rooting on the fall of a family that has provided Kosher for millions of people. What is it about this country that we like to build people up and then tear them down.

    2. Isnt that Hechsher Tzedek’s idea? Arent we HUGE hypocrites here?

      Is the food Kosher or not? If you DO care for Chilul Hashem and Humane Practices – then wahts wrong with Hechsher Tzedek?

    3. deepthinker Says:

      THIS HAS ALL THE EARMARKS OF A HIT JOB.

      SOMEONE HAS PUT OUT A CONTRACT ON RUBASHKIN.

      HE IS THE LARGEST SUPPLIER OF GLATT KOSHER MEAT IN THE U.S.

      MY GUESS IS THAT IS AN UNHOLY ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE “ANIMAL RIGHTS” FANATICS AND THE NEW CONSERVATIVE “HECHSHER TZEDEK.’

      09-09-2008 – 3:30 PM

      ================================================

      Because he was the biggest producer in the usa is exactly he reason why he THOUGHT he was untouchable and can do whatever he wants.

      He tried paying off everyone from the govnt to the kashrus agencies and look where all this go him. Think twice before you try to be machshil your own brothers and sisters

    4. Shame on OU!!!!! I am not surprised that they are wimping out. It is unbelievable that they can be so gullible. I guess their high paying jobs and prestige win out over defending the rights of their fellow Jews. This will only spread more sinas chinam. If they succeed in removing their hechsher, they will only cause a chillul ha-shem.

      May Hashem continue to bless the Rubashkin family.

    5. annon 3:48, I agree with you.

      Take into account that they needed an outsider to make crucial decisions for them. What did they think till now? What changed? It just makes matters even worse.

      Just like the old saying goes “kick ’em when they are down!”

      It very shameful!!!

    6. Looks like now we cant trust the ou either

      you mean to tell me that out of all the hechsheirim they give ONLY RUBASHKIN had out of all their thousand employees some minors working for them. In other words over the entire world only Rubahkin did such a “terrible crime?”?? Why are they only targeting the Rubashkins DOESNT SMELL RIGHT TO ME

    7. I can’t believe that anyone is giving the Rubashkins ANY benefit of the doubt. This is a company that despite numerous warnings eagerly and willingly hired children to do industrial work. While it is legal for minors to engage in certain types of labor, working at a meat packing plant is certainly not one of them!!!

      For those who think this is an attack on shechita, think again. The company was not charged with anything having to do with slaughter, despite the fact that their methods, to say the least are questionable.

      For those of you who claim this is a hatchet job, perhaps. But they willingly walked into the trap. Although I do not take pleasure in anyone going to jail, especially yidden, I will be very happy to see these people go to jail and Agri go out of business ASAP!!! They are not the only producers of kosher product. They just happen to be the ones who use immoral and illegal methods to do so. Does Empire, Alle, A&H Rosenblatt, Wise etc. engage in these types of activities???

      If anything, the OU has been asleep at the switch and should have revoked a long time ago!!!

      I refuse to use their products…SO SHOULD ALL OF YOU!!!

    8. OH MAN

      I CANT WAIT TILL THE OUHAS TO TAKE OFF THEIR HECHSHER FROM OTHER PRODUCTS THAT THEIR OWNERS WERE CHARGED WITH A CRIME

      THE HIDDEN FILES AGAISNT THE OU WILL NOW BE MADE PUBLIC. THEY ARE TAKING A BIG CHANCE HERE

    9. Now that the OU is getting serious about getting Rubashkin to follow the rules and regulations of Kashrut and the US Gov’t. I think I can finally trust the OU Hashgacha for kashrut again.

    10. while I can’t help feeling sorry for the rubashkins, I must say I haven’t been eating their product for a while now due to serious kashrus allegations that were never properly addressed. comsumers have a right to know what’s going on- & rubashkins have been less than forthcoming to put it mildly.

    11. I have heard plenty of stories from a friend who certifies some out of the way plants under the OU – his feeling is that they are more concermed with collecting their fees than anything else – and like any good business where no one know the difference you cut corners to save money – they should really keep their mouths shut

    12. The OU has to feel comfortable in a place. If the owners are criminals, then according to many poskim they have no reliability for kashrus. For those who don’t care about criminal behavior, rabbi Weissmandel’s hashgacha is good enough. The OU didn’t respond before because they were just allegations. Once criminal behavior is likely, the OU must respond in kind. I don’t work at the OU, but I heard them explain how they decide to pull hashgachos.

    13. Don’t more of you have anything serious to say about the allegations? What would your position be if they hold up? – I work for law enforcement (and wear a black hat) – and I am certaincan that charges such as this, especially the large number of them, would not be made lightly by a state Attorney General’s office. Very sad . . . both Agriprocessors and many of the reactions here

    14. 3:48…I guess yuo mean 4:14. If 4:14 doesn’t want to eat their products, the A&P is having a special. Just your speed. You want Jews in Jail? Why? Because they don’t wear the same levush or pray like you?

      Next thing you’ll all be crying that the price of meat & poultry is through the roof & demand far exceeds supply. Too bad, YOU did it with your petty jealousy & Sina.

      Nice job, fellow “Frum Yidden!”

    15. FYI!!! they are targeting Empire and other producers as well, and the final goal is to bring the Jewish people to their knees…

      The OU is getting big bucks to do what they are doing… the Rubashkin’s couldn’t out bid some shmucks out there…

      this is dirty, and for no reason…

      Hashem should help these special people get out of this fast and easy.

