Jerusalem – The evil winds of secular, anti-motherhood terror are blowing in our sector. “Taliban mom” and the “starving mother” are just twigs in a fire that has been burning for a while. During the recent Kolech conference, several sessions were dedicated to family planning. The unequivocal demand of the organization’s members is to spread the word of limiting birth. “It’s possible,” they say, “It falls in line with Halacha! Even male rabbis understand it now!”
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And they don’t only talk about numbers, bust also about the age factor. Why should young women give birth before they graduate from university? And before they integrate into the job market? And before they complete a second degree, without which they’re not worth much? And how can they expect a meaningful, fulfilling career in between pregnancies and births?
This goes against everything I believe on this issue. I’m not shamed to say that in my view, the greatest gift we can give ourselves and our children is a big family. Very big. Plenty of brothers and sisters who will grow up to be the anchor and home of each and every one of them. And us.
I believe it’s best to start having kids as young as possible, soon after the wedding, and before egotistical needs take precedence in our life. Yes, even before we grow a fake brain that tells us we should fulfill ourselves as well.
Because unlike the other things we might succeed in outside the house, there’s nothing like the complete fulfillment that stems from love and happiness at home.
I truly believe this, and strongly oppose the feminist secular terror that tries to influence us, with all the means at its disposal, to think that motherhood is the worst thing a woman can inflict on herself. Reading women’s journals and watching so-called reality shows, one can easily get the impression that these women’s one child (maximum two) is ruining their life, poses impossible demands, and that the “natural motherhood gland” was probably invented by women… like me.
And truthfully, as long as it stays there, in “their” magazines and “their” TV, and in their super-egocentric, spoiled, repulsively self-centered worldview, I couldn’t care less.
But when this penetrates my own sphere, our sphere, I recognize a threat to the number of my future grandchildren and great-great grandchildren. And for me this is an important warning sign.
I want to encourage the young women (and, of course, their spouses) who are deliberating this issue: You don’t have to obsessively deal with family planning. Don’t believe those who tell you you’ll miss out on something in life if you have many kids. You’ll miss out no matter what; the question is where you will lose more and where you will gain more, and how your family will look like in 20 or 30 years.
Don’t believe such expressions as, “Sure, religious kids raise one another.” They don’t. They learn to live together, in cooperation and mutuality. Don’t believe such words as, “The parents can’t give so many kids enough attention.” No child needs the amount of attention given by parents who raise only two kids (me, me, me). And don’t be tempted to believe the phrase, “I don’t have a moment to myself.” Sometimes you do and sometimes you don’t. But it’s better not to have a moment because you’re busy with your family, rather than not having a moment because you’re organizing a feminist conference on family planning…
Children bring joy. Trust me.
you dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that you only have as many children as you can support even an animal knows that instictively to have children on the account of someone else supporting him is uncontionable its a no brainer to argue otherwise is insane and evil
Personally I want a pretty large size family abt 6-7 kids but this author is totally not convinceable. Her arguments are ridiculous. A family with 2 kids will be recieving more attention than one with 10 (of course there are exceptions sometimes) Its undeniable. I grew up in a family of 12- was i happy? yes. did I receive tons of attention? no. And being a mother I know that I definitely had more time when my family was small and opposed to it being larger now.
I’m definitely happy with a larger family but come on, give me some convincing arguments.
Well said. Only woman rabbi’est can rejact children. They cost money and time but the reward is priceless b”h.
Amen! Great article!
Thank you for the encouragement….as a new mom expecting another soon, it seems overwhelming at first!
Who is going to pay for the tuition? health care? food? etc. of all of her children? G-d forbid a woman should be able to help support her family in a meaningful and fulfilling way.
The path to nothing
I’ve been there done that- I have a master in Economics- and was assistant economist at Goldman Sachs many many years ago- there were only a handful of of women on Wall Street then.I was smart enough to marry. NOTHING compares to having/raising children (and teaching Limudie Kodesh- to my great astonishment)
Know any women who never marreied? I do- BIG REGRETS!!
As others have said, this logic does not make sense. There are many more factors at play such as – who will pay for all these kids if there is no money? Who will feed all these kids if no one is working? On factor (and not the only factor) is that this is not a matter of needing to live our own lives as parents, it is a matter of not wanting our children to grow up neglected and hungry.
