Beit Shemesh – Charedi Man Arrested for Attacking Immodestly Dressed Women

    83

    Beit Shemesh, Israel – Police in Beit Shemesh have arrested a haredi man in connection with an attack on two women early this morning.

    The man, whom police said was upset by the “immodest dress” of the women, also damaged their vehicle during the incident.

    After being detained for questioning by police, the man was later positively identified by the women and arrested.

    A remand hearing was scheduled for later today in Beit Shemesh.

    Follow VosIzNeias For Breaking News Updates





    83 COMMENTS

    1. This kind of behavior is a disgrace. Was it they were not covered from head to toe, Taliban style? That is not a derech to show the beauty of the Torah and gadlus ho’odom. Perhaps he should get a few real ‘petsch’ and know how it feels.
      One should do a full examination of this man’s actions, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find some perversions lurking in the background. Most probably a brute at home, too

    2. I am actually saddened that they are called Charedim. In other words, put into the same category like us, the regular Charedim.
      Charedim like us who behave in what is expected of a frum Torah loving Jew.

    3. I thing the neigbors are alloud to say how to go dress, why are women coming in a jewish neigberhood dressed against the thora law’s & against our feelings?

      • I’m sorry, but it’s a public street. How would you like it if Haredis were told they could not wear black or shtremels or beards or long sleeves on some streets because the people who lived or worked there found those things to be offensive. The nature of a civilized society is learning to get along with others.

        • Anony, you’ve got it all wrong. The haredim are being hated because of their dress.
          Yes the chilonim are trying to have the charedim change their way of dressing.
          Because of their way and style of being dressed they are hated by the chilonim and by guys like you.

          • I disagree. Haredim are not hated because of their dress. Its their actions. They are disliked because they are perceived to (i) want to force other people to comply with their beliefs instead of live and let live and sometimes resort to violence or fail to condemn those who do resort to violence; (ii) hate the state that provides for their security; (iii) not contribute their share in terms of military service/national service and work.

      • ok

        then are many people who feel wearing fur is wrong are you willing to not wear you stremeil when you go down a block of people who think fur is wrong

        remember neighbors are aloud to say how to go dress

        • You fools!!… What he did was wrong that’s not up for debate!!.. But that place is one of the last holy places in this god forsaken world… These woman couldn’t respect that!! They r the real pigs!.. Again the way he responded was wrong! But that was NOT the real crime… Come on guys!!

      • “Against your feelings? If a person “feels” differently then you, then they are wrong? Everyone interprets Halacha differently. People follow different poskim. It does not mean it is wrong or against the torah when people follow another person. Being respectful even when you disagree is “Loving your neighbor” and following the Torah.
        A person should first work on themselves and what they have to correct and perfect before they try to change the “world” or neighbors or friends etc. Don’t judge your neighbor until you are in their shoes.

      • Actually, by the standards of these young goons who have swooped down from Yerusholayim, most fine chareidische and chassiedische women are considered lacking in tznius. From far we don’t realize it, but the so called non tzniusdike women of Ramat Beit Shemesh are frum women, and many of them American chareidim.

      • Attacking people going about their legal business is a crime. If I don’t like the way you dress I don’t have any right to beat you up. If you don’t like the way I dress you don’t have the right to beat me up.

        Is that really so difficult to understand?

    4. they can ask people should dress modestly however it is a public street so ultimately they have no say.

      This could backfire people might decide to dress not modestly as an act of deviance.

      They cannot tell people how to dress, just like people cannot tell them how to dress. How would they like it if people told them they cannot wear a stremeil or black

    5. amazing how the chareidy people behave! what would happen if it would be the other way around ! how about id the start beating up every man who does wear deotrent? there are not enough hospital beds in israel for you! LIVE AND LET LIVE

    6. The good news is that this dreche yid was quickly capture and identified and is being held in jail without bail pending further hearings. He may be mentally disturbed in which case he needs help. If he is simply acting on his warped beliefs, he is even more dangerous to society and must be dealth with harshly, lest there be any further attacks of this sort.

    7. Hello, the article doesn’t say the plural, men or chareidim. it says ONE person was arrested. he obviously acted alone and doesn’t represent anyone.