    16. Dear 4:30,Last time I checked, the A&P stopped carrying Agri and replaced them with a competitor. Just because someone is frum does NOT excuse them from having to pay the price if they do the crime. If you think that people should be absolved from having to be punished when they commit crimes just because they are frum, you have a SERIOUS problem. Furthermore, you need to seriously reexamine your moral compass.

    17. What does a couple dozen kids who lied to work have to do with a hechsher?

      Is the meat now not kosher because someone was 17 instead of 18 when he cut up the veal chops?

      Who is OU in bed with?

      Again, my friends, the question:

      Who is OU in bed with?

    18. Yidden,

      This is sad.What we need to learn from this is to follow ‘dina demalchisa’.America is a ‘malchis shel chesed’ but cannot allow big companies to break laws.

      Sorry to say that once the trouble started the company should have handled the issue with more ‘seychel’.This reminds me of the case with New Square, where they(new square) were screaming ‘antisemiten’, thinking it would help.Instead of making a deal/plea they ended up with a couple of people in ‘tefisa’ and 10 million fine

    19. so now the ou seems to have courage

      there sister group YU has a woman/man professer and they say nothing

      they give us boruch lanner and coverup

      but now with the rubashkins they suddenly have courage

      i smell a rat

    20. I really can not believe that there are people taht are actually condoning Rubashkin and what he did.

      They are the same type people that were on the Titanic as is was going down and they were looking to blame the pilot, instead of runnung for their lives.

      Let us see who we can blame:

      The unions

      PETA

      The workers

      Hechsher Tzedek

      The competition

      Yudel Shain

      The OU

      but never, never Rubashkin

      And for all of you that think I am a sonei Yisroel – I will lie down my life to save another Jew. Our religion is all we have to differentiate between us and the goyim. Being Jewish is our onlt ticket to Gan Eden, after 120 years. But I will not stand by when someone IN THE NAME OF YIDDISHKEIT says that it is alright to do what he did.

    21. http://www.state.ia.us/government/ag/latest_news/releases/sept_2008/Child_Labor%20.html

      this is a criminal complaint based upon the idea that illegally working non-Americans can provide testimony in a criminal matter. from the PR by the Iowa AG:

      According to the Affidavit: “All of the named individual Defendants possessed shared knowledge that Agriprocessors employed undocumented aliens. It was likewise shared knowledge among the Defendants that many of those workers were minors. The company’s hiring practices encouraged job applicants to submit identification documents which were forgeries, and known to contain false information as to resident alien status, age and identity.”

      The Affidavit said: “Each defendant, either as principal or as aider and abettor, hired children, retained the employment of children observed working throughout the plant, and/or participated in efforts to conceal children when federal and state labor department officials inspected that plant.”

      In other words, the allegations are based upon accusations, shared knowledge, essentially beliefs of illegality, (IE LH). how about a simple fact question such as, “did the company fulfill its legal obligation to check and record ID presented by prospective employees?” save the rumors for yom kippur.

    22. Will people stop blaming anti semitism and instead focus on slopiness and bad judgement??

      C’mon, it’s becoming silly that no matter what we hear about Agri it always ‘antisemiten’!

      I wish them well, but they need to immediately get proffesionals to run the company!

    23. Did you ever think that the OU is actually saving the company with this move?? Everyone tried helping them – they are incompetent in helping themsleves.. At least this way they will still own a company. The OU isn’t stabbing them – they are saving them!@

    24. 1. What’s so holy about the OU?

      2. Ladies and Gentlemen, let’s eat meat and chicken ONLY on Shabbos and Yom Tovim. Watcvh prices plummet.

      3. Jealousy should not play a role in rescinding a certificate and even if it does not, the OU is, as usual, respondig to public opinion, not to kashrus.

      4. I am glad Rabbi Weissmandel has decided to only look at the kashrus, and at NOTHING else.

      If he keeps giving a hechsher, that’s fine with me.

      5. The OU reminds me of some beis dins. It’s not the law that matters, it’s who you know and how much money you have, and how much they donate or slip you. Fakers.

    25. If Rubashkin gan get away with child labor and pay a few bucks less so that I can have cheap franks, KOL HAKAVOD TO HIM.

      Being a slimeball in business has nothing to do with how much I trust him in kashrus.

    26. To 5:24: There is no question that the OU is stabbing the Rubashkins in the back. I have lost trust and respect for the OU. If the OU turns their back on Agriprocessors, they along with the union and PETA will be responsible for their demise, C’V.

      The OU is a spineless organization.

      Yasher Koach to Rabbi Weissmandel for his courage in standing behind the Rubashkin family.

    27. Why is everyone crying?? Is this the end of kosher meat in the US? We have had kosher meat in this country for over 350 years. Schechita started here long before the Rubashkin family knew of the existence of the New World.

    28. The O/u supports far more grievous ethical travesties in things they are involved in. They just keep it under the rug. What hypocrites to dump on Rubashkin that is not even being accused of crimes that the o/u perpetrates.

    29. It seems to me that if the OU had the oversight which we would expect from the agency providing the hashgacha, their people would have known everything that was going on in the plant (illegals, minors, abuse etc.).

      So now we must ask 1) was there an issue (albeit not a kashrus issue) that they were ignoring, 2) maybe there was no problem and the OU is just bending to outside pressure 3) Maybe the OU saw the problems but because it wasn’t a technical kashrus issue they did not make it public.

      At this point there is no way to tell and I think its wrong to accuse either Rubashkin or the OU until all the facts come out.

    30. You can no longer eat Rubashkin products! How can you trust the OU? They are not trustworthy, Mr. Rubashkin throw the OU out the window and bring in either OK or Kof K.