The torah sais hashem will provide for all your children we just have to have true bitachon
Although I would not advocate waiting for children to pursue an profession, there must be some realization out there that birth control is in fact NOT assur, especially when you have a boy and a girl already. Having 12 children (or more) was not the norm in the Torah or the gemara. Women are not baby making factories and never have been.
There needs to be a middle ground. I am finding that people these days are having more children than in my parents days and I wouldn’t worry that much about some fringe element’s desire for professionalism infringing on the normal frum population. Women want to have children, it is part of their makeup. And yes they need to be able to use birth control when necessary (with halachic sanction – which there always has been).
“fake brain telling us that we should fulfill ourselves as well”…um why exactly is that a fake brain? everyone needs and has a right to be fulfilled – the purpose of this world is to gain fulfillment. having children may be one of them, but remember, woman can fulfill themselves in a lot more ways than just having fifteen children. “But it’s better not to have a moment because you’re busy with your family, rather than not having a moment because you’re organizing a feminist conference on family planning…” yes, because those are the only two choices a woman has, a million kids or heading a feminist conference. enough said. ridiculous article.
Why would you post such an idiotic article?
Awesome article and even more so coming from YNet. Kol hakavod to Yael Mishaeli.
All i can tell you as a father is, that having 9 children is just love and joy and nothing more!!! its the real fulfillement in life – and don’t let the secular selfish views overtake the real “tachlis” of klall yisroel.
While the underlying ideas in this article are spot-on, the arguments are downright silly. For one thing, the 2 women in the news lately have nothing to do with large families- they are ill, and many people think that maybe they specifically should not have had so many kids, but not necessarily that no one should have a lot of kids.
Also, while indeed it is wrong to postpone children just because of finances (unless you are really in dire poverty, and another child will mean the whole family starves on the street), and certainly wrong for career advancement, there are other legitimate reasons to do so. My wife and I had serious shalom bayis issues in our first year of marriage, and our Rav categorically forbade us from having children until we worked things out, and built a solid foundation for our marriage. BARUCH HASHEM for that advice, without it would have for sure gotten divorced; today we are happily married with a growing family, and our kids are being raised in a happy, peaceful home. We do want a large family, and are working our way towards that goal, but we also want to do right by our kids; what good is quantity when they end up lacking in quality? Many other couples sometimes need to delay the first child or space between children because of shalom bayis (although one must always ask their LOR). Better that than kids who are messed up and off the derech because of terrible tensions at home or an ugly divorce!
The writer is 100% accurate. Despite my many achievements, the greatest satisfaction I have are my children and the greatest gift I have ever given my kids are their siblings.
My only regret is that I did not have more. I wish I had the writer’s wisdom when I was younger.
you have your bitchon welfare checks
There are positions between the extremes.
It is a real partnership in Israel the chreidem keep the jewish majority by raising large famlies and the secular work and indulge in Olem Hazeh (movies TV traveling).
I see nothing wrong that some tax money goes to support the chreidem without whom the arabs would be in the majority in 20 years.
I think it is in israel national intrest to support the large famlies just as much as buying tanks!
Next time i receive a letter in the mail begging me to donate money to a family with 12 kids that can’t make ends meet, I’lll be sure to send it straight to you.
You can pay their grocery bill with your “bitachon”.
To all the big “maminim” who advocate huge mishpuchos-
(1) What about “ain somchin al hanes”-the cost of raising 5 kids today is prohibitive-let alone 10 kids-it takes an open miracle to earn enough money to support 10 kids (as evidenced by all of the shnorrers “in a shevreh matzav” who come collecting in my neighborhood -we are not allowed to rely on such a miracle;
(2) What about the kids??? The author os focused on her joy and fulfilment-did it ever occur to her that children in families on 10-12 kids experience difficulties??? As one of a huge family, I can tell you it was not that pleasant
(3) Why not focus on each child as a precious individual neshama instead of trying to produce as many as possible prior to menopause??
I say, let each person decide what is good for them and what they are capable of handeling…
Our purpose in this world is to do the ratzon HaShem and fullfill his commandments. HaShem commands us to procreate. This mitzva is fullfilled by having one boy child and one girl child, and kol a marbeh, harei at meshubach. Not everyone is physically or emotionally capable of handling a large family. Let them be happy with what they can handle. To belittle those who chose to have fewer than twelve kids is wrong.
