Jerusalem – Rabbi Moshe Hirsch of Neturei Karta Passes Away


    FILE - Guard escort Rabbi Moshe Hirsch, center, before a meeting with Arafat in the West Bank town of Ramallah, Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2003.Jerusalem – The world is filled with people of different shades of gray.

    On LaG BaOmer today, Rabbi Moshe Hirsch, the leader of the Neturei Karta organization passed away at the age of 79 at his home in Meah Shearim after a long illness. This past week he was hospitalized in Shaarei Tzeddek Hospital in Jerusalem. His perspectives on Israel, Zionism, and the propriety of meeting with Palestinian leaders and terrorists were quite controversial. He was firm in his anti-Zionist beliefs but went beyond most others of his circle in embracing Palestinians. It is interesting to note that the government of Israel vilified R. Hirsch, but eventually, they too sat down with Arafat and other Palestinians who had blood on their hands.

    His views of Hareidi leaders who supported receiving money from the State of Israel was quite negative and as a consequence he himself was viewed negatively by many in the Hareidi world. A Tzaddik who knew him since his youth commented that his views were skewed because he did not learn Mussar on a daily basis.

    Nonetheless, there were many remarkable qualities that Rabbi Moshe Hirsch possessed, that we can all learn from. He was an extraordinary Talmid Chachom, and published articles in Torah journals. One such piece dealt with the notion of Shaim UMalchus in a bracha when the it was recited erroneously.
    Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal respected him highly when he was a single bochur learning in Lakewood, and came to be Menachem Avel him, when he sat Shiva for his father, Reb Yisroel Meir Hirsch. Rabbi Hirsch was the bochur entrusted with saying over Rav Aharon zatzal’s shiurim by the Rosh HaYeshiva.

    R’ Moshe had a remarkable amount of Ahavas Yisroel, as well. Once there was a young woman who the doctors in the hospital had given up for dead. Reb Moshe Hirsch went around and gathered dozens of people, cajoling and convincing them, to give the young woman an emergency blood transfusion – an almost impossible task. Miraculously, she survived and gave birth to a family of Talmidei Chachomim.

    On another occasion, he met and conversed with a former member of the Irgun Tzvai Leumi, and got along fabulously well with him. Although worlds apart in philosophy, the two of them appeared as if they were the best of friends. His respect for others in conversation was well known.

    Rabbi Hirsch was an expert in the laws of Esrogim and sold Esrogim in meah Shearim. Numerous Gedolim were his customers year after year.
    A few years ago, an assailant threw acid in his face and Rabbi Hirsch was blinded in one eye on account of the attack.

    Reb Moshe Hirsch was a son-in-law of Rabbi Aharon Katzenellenbogen, the founder of the Neturei Karta. He grew up in Williamsburg, and studied in the Lakewood yeshiva under Rav Aharon Kotler. His son, Yisroel Meir, ybl”ct is the author of the Vilna Gaon Siddur, which is a masterful work.

    The funeral will be at 6:00 PM outside of the Yeshuos Yaakov synagogue in Meah Shearim. He leaves three children, Yisroel Meir, Mordechai, Tzivya, and one other daughter. He has one surviving brother of the seven siblings, Yitzchok Hirsch, living in California.

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    1. Good riddance to bad rubbish. He has a Din Rotzeach and we should celebrate this murderers death. Bubby once said “There is nothing worse than a capo”. I can almost hear his screams from hell and can do nothing other than smile. His body may even be too rotten for the worms.

      • When you become a Rav and have a Beis Din perhaps then you may give someone a Din of Rotzeach. Until then keep your mouth shut. He was not someone who I agree with but for someone on the internet paskening that he is has a Din of a Rotzeach you really go too far yourself. Keep your mouth shut and mind your own manners.

      • Can you please explain what chillel hashem means before using it for your own agenda ?