    31. No one is crying for “them” we cry for “ourselves” as the price of kosher meat will sharply go up once this giant competitor is closed. If you didn’t notice, soon after the raid the price was hiked, now think what happens if it’s out……….

    32. anonymous Says:

      comments – arrow If Rubashkin gan get away with child labor and pay a few bucks less so that I can have cheap franks, KOL HAKAVOD TO HIM.

      Being a slimeball in business has nothing to do with how much I trust him in kashrus.

      09-09-2008 – 5:57 PM

      Is this a joke, so you have no problem with ethics as long as you get your product that you want for a good price?

      Has the frum community completely lost its soul? It seems so, since many here do not think Rubashkin did anything wrong and would still buy his products even if all the allegation are true.

      It seems so, sadly.

    33. To all those worried about the price of kosher meat: worry instead about what it means to be a Jew.

      Worry instead about Jewish law.

      Worry instead about Jewish ethics.

      Worry instead about what we are teaching our children about kashrus when we support a company that violates Torah.

      Worry instead for the future of the Jewish People if we are more concerned about a stickel of fleish then we are for the ethics of am hayehudim.

    34. Unlike in other productions or food outlets, where an owner/operator of a business has to be trusted most of the time when it comes to kashrus, in the kosher meat industry its not so. The majority of operations are under hashgacha temidis every step of the way. That’s how the system is set up & its quite hard to override or bypass the kashrus system.

      That’s why I don’t buy the argument that because the owner is indicted it makes him untrustworthy.

      Neither does it make any sense for the OU to punish Rubashkin for past policies that no longer exist, namely illegal aliens or minors as employees.

      Has the OU given prior warning to stop the practice or else?

      Is the OU convicting the current management without due process?

      Or, Is the OU just using this lame excuse as a way to break the contract, because of other interests?

    35. enough is enough i like my kosher meat and the more you fools talk the less of it there is. they are being charged with underage workers working at the plant. i was working when i was 12 life is tough some people cant give their kids everything. if those kids at 15-17 wanna work please let them. thats all they have them on. as for the illegals a bussines is not allowed to confirm the persons identity its illegal. so their is no way for them to know if they are illegals.

    36. It’s not Rubashkin’s job to check each document for forgery. His kashrus is 100%, period.

      I wanna know who here ever checked the documents of their ‘spanish’ cleaning ladies (maids) or their help in each and every retail food store in 5 boros plus rest of the country? They are all illegals!

      For some reason so many here get satisfaction from Rubashkin’s demise, why? This is outright “sinas chinom”.

      The OU is removing their hechsher for political reasons. For me Rabbi Weissmandl is just fine, good bye OU.

      I wander if the maids that clean the OU offices are documented or illegals?

    37. to Meatloaf: Worry instead about blood libels

      Worry instead about yidden who indict fellow Jews without just cause.

      Worry instead about what we are teaching our children when frum yidden turn against their own.

      Worry instead for the future of the Jewish people if we are more concerned about what the goyim think of us than we are about our fellow Jews.

    38. I am emailing the OU telling them how disgusting their behavior is. After, I am emailing every restaraunt with an OU telling them that if they still want my business, they have to change hashgachas. BTW, I have a corporate account, I spend an average of 40-70$ a lunch, and thats when I dine alone, I am allowed to have a guest each meal.

      We have 11 frum guys in my office and each have meal accounts. All have agreed. We will not eat in an OU establishment if the OU pulls their hechsher from Rubashkins for reasons unrelated to kashrut

    39. I have lost all respect in the OU after this latest move. As for the leaglity, the OU is under contract with Rubashkin, and unless there are kashrus violations – which haven’t been made, they can’t walk.

      I hope that Rubashkin exposes the OU for its true colors.

      As for the allegations, Rubashkin asked the govt to identify any aleeged minors, yet they were unable to do so. This is nothing but a shrewd move by the prosecution. The Rubashkins will successfully defend themselves against the bogus charges. The govt has zero evidence, other than hearsay from a bunch ofillegals who purchased fake working papers. By charging them for the minors, and not about the alleged accomplice in forged documents, its obvious that it was a calculated move to besmirch the Rubashkins.

    40. Michal, educate us: What does the Torah say about how a Yid is supposed to treat his workers, about following dinim of the Malchus, about business ethics? What have we become?

    41. I just called some friends, we are up to 15 people that will no longer patronize OU resteraunts. One friend is chickening out because he loves the food at Talia’s, too bad, its a good place.

    42. It seems no one here cares about the underage children working in dangerous jobs. BTY, there is evidence that rubashkin supplied the false documents themselves and had an office full of false documents for the workers to fill out. In addition the government has notified Rubashkin numerous times that the social security card were bogus, so the claim that rubashkin knew is not far fetched at all.

      However there is allegation if one reads the whole indictment that Rubashkinn cheated them out of wages. Is that also okay as long as one get cheap kosher meats?

      Rubashkin it seems caused this mess himself,

      what really surprises me (or, to be honest it does not surprise me at all, since when I was a young bocher the yeshivas i went to were scamming the government left and right and even had the bocherim sign papers that they were working, when that was a blatant lie. I am proud to say I was the only bocher to refuse to participate in that scam)saddens me is that most people here don’t care about anything as long as the food is kosher. You seem to have a very low moral value.

