Tel Aviv – After failing to reach a deal with El Al that would see the company operating separate flights for the ultra-Orthodox sector, rabbis are now calling on their public not to fly with the Israeli company at all, and prefer foreign airlines instead.
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Ahead of Passover, the high season for visits in Israel and abroad among haredim, the rabbinic committee on transportation has published a statement urging the public to fly only with airlines that offer movie-free flights, or flights with designated areas that are movie-free.
They also included a list of the recommended airlines, and specified which of them also applies a modest dress code for its crew.
Dirty movies on El Al flights?
Rabbi Yitzhak Goldknopf, who is taking part in the efforts to introduce “kosher flights,” told Ynet that negotiations with El Al were ongoing, and expressed hope that an agreement will be struck soon.
Although on El Al’s major flights every passenger can turn off his personal TV screen, and on some of the other flights the company operates a “movie-free” zone, the rabbis ordered their followers to refrain from flying wit the Israeli airline.
Goldnkopf explained that “contrary to El Al, these companies screen only movies showing water and scenery, and not dirty movies.”
El Al said in response that “there have been no negotiations regarding designated flights for haredim only. There was an attempt by one travel agent to fill an entire flight with haredi passengers, but it fell through.
“Had he succeeded, El Al might have been willing to look into the possibility of making certain adjustments, as it does when an organized group occupies a whole airplane.”
The gaavah of unzere is breathtaking. If you don’t like it shut your eyes or fly your own gulfstream-5.
B”H rabbi goldknof, instead of trying to stop people from flying elal why not encourage all frum fliers to ask the guy next to them to put on tefillin…. like those lubavitchers do.
think positive… focus on positive everything else will fall into place.
We are not chareidi but we are Orthodox. We returned to Israel in late August and were the only religious on one of the last flights out of Miami. We were subjected to 12 hours of disgusting, I mean absolutely disgusting visuals with no place to turn. Not using headphones didn’t help the vile language because when it came to Israel TV, we had subtitles that included “F” bombs written out and the “S” word as well.
We fully support the efforts of the “ultra” religious and in fact these in flight movies should be all sanitized if they are being shown on the “big screen.” There ARE children present as well as those of us who, regardless of age, don’t choose to view smut.
Perhaps these rabbanim are endorsing using ships to get to and from Israel. As far as I know every airline shows movies on transcontinental flights. The off switch worked fine for me – is there something I am missing. Is somebody looking for a free a flight? Perhaps a naschgiach on every flight along with the security guards will not only protect us physically, but spritually as well. 🙂
We are not chareidi but we are Orthodox. We returned to Israel in late August and were the only religious on one of the last flights out of Miami. We were subjected to 12 hours of disgusting, I mean absolutely disgusting visuals with no place to turn. Not using headphones didn’t help the vile language because when it came to Israel TV, we had subtitles that included “F” bombs written out and the “S” word as well.
We fully support the efforts of the “ultra” religious and in fact these in flight movies should be all sanitized if they are being shown on the “big screen.” There ARE children present as well as those of us who, regardless of age, don’t choose to view smut.
These demands are ridiculous, especially when they don’t have to turn on their personal tv screen and so can avoid the movies if they want.
Its disgusting from this rabbi to try to control El Al they are a private airline, and whoever doesn’t want to look the screen they should close it, why time after time these Rabis are taking on losing battles and they know the boycott won’t work and won’t help.
this is one more example of the corruption of our clergy behind the guise of daas torah.el al does not show “dirty” movies. if the yeshiva boy cannot be trusted to show good judgement when sitting crammed amongst other yiddelach, picture him free on the streets of nyc.we have muscle and our rabbonim are good at flexing that muscle, did anyone tell them that they are making torah unpopular!
;
In the good old days when our Rabbonnim didn’t behave like ‘cowboys’ Yiddishkeit was so much nicer.
No wonder we have so many drop outs with this ‘gung-ho’ approach.
sharia law…
i wonder which rov flew all the airlines and made a full list of movies, length of skirts etc……..
can anyone explain this statement?