        Its people like you the So called chillel hashem expert’s who are yelling chillel hashem
        When ever you feel like it without understanding what chillel hashem really means

    2. its not worth bad mouthing the dead!!!! its one thing do critisize him while hes alive… maybe he can change his ways but now its to late and who r we to judge!!! i rest my case!:)

    3. He was a good man with strong believes, his believes would have been acceptably 70-80 years ago
      But in today’s society sadly he was not understood ZT’L

        • But he wasn’t a believer on avoidoh zoroh. He was a strong believer in Hashem ve Toirosoi. And his Ahavas Yisroel was wonderful and he would never use the phrase you used about him on ANY yid.
          You are right about ZTL, it should be ZTVKL and ZYA

            • he didnt cooperate with them – he told them to stop killing jews – he tried hard to make peace – he tried hard to have them stop killing yidden – who knows that maybe his work saved millions of jews?

      • No Godol ever agreed to mix and support Muslims.

        The Satmar Rebbe z”l put him into cherem.

        He caused enormous damage to the image of frum jews.

        • Not true , never ever put in cherem dont say lies in name of the Tadzhik hador!The Satmer Rebbe Ztl Was Chief rov abd of Eidah Charedis And He always Insisted on Appeal Parshas Porah for Torah Viyirah of Jerusalem …He also answered the complaints of Reb Aharon Katznellenboigen(Moshe Hirsch’ father in law and Talmid of Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld Ztl.) that he copied ‘their’ name Torah Viyirah for his own Satmer Mosdos,So that was also part of the reason they the Nk Torah Viyirah where Moshe Hirsch was a Lifetime participating paid Kollel member
          Again His PR methods were crazy but his goal was Hashems Kovod Yihai Zichroi Burich

    4. I can’t wait to see the gehinom of all you “tzaddikim” who dare speak like this about him! It’s easy to post your hatred on this site but it will be much harder for you to explain yourself to H”KBH. Most of you are complete amei ha’aretz who have no shaichus to having anything near a valid opinion. Let the real tzaddikim say what has to be said about the petirah and you please keep your mouths closed.

    5. while i dont support meeting with the palestinians i will say this oy vay on the fingers of # 1 3 4 5 6 i hope you all have a chance to do teshve

    6. Why was he taken to shharei tzedek? He should have gone to ramallah or amman for treatment. It is so funny how these people have no problem benefiting from public services and infrastructure. Roads, utilities HOSPITALS, etc. a little two faced if you ask me.

    7. Many people of the isrealy gov met with arafat and other terrorist! What’s the big deal? He meant to save jewish blood! Rather than sharon that didn’t care about jewish blood!

    8. for all of you that are happy and saying disrespectful things about this holy Tzadik I have a question to ask you.
      first of all this man died on LaG BaOmer on a day like this I don’t think Hashem would take his neshoma if it wasn’t pure.
      second of all did any of you ever learn anything about Kenois? just because he was a Lochem Hashem yes maybe not the way you were brought up doesn’t make him a bad person, and thirdly he said many times before that the only reason he spoke to the terorist was to calm them so they don’t blow up another Jew…
      He should be a mielitz yosher for all of us!!!

    9. “He was an extraordinary Talmid Chachom, and published articles in Torah journals. One such piece dealt with the notion of Shaim UMalchus in a bracha when the it was recited erroneously.”

      Shabsai Tzvi was also a talmud chachom. He was no Rabbi.
      Hirsch was a piece of you know what that should have been taken care of years ago.

    10. I would recommend that people think twice before posting negative comments. After 120 years we ALL are going to learn a few surprising things that will change what we THOUGHT we knew about other people. Once you say or post negative comments about other people, it goes on YOUR record to be reviewed after 120 years.
      BTW, Rabbi Hirsch was a cousin of mine. While I couldn’t agree with him on his views about working with the Palestinians & other issues, I would say he was one of the finest people I was privileged to meet.

      • Than you clearly have not met a lot of people. And it’s comical that you think that inciting to murder Jews harmonizes with being a fine person.

    11. What a shame to read all comments bashing a true tzadik and talmid chochem for having a different opinion than yours. It just makes me wonder what your comments were (would be) when the “moshiach schecker” of our dor was niftar.