    8. It is actually worse than that. We lived in Bet Shemesh for a year and a half. the area that this type of violence happens in (Ramat Bet shemesh Bet) lies along a main road whicch is very difficult to avoid. Trust me, nobody drives through there for a provocation.

      while we were there, there were a number of violent incidents against women. These were not women with exposed midriffs- it was usually middle aged religious women whose cars were attacked. while these women were not covered up wrist-to-ankle, they certainly had long skirts and reasonablae-length sleeves. I personally know a number of the women involved; one is a well-know doctor in the community. This was not an issue of modesty- scantily-clad teenagers were not involved.

      The police know who these people are, and political groups protect them. I would not name the Rabbis of the communities responsible, but they aare well known, as they do not hide their support of these activities.

      I find this truly amazing; the people that hold that it is forbidden to look at a woman or shake her hand have no problem at all striking a woman. until the Hareidi community polices its own, this chillul Hashem will only get worse.

      • you sound like an eye witness
        this is truly disgraceful
        the rabbinate need sto take firm action or otherwise many charedi men will be spending alot of time in jail

    9. This one mental deviant should not be assumed to represent all hareidim. Lets not generalize, which I admit, I do so myself all to often. While some hareidim share his concerns for tzinus, 99% will not act violently even if they are offended by someone they see.

    10. to me it looks like the islamization of beit shemesh dont theese hassidim learn from history dont they see whats going on in iran they think they will overpower others with their scare tactics like in iran they learn torah and they are brain washed by their elders and cant cope with the real world they think their world is more real then in what we all live in

    11. Why are most of the comments critical of the Chareidim? These posters that are placed at the entrances to the neighborhood request that female visitors to this neighbor adopt the community standards for modest dress – because it causes real spiritul harm to a Jewish man to see a woman dressed immodestly. This is an important issue and effects the kedusha of everyone in this neighborhood. For women to ignore it they show disrespect, ignorance (and contempt) of the halachic issues and at a minimum are being very rude.

      I do not condone any physical violence, but I do not know how to keep these women from violating the standards other than blocking their path if they refuse to comply.

      One thing for sure, the Jewish men should have the right to live in their own nieghborhood without this kind of intrusion. They moved here for this purpose, and I do not think it is too much to ask for these women, who do not live there, to dress in a manner that does not cause harm to the residents.

      • I will put up a sign on my block on Boro Park, that will state I am very offended by people who wear fur. It goes against everything I believe in and it is against the Torah sign it is tzar ball hachaim the way the animals are killed to make fur coats, and or stremils. Such open defiance of of simple Torah laws brings down the kedusha of everyone. It also teaches our children not to have respect for animal which the Torah commands. Just killing animals for a hat is not and never was a Yiddish thing. The Torah teaches respect for living things

        This sign will posted a few places

        For men and women to ignore tzar baal hachaim they show disrespect, ignorance (and contempt) of the halachic issues and at a minimum are being very rude,

        I am sure you and your friends will comply willingly and people who feel like me will not have to use violence.

      • “I do not condone any physical violence, but I do not know how to keep these women from violating the standards other than blocking their path if they refuse to comply.”

        There are no legal prohibitions on how women must dress on a public street and any woman in EY has the option to dress any way she wishes. You have the option of not to look at her if you find her dress immodest. You don’t have the right to “block her path” and if you try to do so you will be arrested and will share a jail cell with the drek who attacked this poor woman.

        Women should take the feelings of the locals into consideration but ultimately they can decide for themselves how to dress in public. This is EY and not Iran or Afghanistan.

        P.S. If seeing a woman with short sleeves threatens your neshama, I suggest you need serious help. Please see your rebbe or spiritual advisor and take a cold shower.

        • “There are no legal prohibitions on how women must dress on a public street and any woman in EY has the option to dress any way she wishes” they have no such option at all as the Torah doesn’t let. I fear your neshama has already been affected from the fact you hold secular law binding and not torah law c”v.

          • “”There are no legal prohibitions on how women must dress on a public street and any woman in EY has the option to dress any way she wishes” they have no such option at all as the Torah doesn’t let. I fear your neshama has already been affected from the fact you hold secular law binding and not torah law c”v.

            If you live in EY you are subject to secular law not torah law. If you don’t believe me, please take a walk over to your local jail and you will find many chaverim serving time for disobeying civil law even though what they did might have been in accordance with daas torah or halacha. I personally beleive that people should respect the preferences of hareidi communities not to have immodestly clad women (or men) walk throught their neighborhoods, but that is not my decisions.