      Since even if all allegation about rubaskin is true and you are convinced that it is true you see no problem with what he did, as long as it put cheap meat on you table, and of course the meat was mehadrin. Beis Shama would be applaud

      by your attitude and kick you out of his beis medresh

    43. Recently VIN reported that Empre is opening a new Meat product line and the Hecsher will be given by KAJ & Star K.

      Why didnt the OU get the job??? are they not the the orginization supervising Empires Kosher poultry plants???

      With this peace of news I would geuss that in the coniving unscruplus world of “Hecsherim” it pays for OU to disassociate themselves from Rubashkin in order to get the new Empire buisness.

      ALL IN ALL OU USES THE MONEY MADE FROM HACSHERIM TO FUND THEIR OTHER ACTIVITIES

    44. Re: ” I thought the Rabbis who visited the plant said everything is ok.”

      Agri deceived the Rabbis who visited the plant (including Rabbi Mandel and Rabbi Elefant from the OU). On the tour, they only showed the Rabbis proper shechitah conducted by a shochet but two weeks later PETA caught on film general workers gouging the animals right after shechitah.

      If the Rubashkins can’t even be trusted to tell the truth to the Rabbis who went there to defend them, how can we ever trust them?

    45. deepthinker Says:

      THIS HAS ALL THE EARMARKS OF A HIT JOB.

      SOMEONE HAS PUT OUT A CONTRACT ON RUBASHKIN.

      HE IS THE LARGEST SUPPLIER OF GLATT KOSHER MEAT IN THE U.S.

      MY GUESS IS THAT IS AN UNHOLY ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE “ANIMAL RIGHTS” FANATICS AND THE NEW CONSERVATIVE “HECHSHER TZEDEK.’

      09-09-2008 – 3:30 PM

      ================================================

      Because he was the biggest producer in the usa is exactly he reason why he THOUGHT he was untouchable and can do whatever he wants.

      He tried paying off everyone from the govnt to the kashrus agencies and look where all this go him. Think twice before you try to be machshil your own brothers and sisters

      =============================================

      the ou WAS in bed for a long time with rubashkin but all that came to a halt when the feds walked in on them naked.

      the ou has no choice because they can be held accountable too . What surprises me is that why they didnt pull out way earlier when they saw trouble.

      I have my doubts now on the relabilty of the ou.

    46. the OU is not the ACTIVE HASHGOCHA at AGRI, contrary to popular belief & the image the OU & AGRI project. The only one who wears the pants in AGRI (kashrus-wise) is R’ M M Weissmandl. He is the ACTIVE HASHGOCHA & THE ONLY ONE IN CONTROL. The OU endorses AGRI based on their reliance of R’ Weissmandl. The OU is just there for their strong & worldwide brand recognition.

      Therefore if OU does withdraw their certifcation is shouldn’t make one ounce of a difference for consumers in the kashrus standards considering the fact that the OU today doesn’t make a difference. if you like weissmandl you’re ok. if you don’t like weissmandl but are relying on the OU, you’ve been warned

    47. That Rabbi Genack is awesome!!! If I wasn’t a 12 year old illegal immigrant working in a plant with no time to spare, I would vote him for president!!! Genack 2008!!!!

    48. Let’s all make a “maachoah” (proclamation) against eating in any restaurant under the OU supervision until such time that Menachem Genack asks “mechila berabim” from Mr. Rubashkin

    49. Michal Says:

      To 5:24: There is no question that the OU is stabbing the Rubashkins in the back. I have lost trust and respect for the OU. If the OU turns their back on Agriprocessors, they along with the union and PETA will be responsible for their demise, C’V.

      The OU is a spineless organization.

      Yasher Koach to Rabbi Weissmandel for his courage in standing behind the Rubashkin family.

      09-09-2008 – 6:01 PM

      ===============================================

      your an ignoramous. of course weissmandel wont give up, its his bread and butter. hes not standing up for rubashkin hes standing up for his pay check

    50. Yichok, I’ll take you one step further!

      Let’s stop eating ANY food with the OU on the label, Restaurant, Grocery, Supermarket, Candy Store, etc.

      Each and every one of us shall organize his whole family and ask his family to organize all the extended family and on it goes untill KLAL YISROEL is gonna stand up for this FARBISENE Chilul Hashem of the OU.

      BTW, Where’s Reb Yisroel Belsky with his outspoken concern and outrage about all AVLES in our midst but none about the shame in his own very office!

    51. Some of the comments here are ridiculous.

      A 9000 count indictment hardly represents what anyone would describe as the government going fishing. What 9000 counts means is that the government has detailed employee records, and they are going to pursue this vigorously. Don’t be surprised if after discovery, the Rubashkns plead out. Remember, the “geez your honor, I thought she was nineteen” defense doesn’t work.

      Rubashkin et al didn’t build Agri so that they could do some great toiveh to klal yisrael. They built Agri to make money. Lots and lots of it. I’m not saying they aren’t baalei chesed. I’m sure they are. But those who suggest that Agri was built as some sort of shrine to chesed are probably the deed holders to the Brooklyn Bridge.

      The OU has every right to pull its hechsher. Like any owner of intellectual property, they have the right to protect their equity. In fact, they’d be fools not to. Agri today is a liability to any of its associates, corporate or otherwise. Just like Nike pulls its endorsements for personal misconduct of its spokespeople, OU can and should pull its hechsher if it feels its association with Agri is detrimental to the value of the OU moniker.

      Speaking of Nike, these guys go to China and send teams of inspectors to factories checking and validating every employee, making sure that emplyee standards for health, cleanlines, living conditions, not to mention pay, are appropriate. In fact, many factories pass on Nike business because they just can’t get certified by them. And those that do tell Nike that to meet these standards the factory will increase its prices. Nike has no problem with paying more. They understand that their brand equity is far more valuable than any profit model. Agri should have taken a page from Nike.