      And to you vin i must say, your so called rabbi is going beyond all limits. Can you pleae say who the “Tzaddik who knew him since his youth commented that his views were skewed because he did not learn Mussar on a daily basis” was?

      • Nothing wrong with having a different opinion that any of us, but serving as Arafat’s advisor on Jewish affairs is not acceptable. If he voiced his opinion only among other Yiddin, that’s fine but to show support for a murderer?

      • Shabtai Tzvi was also a “tzadik” and most likely knew more Torah than you will ever accumulate in your life. Does it mean his cultist following should be respected? Yoshka also knew a lot of Torah, and had better understanding of it than most Jews in our generation. It doesn’t mean anything. If you use the Torah to create your own cults and manipulate your followers to worship some skewed ideology which threatens the safety of entire Klal Yisroel, you lose all the respect and privileges that comes with a “Tzadik.”

    12. While i am a Chassidish Yid that loves the State of Israel and i am strongly opposed to all the Haters of our Medina, i am deeply disturbed by the nasty comments written here , i do not agree with anything that Rabbi Hirsch Z’L did and said in his lifetime, on the other hand he was a Talmid Chacham and whatever he did and said he meant Lshem Shomayim and who are we to judge what awaits him in the Olem Haemes, let him rest in peace and he should be zoiche to a lechtigin Gan Eden.

    13. Many many years ago, when I was a seminary girl in yerushalayim, my friends and i were “regulars” at the Hirsch home for shabbos. A the time I knew that he had some ties to the NK but only learned later more about him. The Hirschs lived in a cramped meah shearim apartment and there were always shabbos guests form “off the wall”. The men sat at a different table from us but somehow, Rabbi Hirsch would always smile to the women and say good shabbos to us. The food was simple and heimish, the atmosphere warm and friendly and what made me come back time after time was the feeling of acceptance as a jew that you felt being in the Hirsch home. I was so proud of this family, who showed an equal amount of ahavas yisroel to me, a good seminary girl, and to secular, nonaffiliated, often inappropriately dressed girls who they welcomed into their home. The shabbos table talk was not heavy, or loaded with talks about religion and I could tell the wonderful impression the Hirschs, as chassiddic orthodox jews made on the nonreligious jews. Before we all judge, and spew our hatred and negative comments, maybe we should take a look inwards first and look at ourselves and our lifes actions.

        • I would not be surprised if all of the positive stories printed in the article about Hirsch actually pertained to another R’ Moshe Hirsch. Especially if Dushinsky chassidus, which is wrongly conflated with NK, is involved, an error like this is understandable from someone who is not Yerushalmi himself.

      • Baruch Dayan Emes – he tried so hard to make peace and stop the killing – even if you don’t agree with his methods, he really meant l’shem Shamayim and felt that his way would save Jewish lives (and I am sure it did to some extent) – I can tell Rabbi Hoffman is a chashuver Yid that he can put aside politics and give respect to someone who was so vilified by so many people, and focus on the good things he did.

    14. Please. He was no tzaddik. He was not Reb Amram Bloy ZTVKL or any successor to him. These posthumous stories of his tzidkus are laughable. May his death be a kapoore – for HIM and his son Yisroel mamshich darchov. Allah yenachem eschem besoich shaar avlei Jenin veRamallah.

    15. it seems that the “chilul hashem” posters havent learned mesechet Gitin the story of reb Yochanon ben Zakai who was smuggeled out to meet the “arafat” of that time to try to minimize the killings

      • Can you imagine what all posters on VIN would say about Yochanon ben Zakai
        Yochanon ben Zakai made a chilul hashem
        Yochanon ben Zakai will need to answer to god
        It’S outrages what Yochanon ben Zakai DID etc….


        • all you netureis are mentally very very disturbed you live in a fantasy of youre own making and cant accept reality you are all mindless morons who dont want or cant think for themselfs you writing here like this makes me think are you really capable of rational thinking i dont think so you go against youre own kind you truly need help beating on a dead horse wont get nowhere

        • Have some derech eretz!It’s R” Yochonon ben zakkai.How could you even begin comparing?R’ yochonon ben zakkai went out to perserve yavneh and the torah’s future,hardly the case here.

