Jerusalem – Chabad activists were shocked over a new proposal by Knesset Chairman Yariv Levin (Likud) that would prohibit minors from drinking or even holding a bottle containing alcoholic beverages.
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Levin claims youth drinking is a factor in many serious road accidents, vandalism, acts of violence and sex crimes.
Yet Chabad argues that at underage drinking rarely leads to intoxication at its functions. In recent years Chabad educational institutions introduced a prohibition against young people drinking more than a revi’is (less than 3.5 ounces) at farbrengens.
Chabad Spokesman Mendi Brod said the proposed legislation should be changed. “I suggest an exception be made to permit drinking alcohol in limited quantities, in educational or religious frameworks and under the supervision of a responsible adult.”
He stressed that Chabad does not encourage teenage intoxication. “Making a lechayim is supposed to end well before there is a danger of inebriation,” he said.
In a recent World Health Organization study of alcoholic consumption among sixth-graders in 40 countries, Israel tied with Romania for second place, ahead of countries such as Bulgaria, Slovenia, Italy, Croatia, Russia and England.
To combat the growing problem, various government officials have called for educational campaigns, increased taxes on alcohol and tighter enforcement of laws prohibiting the sale of liquor to minors.
Yet according to Prof. Rabbi Eliyahu Zinni, excess drinking among youths points to a much deeper problem. “The youth’s escape to alcohol is an expression of the destruction of values in which we find ourselves,” Rabbi Zinni, who serves as rosh yeshiva at a hesder yeshiva in Haifa and rabbi of the Technion, told Arutz Sheva’s Hebrew newsmagazine. “The only thing that interests them today is how to make money.”
“We have to give our youths ideals to hold onto, and then they won’t want to try to escape reality through drugs and drinking. It’s true that through the back door we allowed into our country all sorts of people who brought in drugs and alcohol, but a strong value-based society should be able to deal with that.”
The law should be passed and rigidly enforced. If there is an explicit waiver for “educational/ religious” functions, there will be endless debates over what qualifies as such a function (e.g. will drinking beer after a high school soccer game qualify?). The status quo is fine. A child can be allowed to sip from the kiddush cup without the police bursting in to the house on shabbos during kiddush. We don’t need to give a license for drinking in a broader context. There is no reason kids cannot be mekayem the mitzvah of kiddush with grape juice as have yinglach going back to the days of moishe rabeineu.
LeChaim!
3.5 ounces of hard liquor (vodka, scotch, etc. ) is a lot of alcohol.
Chabad leadership is either lying outright or have their collective heads in the sand. It’s a well documented fact that drinking at any age has led to accidents. Underage drinkers are more likely because they are just plain rasher to do things like this. We aren’t talking about a sip of wine at kiddush or a sip of whiskey after the fish. This is outright drinking of alcoholic beverages. And Chabad is a well known community of over-drinkers.
The rabbonim have no expertise in this area. We should rely upon the guidance of behavioral psychologists and educators who understand how children will exploit even a small opening that suggests underage drinking is ok. Adults have a hard enough time with “moderation”; children don’t have the ability to excercise good judgement on these matters.
I’ve been at Chabad events and they distribute way too much alcohol to those who clearly can’t handle it. Why is it needed? Shouldn’t the fabrengen be enough by itself to cause simcha?
I am not aware of any valid educational reason for drinking alcohol by minors or adults, nor any religious reason for alcohol beyond a sip of wine. If you can’t figure out how to have a successful farbrengen without giving a minor 3 or 4 shots of booze, then perhaps there are some other issues that need to be addressed. The statistic of Israel being no. 2 for underage drinking is troubling.
This law should definitely pass. Children won’t distinguish between 3.5 oz and more.
Every year on Purim and Simchas Torah there are numerous kids under 21 who end up in the emergency room because they have had too much to drink. Probably the adults are too drunk to supervise them properly or they do “their own thing” without the supervision of sober adults. Log onto the yehudamondfoundation.org site and see what Dr Twerski says about teens who drink and their brain cells. While I don’t want to disagree with Rabbi Brod and do realize that it is impossible to totally prohibit bochrim from drinking, I was very relieved to find that my youngest son won’t touch the stuff.
It should be enforced, no one is going to knock on people doors if A child takes a sip of the kiddush cup.
“Yet according to Prof. Rabbi Eliyahu Zinni, excess drinking among youths points to a much deeper problem. “The youth’s escape to alcohol is an expression of the destruction of values in which we find ourselves”
he does need to point to a study to back up his claims.
PS Drugs and alcohol abuse was around way before whoever he claims came.
again people can never look within themselves for the problem just blame the others.
Alcohol amongst Chabad of course it has nothing to do that we encourage drinking at our gathering it the other parts of society that infects us
I dont know if i find it funny or just plain sad that there are rabbonim who are actually trying to prevent this law from being passed!
It is well documented that lack of drinking in children/teenagers increases alcoholism in adults.