    52. To Yonason,

      yes we are obligated to follow the laws of the land in which we reside. However, we are not obligated to follow laws that go against our own. The Torah obligates a Jew to deal with their workers with kindness and compassion, and the Rubashkins certainly have done so. In addition, according to Vayikra 25:43, we are commanded “not to rule him (slave) ruthlessly”. This is certainly not the case here. The Rubashkins have given their workers higher wages compared to other meat packing plants, health insurance and safe working conditions as evidenced by the video of the rabbonim who came to visit the plant. The workers there did not complain of abuse, in fact, as I remember from the video they seemed very satisfied working at the plant. None of them expressed any complaints.

      Yonason, personally I feel many of the posters are embarassed, and they feel they have to justify their feelings by going against their fellow yidden. They are blind and they are not willing to see the truth.

      I believe what Yenta Pasha posted in the beginning. When all is said and done, everything that is happening is from Hashem, and he is testing out emuna and bitochon. Let’s see who will pass the test.

    53. Meatloaf wrote:

      Worry instead about Jewish law.

      Worry instead about Jewish ethics.

      Worry instead about what we are teaching our children about kashrus when we support a company that violates Torah.

      That’s precisely it. I do worry about Jewish law and Jewish ethics, and I wouldn’t want to support a company that violates Torah. Now show me where in the Torah it says that a person under 18 shouldn’t be employed. I don’t give a damn about what the state of Iowa thinks. (And don’t bother quoting me anything about “dina demalchusa” unless you’re prepared to PROVE 1. that it creates a positive obligation to obey the law; AND 2. that it applies to governments which do not have the power to expel anyone from their territory.)

    54. Did Rubashkin go to Guatemala and kidnap little toddlers from kindergartens, smuggle them into Iowa on slave trucks and then chain them to benches and force them to flick chickens in hot, unhuman cells?

      Or did a bunch of teenagers show fake ID, and then make out multiple complaints, compounded by the minute like lawyer’s fees, in order to claim a U-visa so they can stay in the U.S.

    55. “Michal Says:

      to Meatloaf: Worry instead about blood libels “

      You must mean Aldolpho – the young Guatemalan who lost a hand in meat grinder because Rubashkin failed to follow lockout/tag out machine safety procedures at Agri. That’s REAL blood libel.

      “Worry instead about yidden who indict fellow Jews without just cause. “

      9,317 citations of child labor violations sure sounds like “just cause” to me. But if that’s not enough for you wait for the Federal indictments which will come out tomorrow against two of the HR people arrested at Agri. Today.

      “Worry instead about what we are teaching our children when frum yidden turn against their own.”

      I guess you don’t believe we have an obligation to teach our children about dina malchusah dina. A thief is a thief, a liar is a liar and a cheat is a cheat. Tell me, did the frum yidden who bought apartments and were cheated out of their deposits recently, “frum yidden” who “turned against their own?”

      “Worry instead for the future of the Jewish people if we are more concerned about what the goyim think of us than we are about our fellow Jews. “

      Worry about what our children will think of us when they see the hypocrisy in our words and deeds. And we wonder why our children leave our community.

    56. I wanna know who here ever checked the documents of their ‘spanish’ cleaning ladies (maids) or their help in each and every retail food store in 5 boros plus rest of the country? They are all illegals!

      ********************************

      And therfore? And your point is? We agree that most people do not check their cleaning lady legality but the law states that we must and we do not. We are breaking the law when we do not do background checks.

      Schools, yeshivos are supposed to do background checks but NOT ONE YESHIVA does. We are not always compliant with laws but in these particular cases it’s not because we do not care or are bad people but we just do not realize the importance of the law.

      Now go check on your live in cleaning lady and Rubashkin will not have any problems anymore!

    57. Does anyone else see how pathetic all you sound. You have a persecuted victim mentality, and refuse to believe that Rubashkin may have been wrong. It is like the parents who can’t believe their child misbehaved.

      I think it has reached the point where it is so clear that anyone who still holds out believing in Rubashkin, well, I can’t think of an appropriate thing to write. But I can really not believe how any of you can still believe that it is all Peta, or it is all the Union’s fault, or it is all anti-semites, … it is everyone else’s fault but the Rubashkins. Now some of you are even making it sound like it is the children’s fault.

      Let us all face it. As wonderful as Rubashkin MAY have been in the past, their operation has gone downhill, and has well crossed the line.

      To be honest, I don’t even care if they do get new “management.” They need a whole new name, new policies, new ownership … and I would not trust that company as long as they are still selling treif out of the same building.

      Now that MM Weismandl said he will stick by Rubashkin no matter what, I will no longer trust his hechshers anymore. He has lost credibility.

    58. Milhouse Says:

      “I don’t give a damn about what the state of Iowa thinks.”

      If that is what you truly believe I’m sure we can arrange for a cell near those who are about to develop an appreciation for the kosher cuisine in Levenworth. In this country (as opposed to Chelm) you obey the law or, you go to jail.

      “Babishka Says:

      Did Rubashkin go to Guatemala and kidnap little toddlers from kindergartens, smuggle them into Iowa on slave trucks and then chain them to benches and force them to flick chickens in hot, unhuman cells?”

      Rubashkin or his agent, advertised in the Prensa Libre newspaper in Guatemala for men to work at a meat plant in Postville, IA. The ads appeared two weeks after the May 12th raid. A great strategy since it worked several years ago and the Guatemalans are hard workers.