    16. Boruch Dayan Emess.
      A righteous, holy, pious and sincere man. He truly believed in what he did without any negios. He never seeked popularity or “played to the audience” He was a genuine oved Hashem according to his understanding. His place in Gan Eden is secore which is more than can be said for many of the posters here.
      I neither support nor agree with either NK’s views or their actions but that is not the point.
      Just to quote Voltaire. “I disgree with everything you say and will fight to the death for your right to say it”.

      • Voltaire, imach shmo, was a rabid hater of G-d and a leader of the 18th-Century French Sophists who worked diligently to uproot knowledge of Hashem in the world.

        He and his colleagues were the major influencers of the Haskala movement that destroyed Torah observance in Europe and then in America.

        It is all too fitting of you to quote him here.

      • He took blood money from Arafat. End of story. Er iz tiff, tiff in der erd serving as Arafat’s tea boy. Arafat is from soinim and could only be expected to do as he did. Hirsch was supposedly a Yid.

    17. I think it’s pretty dumb to say that # 5 killed this man with his tongue…the guy died and only later did # 5 make his comment. Duh! Use your brain!

      (Small font: this comment is meant to be sarcastic, as well as to raise the ire of all the fanatical frummies who think all Jews are perfect and rouse them into a frenzy. Have fun with this one boys.

    18. My daughters are his grand nieces and they went to visit him recently. He was a nice man who gave them brachos. Of course everyone disagrees with his politics. But you should know that the comments here saddned them deeply and made them cry. These girls love eretz Yisroel and appreciate the Medinah..

    19. i wish a condoldence to the family and may God comfort them.
      as an observant zionist, i disagree with his philosophy and religious choices specifically his interpretation of some of Gods commandments as it applies to the land of israel and current jewish state.
      i will leave it to the Almighty to make any judgements. i certainly will not judge him;

      as the child of a concentration camp survivor i find the analogy to a capo distasteful.
      (yes capos were about as low as a person could descend) however he was not a capo.

      i beleive his misguided religious perspective led him to make bad political decisions that were not in the interest of the jewish people or jewish state.
      sadly, there are today articles here in VIN of secular jews in europe condemning the jewish state from also a misguided perspective also promulgating bad political decisions.

      we need jewish unity and mutual respect, perhaps his passing may move us towards that goal..

    20. !ברוך דיין האמת

      !!!!אני מוחה על עלבון תורה ותלמוד חכם

      When he talked to the Palestinians in order to save Jewish lives everyone was against him, now most secular jews support having talks with the Palestinians, even more, now they support giving back most of the land and appeasing the Palestinians, now its okay huh?!!!

      Everyone has a right to do and say what he/she feels is right. Who appointed the israeli government as the representatives of the Jewish people?!!! When they want to deal with the arabs its okay but when someone else wants to do it he is vilified as the worst person ever?!! What ever happened to freedom of speech and free thinking? Does that not apply when it pertains to something you don’t like?

      I didn’t know Rabbi Hirsch but I respect him for the Torah he has learned and for doing what he believed was the right thing to do and not being brainwashed by the Zionist Brainwash machine like most of Klal Yisroel. You never know how many lives Rabbi Hirsch saved by his negotiations.

      תהא נשמתו צרורה בצרור החיים

      • G-d ALL Mighty there is a difference between a secular politician meeting with arafat (which is terrible by its self) and achasidishe looking rabbi who meets with him andkisses would you you feel about luncheon with hitler?

    21. To all you bashers & celebraters, do you also celebrate when Hashem’s true enemies die? The ones who secularize a Jewish nation. Or do you only celebrate when Zionist’s enimies die???

