Jerusalem – Rav Kanievsky to Bochur Who Drove Without a License: You’re a Murderer

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    fileJerusalem – Three weeks ago a bochur yeshiva without a drivers’ license caused a dreadful car accident on the Ramot Road. Now another bochur was caught with the same irresponsible behavior. In preparation for his trial and out of fear that he might be sentenced to prison, the bochur decided to seek a blessing from Rav Chaim Kanievsky.

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    After VIN News verified that accuracy of the exchange, we are bringing the recording of the conversation between them as a service for the public:

    Bochur: I have a trial in another week. They want to put me in prison. Would the rav please bless me so I’ll be saved from it.

    Rav Chaim: What is the trial about?

    Bochur: They caught me driving without a license, after I crashed into a wall.

    Rav Chaim: So you’re mamash a murderer! Adaraba, let them put you in prison. Very good.

    Bochur (shouts) What? Chalila, I didn’t kill anyone. I didn’t wound anyone either. I just had a small accident with a wall involving only myself.

    Rav Chaim: But you drove without a license, right?

    Bochur: Yes.

    Rav Chaim: Nu, so you’re considered a real murderer. You could have caused an accident with people too.

    Bochur: But I know how to drive well. Besides that, [being in prison] might ruin things for me with shidduchim and yeshiva.

    Rav Chaim: There’s no such things as “I know”. Without a license, one doesn’t know how to drive. Concerning shidduchim, whoever doesn’t want you is right. It’s dangerous.

    Bochur: I’m mamash sorry. Just let the rav bless me that I be saved in the trial.

    Rav Chaim: What do you mean, you’re sorry? If you’re given a car tomorrow you won’t travel? For sure you’ll travel. So the best thing is for you to sit in prison and learn not to be a murderer.

    Bochur: Please, will the rav promise that I’ll be saved if I’ll be careful from now on?

    Rav Chaim: I can’t give a blessing. May Hashem help that they sentence you to what will really be good for you.

    Rav Chaim’s family says that it’s rare that Rav Chaim speaks in such extreme language, but this is how he views a person who is caught breaking traffic rules or who drives without a license. Rav Chaim will refuse to bless him and doesn’t hesitate to say that it involves no less than “murder.”


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    110 Comments
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    Charlie Hall
    Charlie Hall
    14 years ago

    More Israeli Jews die from automobile crashes than from terrorism. Perhaps this will finally get people to do something about the problem.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    he’s also a thief for causing damage to the wall and was it his car or his parents’?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Poor guy he’s gonna sit it is known that what R’Chaim hints at always happens

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    wow very well said . let all these buchirem know that its not a joke

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There’s got to be a connection here to between Rav Chaim SHLITA’s words and all of the accidents that happen in the mountains. Rav Chaim is clearly saying that people need to take the blame for their own actions.
    Furthermore, I wonder what the ramifications are regarding pidyon shvuyim. The tape (assuming it’s accurate) shows that a Gadol feels that prison is appropriate, at least in this case.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Its not the Rav’s Job to punish. Its Hashems Job, this story is between the Buchor and Hashem. We just have to make sure that he is Safe, and be makaim the mitvah of Pidyen Shviem, Anyway, He’ll get around without a blessing from him I’m Sure.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    WOW! He is not afraid to say what’s right.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    wow – i wonder how he would feel about a child molester?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    all i say, wow thats some harsh word from a rabbi. the thought the rabbi would give him a blessing that he is in the clear, instead the rabbi is calling him a murderer dont think he was expecting that.

    AuthenticSatmar
    AuthenticSatmar
    14 years ago

    So where are all those that criticzed the Rabbonim?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    He should go to jail and all the others should take a lesson from this one

    Shimshi brodt
    Shimshi brodt
    14 years ago

    The rav is one million percent right bocherim should be sitting in Yeshivah and not driving cars. And of course not without a license that kid doesnt deserve a blessing

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    That’s right! All those young teenagers out there, YOU’RE PUTTING US ALL IN DANGER, get off the road right now

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I can assure you that if this came from a judge you would call him all sorts of names including but not limited to being an anti semite. About time on e of our manhigim are speaking up . Still wating for someone to publicly address the molestation issues , especially after whaty just happened in lakewood the other day

    Joseph
    Joseph
    14 years ago

    Reb Chaim is such an ish emes, even if this bochur had money it wouldn’t have made a difference in his decision.