I have no idea whether lubavitchers drink more than any other segment of the population, and I suspect they do not, but studies show that starting drinking at a young age increases the risks of alcoholism and other risky behaviors. Giving underage drinking a patina of respectability or holiness because it takes place at a “religious” function seems very risky. Teens need outlets. Give them some fun alternatives to drinking, like sports, athletics, music and hobbies.
The small drinks at farbrengens unfortunately lead many to eventually have a drinking problem. Unfortunately many in chabad do not see this & try to hide it under the carpet.
I have been at many weddings and I am very disrurbed by the amount of booze drunk by many bochurim.
What would the Rebbe have said?
The law in the US is that it permitted in many states for religious reasons (Only).
There has to be a law enacted and a big public campaign, but it has to be balanced.
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 17,941 people were killed and over 275,000 were injured in alcohol-related crashes in the US in 2006. This does begin to even take into account other alcohol-related deaths from domestic violence, alcoholic poisoning (they call it inTOXICation for a reason), liver disease etc..
Alcohol can be one of the most addictive and dangerous substances if not consumed in moderation. Minors should not be considered responsible enough to handle their liquor, nor should they be exposed and conditioned to consuming a poison that can kill them.
L’chaim!
3.5 ounces of liquor in an hour puts a 150 pound individual at the border of legal intoxication in most of the US. Over two hours, certainly impaired. It seems to me that there’s no religious or educational experience that would condone (let alone necessitate) that. Allowing that for children as education or religious experience? Bull-puckey! Any individual promoting that is advocating child abuse and should have no standing in arguing any law of this type.
“Yet according to Prof. Rabbi Eliyahu Zinni, excess drinking among youths points to a much deeper problem. “The youth’s escape to alcohol is an expression of the destruction of values in which we find ourselves,” Rabbi Zinni, who serves as rosh yeshiva at a hesder yeshiva in Haifa and rabbi of the Technion, told Arutz Sheva’s Hebrew newsmagazine. “The only thing that interests them today is how to make money.” “
That is what happens when they try to take Yiddishkeit out of Israel. It is not the chabadniks that are drinking too much, it is the chilonim. They have no morals and nothing to live for. no Higher Purpose. We need Mashiach now! Hashem Yishmireinu (and no I’m not a Chabadnik)
It was not “Chabad leadership” (whatever that means) who put limits on maske. It was the Rebbe.
It is called denial
I just looked at a couple alcohol equivalency charts. Three and a half ounce of liquor is enough to make a 150 pound adult legally impaired to the point where he can’t drive in most States. It’s enough to be physically dangerous to an 80 pound kid.
And Chabad thinks that’s a reasonable amount for children to drink? That says two things. First, the standard for acceptable alcohol consumption in Chabad is way too low and probably hides a dangerous level of alcoholism. Second, the Knesset really needs to pass that law. It’s obvious that the religious groups are not qualified to judge medical and public safety matters.
I am a Chabad Rabbi and hear the side of the Rabbi’s in Insrael – HOWEVER if even one life can be saved with this law ( which i think is by far the case ) then they should certainly support it and help enforce it
The first time some teenagers are killed in a drunken driving accident, will we be able to sue these rabbonim who oppose the legislation for contributing to the death of a child. What is it with them . They oppose punishing child molestors.. Now they want to promote alcoholism among teens. Is this what our gadolim have become??
The photograph in the article tells the whole story. We have a growing problem of substance abuse among the orthodox community and these rabbis seem to want to make it worse.
Why did the article only focus on Chabad? Aren’t there other minors in EY who may also be consuming alcohol? Hasn’t it been shown that many youths in EY (non-religious) have problems with alcohol and drugs? Why is the article only focusing on Chabad?
The guy in the middle of the picture looks like he has already had one too many vodka (which is what is being poured); The young man pouring the vodka looks barely old enough to legally drink. The kids in the background of the photo look too young to drink, period.
You can bring your children up properly, and without having them see alcohol in your house except for kiddush, they can unfortunately still become abusers of alcohol. Especially when they go to Eretz Yisrael to learn, at young ages, there is so much drinking among their peers.
Since no one takes the responsibility to make sure that underaged kids don’t drink too much, all their protest worthless. I remember many Simchat Torahs where I drank as much as I wanted to at Chabad.
Why not make the law even more simple. Allow children to have a bit of wine or liquor at a “religious or educational” event, but hold he ADULTS there (all of them) responsible if something goes wrong. Obviously a child who has been allowed to consume too much alcohol is not capable of controlling his actions. However, if the child is found wandering the streets causing damage or exhibiting violent behavior, the police should drive the kid home and arrest the parents. If the parents were not there when the kid got drunk, they can turn in whomever was there or face the consequences themselves.
I see no problem in creating laws that force parents to be responsible for their drunken children at events.
Why is everyone focusing on drunk driving? 3.5 ounces of alcohol in a child can KILL. Alcohol, believe it or not, is a toxin. Too much and you get alcohol poisoning.
NCSY has a zero tolerance policy for alcohol. They use grape juice only – that is chinuch
I have a drinking problem. When I drink I always over do it. I don’t drink every day but I drink often and too much.