    22. I’m ashamed, how dare you ppl talking like this about a person who was just niftar, even the goyim don’t behave like that when an opposing politician dies, where is the respect for another Jew? I for 1 was against his every idea, but what do you have out of bashing him now. This Is just terrible what kind if ppl are brought up like that? Certainly not chasiddim

    23. What his proponents fail to understand is that through his words and deeds, Hirsch emboldened Araft and his cronies to continue the war of terror against Eretz Yisroel. I would postulate that this lead to many additional korbonos. This is what he will have to answer for in the Bais Din Shel MaAloh; his being a talmid chochom not withstanding. Arafat used him for PR purposes. He was Arafat’s guniea pig. Pretty stupid for an allegedly smart person. I’m sure that Rav Aaron Kotler is not coming out to greet him.
      I’m terribly upset that he’s being buried in the same cemetery as my father A”H.

    24. what a shame that it wasn’t Yom HaAtzmaut that he died on! Better still …. Yom HaAtzmaut of 62 years ago! Still, as long as this lunatic is gone, it is good for us all in Israel!

    25. I’ll try to be nice.
      I can’t believe the positive posters, who extoll his ahavas yisrael and his sincerity and caring and how he just want understood
      If anyone here believed anything other than the fact that he endangered yidden kipshutoi by his reckless acts
      If anyone here can fathom how he hugged a child murderer like arafat ym”s who’s hands were drenched in yiddishe blood and relished the fact that a yahud with a shtreimel no less was validating him
      If anyone here can accept his disgusting kow towing to the iranian hitler ym”s
      If anyone thinks that a few blatt gemorro and a table full of american bais yaakov girls in need of a shabbos meal can condone such atrocious. Misguided sick acts of treason.
      All I can say is you are all very very spiritually sick and in need of both a psychiatrist and a good dose of reality
      He is in front of his creator now, the judgement is in the hands of the ribbono shell olam the father of orphans and widows murdered by bloodthirty haters. It is not our place to judge merely to learn from
      Personally I am shocked that there exists a chevra kadisha willing to process his body for kvurass yisroel

      • Oh man are you sick ! I don’t condone his actions. Do you think he hugged whichever YM”s because he loved him? Because he thought this might thew the tension on klal yisroel. It sais when yakkov went to see aisuv that he hugged him and brought him gifts, do you think he loved him so much ? No ! This is a way we jews tried, to bow and to try and awaken pity by the goyim. I’m not saying it was right or wrong, but he certainly didn’t cause more bloodshed.That is a fabricated lie. If anything it brought down the tension. And if you think its true , bring some proof !!

        • You are an ignoramus.
          You can go bow down to goyim or Eisuv (?)
          How many times you want.
          This individual, was a sicko who did what he did out off extreme sickness of a secere attention seeking disorder.
          To all you mguided wierdos who claim this person who passed away, tried to do something positive ie prevnt bloodshed etc.
          How exactly did he do that??
          When exactly did these murderers stop trying to murder maim and torture us??
          I personally know a rov in Tunisia ZTvK”L who caught this guy trying to see arafat ym”s while he was exiled to tunis and basically powerless
          And he was trying to visit him. This Rov threw him and his buddy out of his house before shabbos, because he knew the danger this guy posed to th klal.
          And now we are hearing that he wasn’t even the learner that the article described, why am I not surprised
          Torah makes a person better not worse

    26. we celebrate lag baomer for stopping the deaths of talmidei chacamim, obviously his didnt have to stop.
      in zchus of his divrei torah hopefully he will merit the zchus to come down and warn the other neturei karte dogs to stop with the harm and chilul H they create

    27. I did not know of R’Hirsch, and I certainly did not agree with his politics. However, I am horrified by the comments posted here. Please remember, my fellow Yidden, do not judge, lest thou be judged. A yid died. Let us mourn his neshama!

    28. All the agudistim defending him are denying the authority of their own gedolim. but i guess its still “cool” in certain chareidi circles to praise NK.

    29. Shame on all of you big mouths, he’s a fellow jew and altough his beleives are not shared with all jews however we must respect him because you never know who’s right or wrong, it might very well be that he was 90% right with his actions so be carefull.