Right on !! The main reason why there is so much money scandals with frum men today is because of the pressure of supporting their large families.. Oh, and that’s the MAIN reason, no matter how much you want to cut and dice it.
A woman who was on the verge of a nervous breakdown from 6 children and no money because her husband was in kollel, begged him to ask a shayla for birth control. After much beseeching he went to Reb Shlomo Zalman Aeurbach, Z’TL. Embarrassed because he thought he was asking for such a terrible heter, he explained the situation.
Reb SZ responded angrily: “Now you are coming to ME for a heter after your poor wife has suffered so much! Why don’t you go back to the Rov that gave you a heter to have 6 children to begin with!”
Told to me by a close Talmid Rabbi Dr. Avraham Seinberg, MD
Raboysay, we need to be balanced. We need to live and let live. We cannot point fingers to the “spoiled, self centered repulsive world view” out there, when we have the same middos in our community. When a rabbi is allowed to molest children because the Moysdos that know about it cover it up, because they are self centered, and they claim that they are allowing this horrible form of child abuse “lsheym shamayim” (its mesira, and lashon harah to expose the molester, its agaist daas torah, etc.) as was exposed just yesterday in a yeshivah in Lakewood, it is equally as repulsive a world view.
We MUST start taking Chazal’s words seriously. “Kshoyt Atzmecha V’achar Kach Kshoyt Acherim”. Blaming the outside world “seeping in” for all of our ills has been tried for years and years by the leaders of our community. It is not working.
I am not saying that the outside world is wonderful. Far from it. But consistently blaming all the evil in the world on the outside, prevents us from examning what Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz on his website (www.rabbihorowitz.com) has called “The monster within”.
Having more then 3-4 kids in a family is not a mishpucha. It’s a moisad !!!
My friends who have large families are not worried if they die due to the tremendous backbreaking pressure that they are going through to suppport their families.
First, they prepaid the chevar kadisha (that includes Tachrichim, The Talis, Tahara etc.)
2nd, they have a large insuance policy. And third, Klal Yisroel are Rachmunim Bnai Rachmunim who will have rachmonis on an Almona and her Yesoimim. She’ll get Tomchei Shabbo, Major breaks on tuition, the oilam will raise funds for her and the children. All of this while her husband “likt in kever”.
Let’s have some rachmunus on the family while the husband is still alive and before his first heart attack. GO KOLECH !!!
Children are the biggest blessing. I come from a family of 12, we had all the love, did not rely on handouts and worked out well.
Having more kids might mean one less vacation, one less cruise, but ultimately its the only thing that lasts forever, real brochois.
Yes, some medicaly (physically or emotionally) cant, but for the rest, that can, should, finances come and go, we as yiddin have bitochoin, yes, I know it might sound new to you, but Jews have bitochoin, that is how we got here after 2000 years, not statistics.
While I am completely in favor of larger families, I don’t believe in a one size fits all mentality. I honestly do believe that there are many parents (mothers and fathers both) that simply can’t handle large families. It really does take a certain special individual to have the patience and koiech to raise large families. It’s NOT for everyone.
The reality is that, even for Chareidim, economics is factor. Since the child allowance was cut in Israel a few years ago the average number of children per Chareidi family has gone from 9 to 8. (The Arabs also decreased by 1.)
Just a thought, I do not think we are in a hunger year at the moment, however we see that it is forbidden to procreate when there is a hunger, so perhaps there is some connection between what you can afford and how many children one should have, unless you say that this is not the underlying reason ? I am a father of 8 children, and I come from a family of 9 I think it is beautiful to come from a large family and to have a large family health permitting. I have never taken money from anyone else nor did my parents, and have managed financially money is only a means
Back in the “good old days” half or more of a woman’s children died before the age of 2 (if not in childbirth r”l). No woman ever had this many children-this is new to the modern age. Chadash assur min haTorah!!!
The torah says:
“MAN D’YUHIV CHAYEH YUHIV MEZOINEH”
To avoid having kids for finicial reasons is wrong! We can see it with our own eyes how big familes support and marry off thier children even without being rich… somehow hashem helps everyone to push it thru!
But a woman who can not handle the pressure of having a big family should definitly consider BC after asking a ruv.
I can feel only sadness for this woman and her yinglach. It makes it easy to understand the pervasive levels of poverty, health issues and disenfranchisement within the chareidi community. The women have no self respect and view themselves as baby machines….the children have no hope of getting a decent education or a job and become easy targets for those who would manipulate them for demonstrations to promote a dark and insular view of yiddeshkeit.