I saw a Doctor who told me that if a person is exposed to alcohol at a young age (in my case 13-14 years old) then they are at a higher risk of developing an alcohol problem later in life. My drinking began at fabregens. The Rabbonim would try to control how much we drank but once they (Rabbonim) were drunk they lost control and we were at liberty to drink as much as we pleased. And we drank allot!!!!
To the Lubavitcher parents who’s children attend fabrengens you should know your children are exposed to exsseisve drinking, and if you as a parent are not careful you could end up with a child who has an alcohol problem!
By the way I am not targeting Lubavitchers I realize that all “frum” children are exposed some way or another, I am simply speaking of my personal expereince.
What Jewish ceremony involves alcohol other than wine?
Once you have a restriction it will only encourage teens to drink cause its cool.
Strong alcohol should, at best, be controlled and perhaps tolerated, not encouraged.
I am a big fan of Chabad for many years and I’ll tell you, pass the law asap, Chabad not withstanding.
I’m astonished that anyone would protest this. Underage means “not old enough to drink.” For Chabad to insist that giving 3.5 (oh, heck, make it 4) ounces of booze to a 14 year old is OK is just mind-boggling.
I’m a proud lubavitcher ben lubavitcher parent of 4 lubab teenagers and can state with authority that this law will accomplish nothing but make criminals out of teenagers. B”H none of my kids drink excessive alcohol even at farbrengens (which I’ve done numerous times in my teenage years). I’ve been to litvish weddings where bochurim come with paper bags and by the kabolas ponim are already high R”L. In our shul on simchas torah the NCSY kids come for booze because they have this stupid no-alcohol policy so they come to Chabad for drinking. We try to control it, but there is only some much we can do with other people’s kids. Instead of having a reasonable policy with their own kids where they can watch them, the kids come to us and we are supposed to control them.
As they say, a kop ken men nisht aruf shtellen.
The Chabad people are Russian origin and they knew how to drink w/o getting drunk. I saw kalta litvish people including a Rov, tossing his cookies on Simchas Torah cuz they don’t know how to drink.
>It’s true that through the back door we allowed into our country all sorts of people who brought in drugs and alcohol, but a strong value-based society should be able to deal with that.”< As if EY didn't have a severe underworld problem before the ruskies arrived...
I am Chabad and I fully support this law. And I don’t let my underage children drink alcohol (except for a sip of wine by kiddush). I see no reason to encourage children to drink. You can farbreng and be inspired without touching alcohol. Mashkeh is a davar maus!
My kids all got a shmeck of kiddush from the first Shabbos after they were born, and none of them has a drinking problem. They know not to drink too much. None of them ever got shikkur on Purim when under age and they don’t go crazy at a kiddush. I thought this was the norm, now I’m not so sure. Am I just lucky?
Even for adults, especially those who are genetically prone to be alcoholics, the rabbonim have repeatedly paskind that there is no chiyuv to drink wine and one can make kiddush on grape juice, schnaps, or grape soft-drinks.
There used to be a saying “abstemious in the Jewish fashion”. In my father’s and grandfathers’ generations (Dad is 82 and in good health, praise be the Name) Jews had a reputation for drinking very little if at all compared to many other ethnic groups. I’m not a medical historian or anything of the sort, but that was the common perception among Jews and Gentiles alike.
Now I find that my secular, Reform and Conservative friends drink less than my Gentile acquaintances. When I’m with Orthodox friends it’s more likely that people will drink. When they do they seem to drink more. And there’s more pressure on others to indulge.
Poster #53 , they aren’t drinking without getting drunk. They are drinking without APPEARING TO get drunk. That’s a learned skill often found in alcoholics. When it’s widespread in a community it’s a worrying sign.
What changed? Did Gentiles cut down on the booze? Did Jews start to drink more? Was there a switch to hard liquor from less potent sources? Did observant communities change the level of consumption which they tolerated?
Such drinking is degrading to bnai torah. You do not see the gedolim overindulging
Who’s “Mendi Brod” and who appointed him “Chabad spokesman”??
Anyone who thinks our youth should be drinking has views that are contrary to the Rebbe’s views about drinking. How can such a person be a “Chabad Spokesman”??
As a person who is Chabad – I still agree with the law….the bochurim should farbrang without the alchohol.
Please let parents deal with their own children. this is NOT a government issue. before you know it – parents will be hauled off to jail for giving their kids junk food. there are much bigger things at stake here. tell the government to mix out.
And for the record: the Lubavitch community has Russian origin and thus it is sociably more acceptable to have a drink in that culture. kind of like a cup of tea for the British.
Don’t impose your own cultural “values” on others. (and don’t complain when the Europeans try to outlaw Brissim and schitah either).
“we’re simply not on the same madraigah as the chasidim from 100 years ago”
Speak for yourself. I believe many in our circle from several different chassidus are tzadiikim and talmedei chachamim on a par with chassidim from 100 years ago. No disrepect to the alte chassidim but we often believe that prior generations of yiddin were automatically at a higher madrraigah.