    30. The differences between the ideology of Al Quada, Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Fatah, Communist Party, Louis Farrakhan, etc. and the ideology of Neturei Karta:

      1. Ideology of Al Quada, Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Fatah, Communist Party, Louis Farrakhan, etc:

      Viva Palestina
      Freedom for Gaza and all “Palestine”
      Aid convoys to Gaza
      Return of all Palestinian refugees to their “rightful” land
      Eretz Yisrael belongs to Yishmael
      Denial of the first Rashi in the Torah
      Insane hatred for Jews who made great sacrifices to rebuild Eretz Yisrael

      2. Ideology of Neturei Karta (see nkusa web site):

      Viva Palestina
      Freedom for Gaza and all “Palestine”
      Aid convoys to Gaza
      Return of all Palestinian refugees to their “rightful” land
      Eretz Yisrael belongs to Yishmael
      Denial of the first Rashi in the Torah
      Insane hatred for Jews who made great sacrifices to rebuild Eretz Yisrael

    31. For all of you who claim he should be respected because of his gadlos in torah, remembe that derech eretz kodma l’torah. And certainly derech eretz here means conduct, not just work, since most of you chareidim/boymil pishers dont work.

    32. does no one else find it ironic that he died the day after the parasha that warns us not to be mechalel shem shamayim? just being linked to an organization that traveled to Iran to a holocaust denial conference makes him a traitor to Am Yisrael.

    33. He Was A Kadosh, V’tohor will definitely have a seat in gan eden near reb shimon!!! yes, he hated the medinah that discourages followers of the Torah and Mitzvos..FACT: every chiloni hates a charedi more then an Arab!

      can you imagin moshiach will dislike the medina? you would be looking for a place to hide out of embarrassment!

    34. He was appointed by Arafat as a Palestinian Cabinet Minister. He had problems with taking money from the Israeli government but no problem taking money from Arafat the murderer. They are now together again.

    35. send him to Iran i hear they are prepared to give him a state sponsored funeral and bury him with all the other “kedoshim” like khomeini and rafsanjani next to their shrine of hitler.

    36. He had no problem in receiving medical treatment in an Israeli hospital, did he? Why didn’t he get treated in Nablus…then he could have been laid to rest right near his good buddy & mentor, Arafat Y’M”S.

      He has the blood of innocent men, women and children on his hands. I wonder where the Aibishter will put HIM? Pure soul? Not a chance! He’s worse than Arafat, he & his lunatic followers. They are Jews; we don’t expect squat from an Arab.

      I am not mourning him. he now has to account to G-d. Good luck in that!

    37. It is well known that Rav Chaim Shmulevitz would not let him into the Mir Yeshiva in his life time and he told his talmidi mthat he had a din of a rodef. Yes people make mistakes but I can tell you the damage that the NK creates far far out weights any good they might do.

    38. VIN implies that this rasha is a complex man with shades of gray. I say he’s a very simple person to assess and purely black. There was no gray in him at all. Practically all of klal Yisrael knew of his rishus and will certainly not mourn his death. May his successors meet the same fate.

      • “May his successors meet the same fate”
        What fate is that? To live to 100 and revered by dozens of ehrliche and frum children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-great-grandchildren, etc.? Okay, 100 is not 120, but I think his “successors” (if there are any that can fill his shoes) wouldn’t mind the “same fate”!

    39. If he was so against the Tzionist ideoligy than why didn’t Hirsh make sure to be treated in a Gazan hospital? The Shaarei Tzedek hospital is a Tzionist institution. Why did he let himself be treated by Israeli doctors which were paid by the Tzionists. Who paid for his treatment in the hopital? He should’ve shown the world that “real Jews” go to Gaza to get treated under Gazan doctors. I mean Tzionism is “foy”!
      For anti-Tzionists it’s very easy to talk the talk, but they will not walk the walk.
      The boys who were incarcerated in Japan were helped by Tzionists as well as private individuals and all were hoping that the boy that is currently serving his sentence in Israel will end up there. Now we’re hoping the other two will. The biggest anti-Tzionim were pining for those kids to be sit out the rest of their sentence in an Israeli prison. Why?
      I’m definitely angry at the Israeli gov. for sitting with these bloodthirsty murderers of our people and throwing Jews out of their homes. Every time they give into these terrorists there are instant repurcussions. Hashem should open the eyes of these fools whether they are Tzionists or NK’s.