Goldnkopf explained that “contrary to El Al, these companies screen only movies showing water and scenery, and not dirty movies.”
Today at 01:42 AM
Anonymous Says: The gaavah of unzere is breathtaking. If you don’t like it shut your eyes or fly your own gulfstream-5.
It’s even easier, just turn off your screen!
in ultra orthodox judaism there is always the balance between new chumrahs in seperation of the sexes and the inherent jewish trait to save as much money as possible.
if a flight is $20 cheaper the charedim will take it, no matter what the flight attendant is wearing or what movie is playing.
the rabbis here just want to show how powerful they are.
Reply to #1 . Sorry but irregardless of whether u enjoy watching a movie ona transatlantic flight or abhor ita, there is nothing wrong with an organized group using its economic power to get its way. If El-Al will feel the effects on its bottom line , it will surely acquiesce to the demand and if not, not. But what pray tell is wrong with the concept? What’s wrong is when a chasidishe person comes onto a flight and refuses to sit down nwext to lady and delays the flight etc, that is gaavedig!!!!!
I don’t understand what is wrong with El Al here, if each passenger has his/her own screen. We should not be forcing our own chumrahs on others.
Leave off with it. Let every one do wat they think is good for themselves. we ain’t needa worry bout their sins or wat. others DO need it.
“negotiations with El Al were ongoing, and expressed hope that an agreement will be struck soon.” == we will get some money from them.
These rabbonim have too much time on their hands, they should stick it up their tuches and open a gemara
Some people are just bored to death so they pick fights – about ANYTHING. They probably don’t work and have nothing to do. There’s “frum” and there’s “crum”
Typical chareidi behavior / bullying – my way or no way. They will support the poor economy on their terms. Don’t like it, too bad. It never seizes to amaze me.
each seathas its own screen and if you want to change evryone YOU CANT so there you have it and TAKE IT AND EAT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are not happy with EL-AL go find yourself a different company,they will all have screen big or small.
It is bad enough that these people will not watch a movie but now they want their own flights! Turning off their screens is not enough! Unbelievable!
Shame on the coments above, the Rabbonim have no hidden agenda, and not being gaava-dig c”v, its hard on a long flight for anyone not to switch on the TV screen, and the Rabbonim are just trying to help Klal Yisroel.
The comments are distructive and even if you disagree with Rabbonim do you really have to trash them — they are moiser nefesh for us and our brpother, both in America and Israel 24 hours a day.
I personally go to Israel twice a month and see heimishe people watching the movies on the long trip and in NY or Yerushalayim these people would not dare.
But the uncivilised talk against out heilige rabbonim must stop.
now there’s another thing 2 check into 4 a shidduch- does he fly el-al?
Tell ’em rabbi
Just one clarification. Not all flights have personal screens. When we made aliya this past summer it was old style- one big screen at the front of the section.
I still do not agree with what they are trying to do- especially as when a travel agent did try to put together a flight which would be “mehadrin” he could not get enough people to sign up (even though El Al was willing- which says to me it is not the airline being “anti Torah” so much as the people being “anti not-doing-exactly-what-we-want”).
Are you rabbis insane? Hashem’s torah is ‘derachai shalom v’derachai noam’, you are defeating the purpose of a frum Jew. The only fair answer is: Teach and hire only Charedei Pilots, buy your own airplanes, train male stewards and run your own business, problem might be GETTING PASSENGERS.
There arent enough Farfrumta Flyers for ElAl to afford this. Let them fly Saudi Air if it fits them better. Genig shoyn!
I was actually just on a plane and I saw plenty of Jewish people either with their screen off or catching their sleep. Plus there is not only movies you can watch the flight map which you might get bored of and fall asleep.Anyways why did they choose El Al to pick on? Why not Isra air, Continental… All these flights have many Jewish people
Good – see how well the goyish airlines treat you. Chutzpa
A thought:
Charter airlines are just about the easiest businesses to set up. There are lots of unused aircraft parked in the California desert that can be leased, and lots of laid-off pilots and flight attendants who would love to have jobs. There are contractors that offer baggage handling and ticketing, and kosher food providers for in-flight meals. Charter airlines could even have single-sex flights, which aren’t permissible on scheduled airlines. Why hasn’t anyone done this?