            This woman is legally entitled under Israeli law to dress any way she wants, any where she wants and its
            just too bad if you don’t approve.

            • Yidden are subject to torah law wherever they live, and however many people are in jail does not change that fact; you can have as much legal entitlement to do aveiros as you wish that does not give you any right to do an aveiro; nazis in germany had a legal entitlement to kill jews, did that give them a right? And its not me who doesn’t approve it’s God.

      • “Jewish men should have the right to live in their own nieghborhood without this kind of intrusion. They moved here for this purpose, and I do not think it is too much to ask for these women, who do not live there, to dress in a manner that does not cause harm to the residents.”

        They have the right to “ask” women to dress modestly in their neighborhoods which are public streets. Women have the right to ignore their requests in a democratic country. I’m not suggesting they should go out of thier way to offend the locals but they are legally entitled to go wherever they want and dress however they want. If the hareidim want to totally cut themselves off from the city, and forego any city services including trash collection, utilities, etc. let them buy a few thousand KM in the Negev and build their own private city.

    12. He did the right think! If after asking nicely they still come in a chareidy place like that they deserve it, the gemura also has a story of a big tana that attacked a shiksa because she wear red clothing, pinchas got became a chohen because he attacked zimri ben suli even it was on public land

    13. Our daughters are afraid to walk on certain streets in Jerusalem when they are off from Seminary. They are dressed in accordance with Halacha, but not in accordance with “shtick”. Of course, the overwhelming majority of people, Charedi and everyone else, couldn’t care less about how someone else’s wife or daughter dresses, certainly not enough to spray bleach on skirts and the like. Nonetheless, it is incumbent upon the leadership to condemn acts of violence against anyone. If you don’t like my culture,don’t join it.

      Our kids aren’t encouraged to abuse someone with a shtreimel, quite the contrary, a kid who did so would be severely reprimanded.

      One is puzzled by the Gemara that refers to the Simchat Bet Ha’shoeva and Tu B’Av. Were the girls therein referred to wearing Burkas (borrowed ones)?

    14. Before anyone makes a smart comment, you should find out what the real story is. I have some relatives in Beit Shemesh so i gave them a call and asked if they heard of this story, so this is what they told me what happend: There are huge posters all around that area asking everyone who walks in the erea should please dress modestly, now early in the morning two fraye women (you can really call them goyim the way they dress, eat, speak, look, but what can we do they nabech have yiddisha nesumalach!) were about to walk through that erea wearing mamish nothing, just a bathing suit, they were told very nicley they should’nt walk through the erea they dont want the children to see this, but they did’nt care and they walked through anyway, so people started throwing garbage on them so they got upset and told the police that they were attcked. so please before anyone writes any comments find out THE TRUTH!

      • Their behavior does not make it right. The bottom line is now they are throwing garbage all around and harming people. Even with signs you can’t force people to dress the way you want or deem fit. The people who “attacked” the woman will probably not cause them them to dress more modestly, on the contrary , they may now decide to do it purposely.
        Saying you can call them goyim? If they are jewish, they are jewish no matter how they dress, act, talk etc. They are still children of Hashem.
        “Hochiach tochiach es amasecha” is only if the people who you are trying to give tochacha will listen. IF they won’t listen and will only cause them to continue to do what you are doing then you are NOT supposed to give tochacha.
        Again, when you criticize people for doing things wrong, most likely, you are also doing something wrong. First work and worry about yourself before you work on others.

      • What do you mean they weren’t attacked. Throwing garbage at someone is an attack. Your story is even worse since according to you, there were multiple people involved in the attack, not just one.

      • Is it possible, even remotely possible, that your cousin got the story wrong? I mean have you never experienced hearing a story about something or someone in your town and then hearing later that the story you heard lo haya velo nivra? Even if your cousin got the story right, seems to me you and your cousin live by the following rules: If a woman doesn’t dress to your liking or to the rules that you believe they have to live by, you have the right to harm her. Where in the Torah does it allow this kind of behavior? Unless you purchase the entire town you live in you don’t own the streets of the town you live in! I can’t believe I have to tell you this. Are you completely out of your mind?!

      • Your story doesn’t jive, how your version of the story could be true when you fail to tie-in the damage to the car which was reported and if part of your story fails then your version is suspect.