    40. The name of the wicked should be stamped out.

      This man was pure evil and profited from the death and murder of Jews.

      Wonder of he plunged into the flames beard first?

    41. I don’t understand these neturei karta who do they think makes sure when they land in Israel the Iraeli government is making sure everything s safe if they really were against Israel they should sneek into Israel because they don’t understand they have to support Israel

    42. No matter what one may think of the State and no matter how big a Judaic Scholar he may have been his embrace of Murderers and accepting money from them if today were not Lag B’Omer it would be a day not to recite Tachanun in celebration in truth I am not sure if he deserves Kevuras Yisrael

    43. why would anyone call this evil deranged rat a ‘rabbi’ is beyond me?
      i have absolutely no doubt had this piece of human garbage lived 65 yrs ago in Europe,he would have been the head KAPO in Auschwitz,and with glee and a big smile on his ugly face,would have herded his own brothers and sisters into the gas chambers,HOPE HE BURNS IN GEHENEM,and never comes out

      • Millhouse ,I’m surprised at You !
        Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld went to Jordan and discussed anti Zionism with the Arab government! to separate the yishuv Hayashan in yerushliam from the zionistic
        The basis of the founding of Eidah Charedis was to be separate and not give recognition to the Freier Regime. ..Never,did this change. Why even Rabbi Avigdor Miller had similar views and also the view many true Yekkes , and some Old Agudah members.
        Why Reb Boruch Kaplan refused to stay overnite! in Eretz Yisroel because of the Zionist Medinah! And he founded Bais Yakov in Brooklyn.
        The real ideology of agudah is difficult to comprehend and always seems to change according to the current weather!
        Rav Hirsch davvened Vasikin in Batai Naten daily , he raised his family in a one room apartment in meah sharim . Hashem is not afraid of his befriending the Arabs like reb Yochonon the holy Tana did.
        Lets not get carried away I think that the Medina killed the whole Sephardi Jewry.
        They are the real murderers in Hashems eyes Yaldei Taimon , pinchos segeloff , DEhaan and all others .. I dont agree with all his PR methods but his Target was torah and Yiddeshkeit , Yihai Zichroy Bor

        • You are wrong about Rabbi Avigdor Miller. I heard a taped shuir from Rabbi Miller zt”l and at the end people asked different shailos and one of them was about the what he says about the Zionists. Rabbi Miller answered that he doesn’t know the answer . He clearly said he can’t answer that question.
          The Eidah Chareidis did not ever go protest with, or stand with the terrorists.
          Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld zt”l went to Jordan to disscus anti-Zionism with the Arabs because he wanted to save Jewish lives- this was before Israel was a state- and he was trying to keep the Arabs from invading Eretz Yisroel. I doubt at the point we are today he would try to engage in pointless discussions with the Arab murderers.

          • you can’t post links here, but there is a recording available online where Rabbi Miller zt”l said that the “Neturei Karta and Jews like them stand up for the Glory of Hashem”

            • He was no talimid chochom. He was a misguided rasha whose learning was krum. His learning is highly questionable and of little value. No person with true Torah learning behaves like that. His learning was worthless, to say the least. Does Rav Elyahsum, Horav Moshe Feinstein, Horav Kanievsky, Horav Yaakov Kamenetsky, and hundreds more behave the way this lowlife did? The diffrenece is that the latter chashuva group applied what they learned to daily living while this lowlife learned because he was too lazy to get a job so he spent his time looking in seforim.

        • R’ yosef chaim zt”l didn’t come to discuss anti zionism!he came to show there was a orthodox community in israel what didn’t accept the secular zionist’s as their leader’s.