It is a well known fact that in all smaller towns where Rabbonim don’t have the strength to ban anything and everything there are far fewer drop outs than in the big cities where the Rabbonim can flex their mucsles!
(I mean percentage wise!)
Yiddishkeit cannot be legislated or forced.
I fail to see the leverage of using other carriers. EL Al should just say, ‘good. let’s see how you fare because you chasidim have more chance with el al than with anyone else.’ puleease, get better negotiators and use better bargaining chips.
I see picture o all these rabbanim in the newspapers. If they were so religious, they would not take pictures!! Look at the first half of the aseres hadibros!!
These Rabbis are bitter people, always picking new fights.
Don’t they have something better to do with their time?!
I don’t fly El Al anyway, why should i fly with an official Israeli/Zionist airline, Continental and delta are better in all aspects.
El Al has a responsability to the Jewish community. They should be more sensative to the needs and requests. I for one would like to watch a movie, but not a movie of schmootz. There are many Christian pilgrams who travel on ELAL and also would like to watch a movie but also not schmootz. I see no reason why on a large plane 747 or 777 why a section should not be designated as Charedi with no movies. For the rest of the plane if you don’t want a movie turn of the screen. However ELAL is different from all other airlines and R rated or movies of a sexual nature SHOULD NOT BE VIEWED anywhere on the aircraft.
What’s the problem? The TV monitors are private for each seat. Just don’t turn it on. Bring a sefer. Why is evertything a problem?
If you don’t like what they offer, take your business else, why the fuss.
Doesn’t anybody remember, we are in golus and we do not own the world and
therefore do what is expected of us, to work on ourselves and know
wrong from right.
We can’t expect the world to adhere to all our chumras. We have to behave in
a way that is expected of us not through boycotts and thinking that we are
better then them.
EL AL has no responsibility towards the Jewish Community. Why should they. They are not believers themselves, and laugh as fools who believe is “the invisible man in the sky.”
We who do believe need to form our own methods of transportation, and not push those others around. Would you tell Delta, or the other goyishe airlines what to do? They are no different.
It is OUR responsibility to form a corporation, and fly 2x / week to Eretz Yisroel.
But, also, can’t we also fly into Beirut, or some other close by airport and take other transportation to Eretz Yisroel?
I bet the Jordainian airline, whatever its name would attempt to be accommodating.
Certainly more than ELAL.
Maybe they can simply have their own bus from their airport into Eretz Yisroel to some good transportation center.
They may even give us better service at better prices, and not laugh at our observance and belief in G-d.
Who tells them to watch movies. In all airports, shops sell “night shades” Let everyone who is disturbed by the real world put them on as soon as they board their flight and them off after they land and have arrived ta the terminal. Or better yet, let them stay at home.
I don’t understand what the problem is here. If you have a problem with the movie you can turn off your screen! This is disgusting that people are making such a big deal about it. Be grateful that we can travel and there are people who only wish they can go to Israel. You live in the real world and not everything around you, you are going to agree with. I only wish people did not make such a big deal of the little things and focused on larger issues at hand. Stop worrying about a freaking movie that you can turn off and start worrying about things that cant be solved by the touch of an off switch.
The biggest joke is that the threat these Taliban are using is that if you don’t give us flights with “kosher” movies, we’ll fly other airlines that DEFINITELY won’t give us kosher movies. Uh, well, ok, if that makes you happy, go right ahead. DUH!
Flying with movies playing on the main screen (forget about private screens) wasnt a problem for R’ Moshe Feinstein, R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky, R’ Kaduri, R’ Aharon Kotler, R’ Hutner and all the gedolim of the last generation. Now its a problem?
For hundreds of years our gedolim and rabonim bent over backwards and spent hours poring over seforim to find a way to be matir things, and to make life easier for klal yisroel. Today its all about making everything asur, asur, asur, why? When did things change.