      “Or did a bunch of teenagers show fake ID, and then make out multiple complaints, compounded by the minute like lawyer’s fees, in order to claim a U-visa so they can stay in the U.S.”

      The fake ids were provided by supervisors and people in the HR department (ICE confiscated hundreds of “blank” ids from the Rubashkin HR department). U-visas are only available to people the US Government wants to keep in this country because the are WITNESSES TO A CRIME. Once the situation has been adjudicated in court, their is no guarantee the “witness” will not be deported.

    59. Michal Says:

      To Brooklyn Rabbi:

      Sinas chinam is blinding you.

      09-09-2008 – 9:33 PM

      ==============================================

      negeeyus and your paycheck and shochad is blinding u

    60. so you are saying since we , you break the law it is okay. If so, one can ever ever be convicted of any crime since other people do it too.

      And remember there is much more going on at Rubashkin, read the affidavit he cheated them out of the measly pay he was (or not) paying them. By definition he is a ganov if it is true.

      It is amazing how the frum community can get together to protect the criminal element from our own. whether a cheat or a child molester. I feel like I am living in an upside world.

      I guess one can excuse the frum shady electronic stores since no one put a gun to their head to buy the products from them. Or, one can say just move whan a frum slumlord buys the apartment buiding you lived in for many years. It is not the frum landlords fault that you did not move.

      It all goes back to a very simple concept. A FRUM PERSON CAN DO NO WRONG IF ACCUSED IT IS ONLY BECAUSE OF ANTISEMITISM. The evidence, please it was all made up.

      Sadly this is what many in the frum community think

    61. How you guys can ATTACK ATTACK and ATTACK Rubashkin, despite the fact that they have not been indicted on anything!!

      These are only charges, which very well may be defended.

      Shame on on all you jumping a fellow Jew when you want mercy from G-D on Rosh Hashana et.

    62. To meatloaf: It is unbelievable you can’t see the lies that are being perpetrated against the rubashkins. I believe you really desire to see the Rubashkins fail. For shame!!

      I have my full trust in Rabbi Weissmandel. If he sticks with the Rubashkin family so will I.

    63. אוי מה הי’ לנו כי חטאנו

      “Rabbi” and “Genack”. I will forever remember the 2 words/names as two opposites.

      By jews we have many titles slogans and types of “chushuverh people”. In midst of the Rubashkin storys we have many more that came to light: There is a Ger Tzedek, (I mean heksher tzedek). There is a pious Rabbi. OU, labor-union (oops… I mean orthodox union)… [note: to Rabbi Genack, letters “O” and “L” look the same – I guess so, if immigration and hechsher go together).

      I’m sorry. Up until a few minutes ago I always considered the OU reliable. On business trips and vacations I would call OU and find out what bread is Pas Yisroel and they helped me with all my kashrus questions… But my nightmare is becoming true… They probably lied to me…

      Looking back now, when they said the multi-grain bread is 100%-Kosher-Pas-Yisreol it probably meant that it was unionized and non-child-labor-genack-in-kup.

      My message to this Rabbi (Genack): YOU SHOULD OF KEPT YOURE MOUTH SHUT.

      Acheinu B’Yisroel, Ananchnu Imachem… Kudos to Nachum Segal for starting his radio shows with this Ashreinu Mah Toiv Chelkenu nation. How dare you open youre mouth and help destroy another jewish person’s business? Terrible.

      It brings to light the following question:

      Q. On Rosh Hashonah, we have the head of a fish, or head of a sheep (rosh-keves or rosh-dahg)… Why dont we have a OU, (genack) related Rosh Yeshiva? Or a Rosh Hechsher?

      A. Because we want our year to be L’rosh, V’lo Lezonov.

      In the month of elul… Be a man… You had the guts to go and cause harm to youre fellow brother… Its time for you to step up… once more and fix it. (but please… Dont open youre mouth again, we are afraid you will harm us more).

      I end this letter, by taking my unopened bag of OU potatoe chips and throwing it in the “ashpah” (lowest level of garbage). I will not eat. My stomache is turning..

      Good night. Brother’s unite. Am Yisroel Chai.

      Yiden… Do Teshuva… Repent… Stop hurting other people to boost youre Gai-vah (rabbi-part-of-you (hashem yishmor).

    64. Amazing Says:

      How you guys can ATTACK ATTACK and ATTACK Rubashkin, despite the fact that they have not been indicted on anything!!

      These are only charges, which very well may be defended.

      Shame on on all you jumping a fellow Jew when you want mercy from G-D on Rosh Hashana et.

      09-09-2008 – 10:40 PM

      =============================================

      so u are maskim that once they will be indicted (which i have no dout about they will be) then u will step up to the plate and admit in a public forum that u were wrong al along? or will u say that the jury was antisemitic?

    65. do you think rubashkin really put an ad in the paper in gautemala two weeks after their raid?!?!? do you have proof that it was them or their agent that put it in the paper and not the union trying to frame them?

      you once again have found your fellow jews guilty even before the us legal system has! which ahs a policy 100% percent innocent until found guilty in court.

    66. you statement “I’m sure we can arrange for a cell near those who are about to develop an appreciation for the kosher cuisine in Levenworth. In this country (as opposed to Chelm) you obey the law or, you go to jail.” is disgusting, you obviously cant wait to see tehm in jail

    67. The OU is doing to Agri the same thing the RCA did to Rabbi Tendler becoming judge and jury before all the facts are in. The OU should’ve said that until these allegations are proven in a court of law they stand behind them. What would be the OU’s response if consumers who care about other people started to boycott products with the OU hechsher?