          • mr truth
            your first posting in #40 says and i quote your last line

            “so please before anyone writes any comments find out THE TRUTH!”

            lets face it neither you nor I really know the truth.. i at least admit that.
            read your posts again tommorrow and tell yourself if you really believe what you wrote or perhaps there needs to be some more spin..

            the torah says vdarashta vhakarta..
            if you really seek the truth you may find it.. but let me warn you my friend
            you may not be happy at what you see.

            a ktiva vchatima tova to you personally
            and to all the charedim and chilonim
            i hope and pray that the jewish nation rises above negativity and learn kavod habriot and vahavta lreyacha kamocha

            a gut yur.

      • lets assume that your version of the events are true in fact and in tone ( even though i do not necessarily beleive it personally)

        so 2 “fraye” women in mamish nothing were told”very nicely” (i am already laughing) not to walk through the area but they didnt care and they did anyway.

        now people started throwing garbage at them >> why didnt the people call the police and have them deal with this offence? ( garbage makes more sense?)

        then they told the police they were attacked ( so somebody called the police and wow they do come) .. well if someone threw garbage at you that is an attack?
        (or its only an attack when police officers are restraining charedim who are angelic and model citizens? throwing diapers and garbge).

        my dear friend
        your version of events makes no sense to me
        this has to stop on both sides
        both sides need to show respect and understanding.
        it is that simple
        treat your neighbor (religious or non) the way you want to be treated. period

        unfortunately the truth here will have many versions

        • What i meant by garbage was some plastic cups and some papers that where on the floor and i don’t think anything even came close to them, but why not lets make up some story on the charadim!

      • Every time there is a story on VIN about some chareidim acting abusively or engaging in violence (often based on reports from the media and eyewwitnesses) you or someone posting with a similiar name and style of writing immediately jumps in and says he just got off the phone with his cousin Moishe in Beit Shemsh, Bnai brak or wherever who says the story is not true and indeed the victims got what they deserved.
        If you really think anyone beleives your stories of the “whole truth” , perhaps you can start selling chometz for succos based on some new takanah from some Rav you created.

    15. Jews do not live and let live. However, there is a Torah way to go about encouraging your fellow Jew to do a Mitzvah or not do an Aveira. The majority of Shomer Shabbos Yidden would never attack another Yid physically or emotionally. Obviously, those that do are seriously deranged or got a horrible education at home.
      Observant Yidden are attacked way more times by non observant Jews who are not comfortable with the Torah lifestyle. These attackers are also seriously deranged.
      To smear all chareidim when one nut case acts out of line is wrong.
      Those who do should do some serious introspection (chodesh Elul is a great time)
      and see why they are so uncomfortable with Chareidim.

      • “Jews do not live and let live…”

        Well, if you are one of those Jews who beleives it is his/her obligation to force others to conform to your interpreation of daas torah and halacha, you should probably be prepared to do so in jail because that is wear you will hopefully perform your evangelical work. Further, it would be a big mitzvah for any Yid to report you or any other person to the police if you engage in any coercive activity against other yidden, even if they are mechallel shabbos or violating tzinius laws.

    16. Don’t blame all Chradim for this. I’m a Chriadi and I’m happy this guy is in jail and he should stay there for a while.

      And to does Charidim who complain about “hurting there feelings”. Let me ask you, what you would say if someone will beat you up because he is a devoted Christen or Muslim and he doesn’t like when you come to his community with a Yarlmuka etc.

      What goes around comes around

    17. Keep in mind: if you don’t respect others then others won’t respect you.

      Everyone one has different feelings, values, laws, religion, etc.

      If you don’t let others in to your neighborhood, then others won’t let you in your neighborhood.

      If you don’t condom something like this, then don’t cry anti-semitism when someone is not respecting you in there community.

    18. i have the perfect punishment they should lock him up with 3 immodstly dressed woman for 2 weeks i promise they, the woman will never dress immodestly again

      • Locked up with a slavering lecher who’s obsessed with their bodies?
        Four things might happen…
        1) They might become Catholic so they could join a convent
        2) They might give up men altogether and turn lesbian
        3) He might get so badly beaten down verbally and physically that he’d think twice next time
        4) He might learn to treat them as real people no matter what they wore and become more of a mensch

    19. Why can’t they just say insane psychotic bored unemployed Jewish man. This man is NOT a representative of Charedim in any way shape or form yet anyone reading the news will think that he is because of how the media portrays us!!!!