#6 you say “having a lot of children was not the norm in gemmores times’ can you ferer to sources or you just pulled it out of you hat?
We do live in a different world,it used to be that a father’s horsepower meant his horse strenght Today, it’s the size of his minivan. in the past fathers could count on children to join the family business,Today, fathers pray their kids will soon come home from yeshiva to teach them how to work the computer and set the camera..
my father smoked a pipe,If I try that today, I get sent outside and a lecture on lip cancer. I use to learn with my father and have heart-to-heart conversations ,Today, as a father I have to pluck the headphones off my sons’ ears and shout, “WHEN YOU HAVE A MINUTE..”
the term “baby machine” within the frum world is repulsive and excuse me but i have plenty of self respect.of course we have some serious issues ,WE’RE IN GALUS!stop your ranting for one moment and take a serious look at the problems in the world at large;i’ll choose our own any day.
the term “baby machine” within the frum world is repulsive and excuse me but i have plenty of self respect.of course we have some serious issues ,WE’RE IN GALUS!stop your ranting for one moment and take a serious look at the problems in the world at large;i’ll choose our own any day.
I have one point, in the olden days women nursed clean that was there way of birth control, today a lot of women dont nurse clean so they take the pill for a year or two. it was very rare to find large families going back 75 years and beyond because all women nursed for 2 to 3 years.
One of my great-grandmothers gave birth to 10 children, 2 of whom died as babies. The others grew up and got married. They did not have much money and in those days welfare, food stamps etc., did not exist. While I know that there are those who will read this and say that the previous turn -of -the -century immigrant generation was ignorant about BC or that it didn’t exist over 100 yrs ago, that was not true. They worked hard and didn’t waste a penny but they also didn’t pay anything to give girls a Jewish education and their sons only went to Talmud Torah. Their children ended up not keeping yiddishkeit .
Today we have bent over backwards to give children a proper Jewish education at considerable cost and at the same time discouraged young Jews from going to work. We must separate the 2: having large families and living beyond our means and not working. Jewish men in the past prided themselves on their ability to make a living. Jewish wives prided themselves on making their husband’s salary stretch.
The premise of this article is wrong. Today’s feminists are not anti-family or anti-children. What they are anti is viewing a woman as just a womb with no other abilities, rights or interests.
having a large family is wonderful, a true bracha but i dont agree at all with what the writer said about university education.
though it is good to “start off young””, how young were you referring to do, becuase people cannot be married and have children when they are mentally children themselves.
universities may be look down on, but how abiut an all girls, or all boys course? completing this course will give confidence and independance, and the key to a salary if needed.
The best way to support and encourage large families is to encourage fathers to do their part. That includes getting trained and educated so they can support their families and helping in childcare and household tasks.
For all those people judging and criticizing people who have smaller families or no children at all or are bragging about how many children you have and how fulfilled you are, remember you have no idea which of those people wanted children desperately but it never happened or whose choices were constrained by other life situations (i.e. supporting and caring for disabled parents or relatives, dealing with illness, etc.). You just might be sticking a knife in the heart of a good person.
It seems that lately there are more and more frumme women desparately trying to rationalize their own desparate situations by writing these articles telling everyone else that hashem wants them to be as miserable as they are with no life, no career, more children than they can afford and nothing to look forward to other than the end of their next pregancy. There is a middle ground but they seem oblivious to the notion that 3-4 children is enough and they can also have a career and make some contribution to society and yiddeshkeit by being a doctor, lawyer or indian chief.
I am a mother of 5 ka”h myself and the oldest of 14 b”h.
It boils down to thanking Hashem for your brochos. If a woman does not take BC, doesnt mean she will have 12 + children. Hashem gives the children to some, and not to others. I know plenty of women who do not take BC who really, really want more children, and it doesnt happen.
My great, great grandparents had 10 children ka”h that they raised to torah, chupah and maasiv tovim. apparently some ppl did have lrg families in those days.
On the other hand, there are some women who need to space their children or not have any more children for a variety of reasons, and ppl need to know when to go speak to a Rov for advice. Rabonim are generally very understanding. The Torah says “Vechai bohem!”.
My parents always said and still say, that they are so thankful for their children, and still wish they would be given more. We always hear from my father that Hashem gave him 14 diamonds. The attitude at home always is that the children are the riches.