      Somone once said to love the Satmerer Rebbe (he was talking about reb yoelish z”l)and Reb Ahron Kotler z”l is not “Ahavas Yisroel” because how could you not love them. Real “Ahavas Yisroel” is when you love a fellow yid even if they’re not so perfect.

    68. post 23 unbelievable! is not the word off your post. email to me (berish613@msn.com) even one posek who says this mimra I will send you a thousand dollar check.

      post 55 no kashrus has nothing to do with ethical behavior can you show me one marei mokem? what’s all this mgela punim shlo khaloch.

      and by the way studying the report I can’t figure out the 9000 counts if there where only 32 underaged workers?! meatloaf can you answer me where is the 9000 counts is this a bacteria that multiply?

    69. its elul… hashem is watching

      yes he is to see if you are as keeping all the mitzvas bein adom lamokom and bein adom lachavra (yes even to a goy)and not only bein adom lamokom.

      I feel his anger, do you, boycott Rubashkin now Do Teshuva… Repent if not the year to come will not be to pretty. hashem will take vengance on those who mistreat his creations and their supporters.

    70. post 55 no kashrus has nothing to do with ethical behavior

      while maybe not directly but there is a concept of Mitva habo averra a mitzva that comes through a sin in no mitzva at all. Maybe you forgot that

    71. What does this have to do with the price of rice in China? Says:

      What does a couple dozen kids who lied to work have to do with a hechsher?

      Is the meat now not kosher because someone was 17 instead of 18 when he cut up the veal chops?

      Who is OU in bed with?

      Again, my friends, the question:

      Who is OU in bed with?

      09-09-2008 – 4:41 PM

      =============================================

      The ou is (was) in bed with Rubaskin untill the feds caught them with thier pants down.

      What surprises me is that the ou being the biggest hechsher in the world would risk thier reputation up untill they get caught red handed.

      only reason the ou is threatning to leave is because they can be charged as an accomplice because they knew all along about all the shinanegans going on behind closed doors

      .

      I really have my doubts now not only about rubashkin but about anything the ou gives a hechsher on. they new they were dealing with criminals even ask weismandel

    72. I said it weeks ago- the end of this sad story will be the forced sale of this business to new owners who will clean house and try to rebuild the company with a new management team. The OU’s squeeze is a step in that direction. The company continues to lose market share and R will be forced to sell soon.

    73. Yosef 4:26 PM,

      Why is it that people have such joy in showing off their ignorance.

      “If the owners are criminals, then according to many poskim they have no reliability for kashrus. For those who don’t care about criminal behavior, rabbi Weissmandel’s hashgacha is good enough.”

      ———-

      The clear halacha is: If a person is a known thief, he has no ne’emanus in Choshen Mishpat, but because “aid echad ne’eman bi’isurim”, he still has ne’emanus in yoreh de’ah. You have “poskim” who say otherwise from shulchan oruch? sources please.

      secondly (or perhaps firstly) we say “havay don es kol adom likaf zchus.” The government says there were minors at agri. we know that. Did Rubashkin knowingly hire underage workers or not? The government has to prove they did, agri has to prove they submitted convincing false documents showing they were over 18. Because the LAW in this country says a person is innocent until proven guilty, the OU is scum for assuming that agri is guilty when the government and the law do not.

      ___________________________

      “The OU didn’t respond before because they were just allegations. Once criminal behavior is likely, the OU must respond in kind.”

      ———

      Therefore everyone who is indicted is assumed guilty? Not in the country I live in with a big red white and blue flag, and it isn’t Australia, it isn’t Englad, and it sure as hell isn’t France.

    74. political analyst 4:24,

      “..I must say I haven’t been eating their product for a while now due to serious kashrus allegations that were never properly addressed.”

      ——————-

      Which kashrus allegations are those that you know about but none of the dozens of rabbanim, shochtim, or USDA inspectors at the plant seem to know about.

    75. Spineless move by the OU. What happened to WAITING to see what the jury says???

      Dunno but maybe the new management for the plant will be Empire? They want to start doing meat and this may be the perfect oppertunity for them.

    76. Gentlemen- It is time for the Rubashkin family to call a conference with the Agudah, Young Israel, YU

      and Some major Roshei Yeshivas. They should address the Issues at this time within the guidelines of their attys (due to chgs) and specifcally the Kashrus issue and what they have done to address the governmental issues aside from dealing with the chgs of past alleged abuses.

      They should also seek to make an alliance with Both Satmar Rebbes and obtain the CRC hechsher.

      Rubashkin will go down(as many competitors wish)and many poor Jews will suffer economic distress as a result. Aaron Rubashkin does not realize that his past “tough guy attitude is history.” He must begin immediately, building a strong new image and how Agri will be run in all respects. His current response has been a failure! Period! He must REINVENT the Agri name , image and what it represents or he can kiss it all goodbye like the Banks and Brokerage firms who were unwilling to deal with the difficult issues that faced them. Every concern must be met HEADON! And where the critics are wrong they too must be aggressively answered to the point.

      Get the PR system moving- and let’s all the critics piskis shtain fuun hintin!!!!Deal with the issues and resolve them !! It’s time u allayed all the customers fears and rumors and issues as they will make u or BREAK U chas visholom!