    All this kid is worried about is shidduchim as usual, not killing people.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Ah Emeseh Godol. (does NOT need my haskomah, of course)

    Steven
    Steven
    14 years ago

    FINALLY a rav that teaches responsibility to follow society’s rules. Unfortunately, such behavior is not limited to Eretz Yisrael. Far too many drive here in NY without a license or insurance. Unfortunately, this story won’t get the wide spread attention it not only deserves, but that the frum community in general needs to hear.

    People, rules are made to protect us. When I see a Yid taking on their cell phone, even when it’s on speaker it’s not following the law of “hands free” operation. It’s a chillul hashem when a frum yid is seeng blatantly breaking the law.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    wow- I wonder what he would say about a mother who starves her child?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Same like the Bochur in Lakewood yesterday. The law is the law is the law.

    Kol Hakovod to the bochur
    Kol Hakovod to the bochur
    14 years ago

    How did this story leak out if the bochur himself did not relate it? Was someone else in the room? If not, the it is VERY COURAGEOUS of this bochur to humble himself and relate his conversation. I am sure he learnt his lesson and hope he gets an easy sentence and a great shidduch!

    davetherave
    davetherave
    14 years ago

    wow. Rav K. is 100% right. People have to take responsibility for their actions, no ifs ands or buts. Now, if only all the other rabbonim would come out and say these like this maybe we will get somewhere. not just on driving, but on all topics.

    Skeptical
    Skeptical
    14 years ago

    Forgive me for being extremely skeptical that this happened as reported here.

    It should be pointed out that in the USA, certain offenses while driving, such as driving with an expired registration or no plates will get you is major trouble too. These are viewed as if you are using a lethal weapon.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    may Rav Chaim also be that strict with smoking too,,,kills the smoker and/or the second hand inhalers, and sometimes its his own family, ch’v

    ...different rule
    ...different rule
    14 years ago

    the kid is not a murderer…not even an attempted one…
    he is, however, irresponsible and may deserve time cause he did the crime…
    why is this imam telling the kid now..why dont they teach them in class…where are the parents…this system is rong.

    ben torah
    ben torah
    14 years ago

    The ruv probarly wanted to give him the punishments with his mussar n strict words so he should do tshuva and not seat iy”h in prison. This is how a gudel thinks.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    As one of those frequently frustrated with jewish leaders who fail to show any backbone and speak out against irresponsible behavior, Rabbi Kanievsky, seems to be an exception. Since he is apparently held in high esteem among some orthodox groups, hopefully this precedent will have more widespread ramifications.

    moshe g say
    moshe g say
    14 years ago

    at the end he did have racmanus on the bocuhur by saying
    “Rav Chaim: I can’t give a blessing. May Hashem help that they sentence you to what will really be good for you.”

    at least he blessed him with with “what will really be good for you”

    at the end it will be a lesson they should post this in all the yeshivas and this applies to speeding,talking in cellphone, drinking, not sleeping and then driving, and all the other crazy things we all do when driving
    may hashem watch us during these 9 days

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    but then we can go for pidyun shvuim ? or since its in israel there he is not byad nuchri and we dont have the mitzvah of pidyun shvuim ?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Could Kupat Ha’ir help this case too?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Since when does Maran Raban Shal Kol Yisroel, the Gadol Hador need everybody’s Haskomah

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Dont think its only if you drive with out a license your a murderer it applies anytime you break a driving law. Even if you dont get cought you will have to give din vicheshbin one day!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    a while ago, I got knocked down with a baby stroller by a bochur with a suspended license. B”h I was alright, but these ppl need to learn a lesson.

    We all make mistakes!
    We all make mistakes!
    14 years ago

    It is very dangerous to drive without a license but I don’t think he should serve time in prison for this one time and first offense (I assume its his first), we all make mistakes, give me a break.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The Satmerer Rebbe, Reb Yoel explictly said, after inquiring about all the different warning signs posted on the highways including speed limits; that all the signs were put there for a reason to save lives AND MUST BE OBEYED without cochmes al pi daireysa.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    It is very dificult for anyone to believe molestation as it is only between accused molester and child. When someone crashes into a wall everyone knows what occurred and there is no denial.
    How can you beleive that someone did something when there are no witnesses?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Point is misrepresented. and misunderstood.
    Rav Chaim shlita is being understood by posters in glowing terms being described as “wow” “not afraid” “finaly a manhig”.
    the bochur was asking for a bracha that his future not be ruined period.
    reb chaim refused to make light of the situation just because minimal dmage was done.