My parents work to provide for the family and do not take handouts.
My mother manages to stretch the salary and doesn’t spend much on herself. Does she feel like she has no life or she is a baby machine? NOt at all. My mother is a very busy woman who teaches 1/2 day and gives countless more hours to the community.
My mother always says though, that it’s worth it for a woman to work at least 1/2 a day, so she can air out, come back with more strenght and patience for her children and family and MOST IMPORTANT so she can have cleaning help full time, and be able to be a mother and feel like a mentch herself.
Obviously once there are children, a husband SHOULD be bringing home a salary. THe gemara mentions many Tanaim and Amoraim, that did menial labour to provide an honest living for their families.
Only Yechidei segula, can actually handle a life of only learning, and the wife needs to be a tzadeikes who has no concept of gashmiyus/ earthly needs to go along with it.
Good Luck to all Jewish mothers everywhere taking care of the special gift/s the Aibershter has given them!!!!!
Sorry to tell you but they it looks this picture on top of the article don’t look to me to be all from one family
Scenario: Asifa for prepubescent girls
Date:2030
Place: Ateres Chaya Hall- Brooklyn,NY
Main Speaker: Rabbi Avrohom Vasartreiger – Head of the Moetzes Gedolei Torah of Agudath Israel of America, Israel,Outer Mongolia and the planet of Saturn.
Sponsered by Frumka (frum burka) International
The speech:
Yiddishe Tochtors – For 60 years we have been improving LADIES yiddishkeit. For example, your great grandmothers “only” had 2-4 children. The next generation of LADIES had larger families and started wearing Bullet-proof stockings and tights.
The next generation of LADIES -your mothers took upon themselves not to wear any colorful clothes on shabbos -ONLY WEARING BLACK – JUST LIKE THEIR CHASUVA HUSBANDS AND SONS !!
However, the soton doesn’t stop working and never gives up. We have today 2 new issues. Myself and the other gedoilim have instituted that every bas yisroel over the age of 12 must wear a FRUMKA- THE FRUM BURKA !! It was designed in Tehran specifically for the frum LADIES in brooklyn.
There is another issue- Our Askanim have informed the Moetzet that there are girls in sub-sahara africa that are giving birth as young as 15.
Do you have any idea what this means ???? There could very well be a kitrug (decree)in shomayim against our people !!! Why is an african girl giving birth at 15 and a yiddishe LADY has to wait until 19 or 20 years old to give birth ??
WE decree that FRUM girls should get married and thereby become LADIES as early as 12 years old !! Imagine the joy of having 5-7 children before you are 20 years old !!!
We understand that you will still have to go to seminary in eretz yisroel. The chaverim of the moetzet with our askonim will be convening long and hard in the months ahead to find a solution to this problem.
Program over !!
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I am sorry to say that I know too many cases of mothers who did the family planning just to be more comfortable. Somehow I saw them suffering from some of their children more than the norm, or they got sick physically , or the mother got sick, or “off the derech” kids or they had a hard time getting pregnant when they were ready for the next one. Of course when there are serious issues you can receive a heter. Otherwise, you better be careful. It is almost like playing G-d. I really don’t like to point a finger at anyone because perhaps they had serious issues. On the surface this is what I seem to realize. We mustn’t family plan because of Parnosso. You can’t push of having children bec. the husband wants to learn in Kolel. then he shouldn’t get married, no?The Parnosso is Hashem’s job and the husband has to do the best he can in bringing in parnosso.
But now is a new generation. We can’t expect the young ladies to want to give their young life for their family. The world is much more career minded and the expenses are high so mothers have to work outside. It is a challenge to remain steadfast against birth control.
I have B”h a large family, with not a big income at all but Hashem really really helped. I don’t even know how !! We did not collect welfare B”h. We can’t afford luxuries but definitely more than the basics. B”H B”H
it helps if the husband has a job!!!
Every child is a diamond. If this would be the view of all, would we here them yelling STOP! No More Diamonds!????
While not everyone can or should handle a large family, everyone who says that we should limit family size forgets that we lost so many Yidden to both the physical Shoah of the Nazis YMS and the spiritual Shoah of assimilation (including Zionist kekol haamim assimilation in EY). Anyone who feels it is their duty to replace these neshomos, and can do so properly, should be encouraged to do so indeed.