    77. Shame on the ou! They are the most corrupt spineless union out there. Thank you rav wiessmandel for sticking for true tora. Hey ou don’t let the door hit in the tush on the way out. Am yisroel chai..this is a war againt all kosher eating jews! Now I will only buy rubashkin.gnite

    78. post 109 ethical is a evira correct? tell me what you are doing on this blog is not a evira? besides the point the shcotim did not do in averia so if your delivery boy will do a averia would you not eat from the grocery order which delivered for you would you?

      post 113 4:24 is stam a ferd what does this have to do with this article? obama is looking for another political adviser I think he should join him they both have the same iq.

    79. lets just say it is all business. the ou and rubashkin. i have a question for rabbi weismandel,when the situation arises such as the theater or a cruise ship or other places where there is no regard for tznius or other things happening but the food is kosher do we still allow a hechsher to be given. it seems to me if a person chooses to do business dishonestly thats ok. i eat out in pizza or bagel stores, it ammazes me that the person taking the money is a frum jew(the owner) but the people dealing with the food are not even jewish.

    80. to matzahlocal,

      can’t speak for the usda inspectors, but the shochtim are well aware of the violations. not sure exactly which rabbonim you are reffering to. are you reffering to mashgichim?

    81. Matzahlocal101 Says:

      The clear halacha is: If a person is a known thief, he has no ne’emanus in Choshen Mishpat, but because “aid echad ne’eman bi’isurim”, he still has ne’emanus in yoreh de’ah. You have “poskim” who say otherwise from shulchan oruch?

      ****************************************

      Clear Halacha? sources please.

      A Jewish ‘min’ is not allowed to shecht. Chulin, 13a.

      The Mechisists who call the Rebbe ‘Boreinu’ are minim. Therefore, they cannot shecht and Rubashkin is treif.

      A

    82. Rubashkins are good people… there are some yidden who thrive when another yid is down…

      its time to support them even more….supoort

      thank you rabbi weissmandel….

      I HOPE genack davens real hard rosh hashana…

      al tamod bdam rayecha….

    83. Rubashkins are good people… there are some yidden who thrive when another yid is down…

      its time to support them even more….supoort

      thank you rabbi weissmandel….

      I HOPE genack davens real hard rosh hashana…

      al tamod bdam rayecha….

    84. When will the GEDOLIM come out with a ‘kol koreh’ announcement about this? Let’s see if the next ‘Jewish Observer’ will discuss this and how cwe should react

    85. GEDOLIM? U MUST MEAN THE ketanim. The ketanim didnt say boo when this whole rubashkin fraud started years ago, so why should they start talking now . Besides dont you know that the BIG ketanim are aftaid of the Rubash-kins mafia tactics unlike the KAJ AND THE OU.

    86. anonymous Says:

      Matzahlocal101 Says:

      The clear halacha is: If a person is a known thief, he has no ne’emanus in Choshen Mishpat, but because “aid echad ne’eman bi’isurim”, he still has ne’emanus in yoreh de’ah. You have “poskim” who say otherwise from shulchan oruch?

      ****************************************

      Clear Halacha? sources please.

      A Jewish ‘min’ is not allowed to shecht. Chulin, 13a.

      The Mechisists who call the Rebbe ‘Boreinu’ are minim. Therefore, they cannot shecht and Rubashkin is treif.

      ***************************************

      According to this, the meat is ossur if a mechichist slaughters it. How do we separate the meat? Is it only Shor Habor that is treif?

    87. post 24 supreme has not chabad shochet name me one who well get that check my email in post above. shoar habor has chabad shcotim but the crown heights beis din forbids meshcistin and its well known in crown heights

    88. Milhouse Says:

      Anon 5:43, you’re a liar. The number of Lubavitchers, even meshichists, who use that term, is statistically equal to zero.

      09-10-2008 – 5:58 PM

      *****************************************

      You can yell from here to tomorrow, but you will have to prove it to me and the rest of the world.

    89. berish Says:

      post 24 supreme has not chabad shochet name me one who well get that check my email in post above. shoar habor has chabad shcotim but the crown heights beis din forbids meshcistin and its well known in crown heights

      09-10-2008 – 7:01 PM

      *********************************

      Unfortunately, you have no idea what you are talking about. CHK forbids meshichists? In your dreams, maybe.

    90. Anon 3:55, again with the lies. I don’t have to prove anything, you’re the one making an accusation, it’s up to you to prove it. Prove that there are a statistically significant percentage of Lubavitchers who use the term you mentioned.

    91. Milhouse Says:

      Anon 3:55, again with the lies. I don’t have to prove anything, you’re the one making an accusation, it’s up to you to prove it. Prove that there are a statistically significant percentage of Lubavitchers who use the term you mentioned.

      09-12-2008 – 12:04 AM

      **************************************

      I know 3 that work in CHK. THey tell me that there are many more. You, of course, would love to see them lose their jobs.

      I also do not have to prove anything to you. In your eyes, Rubashkin did nothing wrong. Child Labor, Osha, USDA, all minor nusances in order to get more meat to the masses. Pay the fine, go on with business?

      How many lives were ruined because a safety guard was missing on the bandsaw and someone lost their fingers? No, to you, it was the cost of doing business. Pay the fine then fire the kid.

      Dump salt down the drain and ruin the water table? Do not tell the state environment board what you are doing. Just pay the fine ($650,000) and let all the groundwater in Iowa be salty. Just a cost of doing business.

      Run trucks on Shabbas? Remember, Rubashkin uses no hetarim. Whoops – we let that one get by.

      There was acceptable meat before Rubashkin and there will be acceptable meat after him. hether he wants to continue in business is up to him. It is HIS choice to act HEIMISH or BEHAIMISH.

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