    his point was that actions such as these lead at times to results that are inexcusable…. doesnt mean licensed drivers who kill arent guilty for their actions.

    and of course again try not distorting the story and applying loosely like your favorite spread.
    it was said in a specific case to a specific person for a specific reason with a specific lesson.

    if you can gain and learn from it , wonderful by all means do so.

    if reb chaim feels he needs you to teach this to others on his behalf, he might higher you.

    remember to apply for the job, volunteers are not needed at this time.

    clever
    clever
    14 years ago

    I’d this wld b with r’aron or r’ zalmen teitelbaum then I cld hear us debating & raisinf opinions if he said correct .. but w/harav kanievsky well he’s just our true gudel & knows wjat he’s doing!
    besides its abt time these teens stop “knowing how 2 do everything” & stop endangering their & other ppls life…

    Jacob
    Jacob
    14 years ago

    I think this article should go in to evrey yiddishe news paper (printed)
    And sent out to yeshivos in the whole world maybe it will help

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    If vosisneias didn’t post what Rav Chaim said, a lot of you would be saying that this bochur didn’t do anything wrong, and the seculars are out to get him, it’s the greatest mitzvah to be podeh shvuyim, and bashing anyone who says otherwise.

    Lesson for you: Use your common sense and be normal, just as Rav Chaim demonstrates here. With the exception of some chukim, don’t go against reason.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There are three things here that are amazing (not necessarily in this order):
    1) People actually expecting the Rav to give a blessing in this case
    2) The bochur’s unmitigated chutzpa of not accepting the Rav’s words the 1st time but continuing to argue and not showing any remorse for his misdeed
    3) The profound difference between the Rav and his followers – apparently his views are not being taught or are being distorted by the teachers and the parents

    cool masmid
    cool masmid
    14 years ago

    I have a hard time believing that this was really the conversation between Reb Chaim SHLIT”A and the bochur…. Remember it way just hearsay and so I for one don’t buy into this story as far as the conversation went.

    thats it
    thats it
    14 years ago

    what about teshuvah?

    Zevsky Rebbe
    Zevsky Rebbe
    14 years ago

    Bochur: “Please, will the rav promise that I’ll be saved if I’ll be careful from now on?”
    Notice the bochur didn’t say that “I wont drive till I get my license” …only “I’ll be careful”

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    i think the rav is very much right for telling this bochur that he`s a murderer. i also think that anyone who gives his car willingly to someone who doesn`t have license is considered a partner in his crime.

    How True
    How True
    14 years ago

    Driving without a license is not the only “murderer”. Even one driving with a license can be a murderer – like when driving while on the cell phone, texting, driving too fast, or c”v intoxicated. ALL these people are irresponsible, and have a din of a “rodefh”.
    Should c”v something bad happen – they too would be considered murderers.
    Please pay full attention while driving – it’s a dangerous machine and has to be controlled by the driver. The life you save may be from your family (and maybe your own)

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Actually, there is a fairly well-known and similar story with the Steipler Zatzal in which he was asked by someone facing a trial on speeding charges for a bracha, and he was visibly angry, getting up and loudly telling the person “rotzeiach arois fun mein shtub!” (murderer, get out of my house)

    moish
    moish
    14 years ago

    And I thought the Rav only says “Mazel U’Bracha”

    Long Beach Talmid
    Long Beach Talmid
    14 years ago

    My Rosh Yeshiva, Rav Yitzchok Feigelstock, said over a story about a man that came to the Steipler zt’l for a brocho because he was facing charges for running a red light. The words of the Steipler were, “Rotzeach – arois from mine shtub”.

    Mordy Neuman
    Mordy Neuman
    14 years ago

    i told this story to two friends….. one replied that the boy should have gone to a chasidishe rebbe….. and the other one replied that……….the boy should have gone to a chasidishe rebbe…..lord have mercy…….

    Rabbi B.
    Rabbi B.
    14 years ago

    “If” the story is true, the “Rav” is dead wrong! Believe you me, I have theoutmost respect to Rav Chaim, I don’t think that anyone on todays age comes close to him. However, he is dead wrong, nobody deserves to be in prison, period. If he wanted to scare him to death or tell him mussar, he should recomend community service , perhaps educating bocharim not to drive without a lisence!