      • Unfortunately, if the comments on this forum are any indication, this is not an isolated meshugenner, there are plenty who share his views and condone his actions.

    20. What do you suppose would happen if anti-fur types, immodestly-dressed or otherwise, were to begin spray-painting shtreimlech in Beit Shemesh? It would actually be pretty funny.

    21. I thought that the anti tsioni chareidim don’t accept the medina as a legitimate jewish state ( as we are still in golus… only when moshiach comes.)so if this is not a jewish Torah run govt., why not respect it’s laws the same as they would if they lived in Williamsburgh, Boro Park , or if they were under pre 1948 British ruled jerusalem?(in other words as all other goyish ,run governments). They wouldn’t dare attack someone not dressed tzniusdick under goyish rule, Ela Mai, they are granting legitimacy to the zionist state as a jewish state… What schizophrenic hippocrits they all are !

    22. while we are all calling them “charaydim” we should just keep in mind that not all charydim = frum yidden act this way. These actions are a disgrace and these men are not representing the frum community

    23. I live in Ramat Bet Shemesh and I can tell you that this is far from an isolated event. There are dozens of men who have attacked women and girls that are dressed according to Dat-leumi standards of tzniyus instead of charedi standards. There are hundreds more who tacitly support these attacks. And there are hundreds more who would not ever object. Look, even in this comment thread you see some people expressing approval or understanding!

      • if this is more than an isolated event and the situation is as you describe, then it is time for the women to protect themselves.
        they need to legally arm themselves first with mace or pepper spray and any of their men accompanying them.
        they need to proactively alert and work with the police and the appropriate charedi leaders.
        if such attacks continue the women must protect themselves and the criminal attackers arrested and dealt with through the legal process.
        if an element of the chraedi community continues to tacitly approve or look the other way then maybe its time they for them to organize a bikur assurim brigade to visit the violent group locked up in jail..they too willlearn quickly
        when a few of these vigilantes are injured repelling their ludicrous attacks they will learn very quickly. the torah requires us to protect ourselves.. nebech even from misguided jews.

    24. WHH
      Obscenity in American law is defined as the violation of the Community standard vis a vis Lewdness and is left up to the community where the affront occurs to challenge the statute. In the States the do whatever you want rule has been used to open establishments of ill repute in residential areas where the neighbors have enforced the community standard rule. So all you good Americans out there have a source for community enforcement, and shouldn’t be pointing fingers and insulting those in E.Y. for their desire to maintain communities in taharah. This does not mean that I personally agree with what happened, I don’t, however, I believe in the community standard theory, and in enforcement of a non-violent nature by community va’ad Ha Tzniut. Public space is not a license to act in any way you want. The people who live there do.

    25. If one of these animals ever laid a finger on one of my children, he wouldn’t live long enough to apologize for it. He’d better be able to outrun a bullet… and I’m a damn good shot.

    26. Too bad , If only the non frum people would have respect for the frum neighborhood and would do the Right thing and follow the local dress code it would have never escalated to this level , .. Too bad… When in Rome do as the Romans do !
      Bais Shemesh is a branch Meah Shearim In Holy Yerushlaim , and is a segregated section of yershalmis’ , They were living there before the English! a little respect for the local customs is in order !

      • First of all, a numer of the women attacked in Ramat Bet Shemesh Bet are religious, and were dressed accordingly–just not to Hareidi standards. Second, a number of them were attacked while driving through the neighborhood in their cars–do you have a habit of peering through car windows to see how long the drivers’ skirts are? this is not a question of modesty.

        by the way, the Hareidim are latecomers to /Bet Shemesh–oters were there first. to say that they should accomodate themselves to the newcomers is ridiculous.

        Lastly–when in Rome…etc? Really? How wouldou like it if the chilonim mad youn dress in their manner every time you came to one of their neighborhoods–or institutions?

    27. i believe it says
      rasha, lamma takeh reyecha
      people on both sides need to be respectful an sensitive
      otherwise it will God forbid deteriorate into what number 79 says
      self protection is both God’s law and natural law
      i hope that people on both sides remember that

    28. I have never felt more empowered then I do right now reading all the comments. As an observant 60 year old woman who covers her hair, dresses modestly, covers arms, legs etc.; the knowledge that I could send a man’s testosterone level jumping so high that he would feel the need to attack me to preserve his religious integrity really makes my day.

    LEAVE A REPLY

    Please enter your comment!
    Please enter your name here