Are we now on such a high level that situations which were ok for R’ Moshe Feinstein, R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky, R’ Kaduri, R’ Aharon Kotler, R’ Hutner and all the gedolim of the last generation, are not ok for us today?
Flying with movies playing on the main screen (forget about private screens) wasnt a problem for R’ Moshe Feinstein, R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky, R’ Kaduri, R’ Aharon Kotler, R’ Hutner and all the gedolim of the last generation. Now its a problem?
For hundreds of years our gedolim and rabonim bent over backwards and spent hours poring over seforim to find a way to be matir things, and to make life easier for klal yisroel. Today its all about making everything asur, asur, asur, why? When did things change.
Are we now on such a high level that situations which were ok for R’ Moshe Feinstein, R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky, R’ Kaduri, R’ Aharon Kotler, R’ Hutner and all the gedolim of the last generation, are not ok for us today?
The man asked the Tefillin merchant for cheap tefillin.
The merchant replied, “The very cheapest tefillin I sell today, in 2009, is $325.
I am sorry, but I can no longer find any tefillin for less that is even barely kosher.”
The man said to that, “I asked for cheap tefillin. I don’t care if it is kosher. I am not that machmir. Any tefillin will do. After all, tefillin and mezzuzas are only symbols. Why do they need to meet a bunch of silly rules and crazy technicalities. A mezzuzah is a mezzuzah, and tefillin is tefillin. In my father’s time it was good enough to go to a store and buy a mezzuza and a pair of tefillin. We did not need to know who wrote it, or any of that stuff. Too many chumras today.”
Folks, sure, gedolim of years ago had some lower expectations in some things. But things have changed:
The movies of 30 years ago, are not the movies of today. Back in the olden days they did not show movies on airlines which showed non-tznius dress, or a man and women in a “compromising” position.
Back 30 years ago, we were recovering from the Holocaust, and the rabbonim were thrilled that people were not driving on Shabbos or going to work.
After the Holocaust, a man came to the Satmar Rov, Z”L, and asked him for a bracha. The holy Satmar Rov replied, “You come to me? Any Jew who went through the Holocaust and still wears tefillin every day is a tzadik! His bracha is just as good as mine.”
The Gedolai Yisroel of 30+ years ago were like all the kings men and all the kings horses. They were trying to put the cracked egg of Yidishkeit back together again. That was their aim, and that is what occupied them. Thank G-d, they succeeded. We now have a thriving world of Yiddishkeit, alive and well on this planet.
Now it is up to US to raise the level of this wonderful Yiddishkeit that they preserved for us by trying our best to bring it up to the level of frumkeit it was before the Holocaust….
We now have the most wonderful and most charitable moisois every.
We now have the most wonderful Yeshivos, both in the Yeshivish world and the Chassidish world.
But, we all know we can use some chizuk in our daily lives, in keeping ourselves more pure, in thought and deed.
Can we not see room for improvement? Can we not tolerate those who want to TRY to keep their machshovos a little more pure?
Do we need to call them “Taliban” just because they are trying to be like our pure minded grandfathers and grandmothers?
Love them.
Respect them.
Be PROUD of them.
Don’t mock them. Please.
El Al or any airline likely can’t afford separate flights for the ultra-Orthodox. The ultra-Orthodox want to live separate from others. Then build your own airline, like you’ve built your own housing (with government money, mostly), own ambulance corps, bus companies, hospital visiting services, helath/medical centers, or fire departments. If non-religious people ever said they don’t want to sit with an ultra-Orthodox man or woman, or get on the same plane with anyone frum, there would be cries of bias and prejudice and, yes, the overused, anti-Semitism. The problem is the double standard and, for many, the arrogance.
Just to let you know I will happily be flying El Al and can’t wait to watch a movie on my flight. I will not boycott a flight that shows films. Go make your own airlines that no one will fly ya losers. You can ban women and everything else and just fly yourselves over the bermuda triangle for all I care.
Also,when C”V SH’ one must go to the hospital,make sure the TV is taken out and the one of the roommate also. Otherwise,there can be no healing.