      • Et tu, Milhouse?
        Most of the negative comments I chalked up to as emanating from mostly uneducated people. But, you, Milhouse? I expected better from you. Or am I wrong about you?

        • By the way, you are wrong about the “mostly uneducated people” part. I’ll have you know, I read very anti-Zionist Yiddish newspapers every single week. They hok against Zionism like it’s Torah’s Moshe miSinai.
          There is NO EXCUSE and NO PURPOSE in befreinding or giving support to those who killed and want to kill our brothers and sisters.

    44. I am not judging the niftar BUT the argument that he met with Arafat ym”s and so did Israeli politicians – well many of us would object them meeting him too…

      • You are entitled to your opinion and so was he, he felt that he can save lives by meeting with the palestinians and so he did it, he endangered his and his family’s lives, and subjected him and his family to public ridicule in order to save lives. What have you all done to save Jewish lives lately?!

    45. Let Hashem judge him fairly.

      By the way, some are still fulfilling their sfira observances regarding the tikkun we do based on Rabbi Akiva’s students’ deaths. It might be best to try to understand the man and not just to vilify him. One don’t need to agree with him though.

    46. I can speak from personal experience.

      Hirsch was neither an angel nor a devil. He was a misguided super-strange fellow who drank from both pure and evil sources and (most likely) was led so far astray in large part by the pleasure he took in his public infamy.

      One thing I can tell you VERY clearly however is that he was no Weissmandel making deals with the devil to save Jewish lives. He genuinely loved Arafat and would brook no harsh words spoken against him. Does that mean that he supported the murder of Jewish schoolchildren? I’m not saying that. I don’t know. What I do know, because he told me, was that he regarded Arafat as “a very nice man” who he would defend when someone suggested otherwise.

      • what does “happy” mean?

        You cant sing shir hashirim, but certainly, some jews need to die. He was chiyuv meesah because he was a rodayf. His views endangered thousands of lives. He was also chiyuv misah because he made a huge Chilul Hashem, something that tshuva possibly does not even work for.

        The world is now a better place.

    47. It is a Din in Yoreh De’ah, Hilchos Aveilus, that when a Parush Min HaTzibbur dies, we should wear white and make a simcha. This is a halacha that comes down from Chazal, it is not new, and we have to keep it.

    48. Rabbi Hirsch might have been a talmid chochom & I would definitely without question say that he fought for the wrong side. I will use an example of a story that I heard from a satmar chosid that I used to learn with. Once in Williamsburg there was a freye jew living in a building full of chassidim & this jew dealt drugs from this building. When asked what to do, the Satmar Rebbe , (Rav Yoel Moshe) said it’s Assur to Masur a Yid, period. It appears that this idea was pashut and simple to Rabbonim from the previous generation that saw things that we did not, and they valued Jewish unity above all. It is also true that when Rabbi Hirsch tried to fly to meet Arafat what Rav Yoel Moshe and Rav Freund (in yerushalayim) were alive, they went onto the plane and yanked Rav hirsch off, by the orders of Rav Freund and the Satmat Rebbe.
      Today we have a “Hefker Velt”, and people are confused between the terms, “Talmid Chochom” And “Tzadik” One can know Shas backwards and forwards but not be a Tzadik.
      A Tzadik can never bring himself to make a yid feel bad, turn against Torah (as we have today in the Jewish world) or Chas vesholom help those that would murder all of us. We need ahavas yisroel.

      • Strange, that one cannot masur a yid, because if you look in Choshen Mishpot you will see that in certain cases the Shulchan Oruch paskens that not only is it permitted to go to the authorities, sometimes it’s a chiuv (obligation). I was once listening to a shiur by one of the gedolim who quoted this Satmar opinion, and firmly said that it is a falsification of halocho. Rav Pam zatzal was also asked the same question about drug dealers and said that it was a mitzvah to masur such a person. It’s amazing how many bube ma’asos there are about the Satmer Rav zatzal.

    49. I am very puzzled by many of the posts.
      There is a gemara that clealry states what criteria are used to evaluate or determine if someone is m’zera shel avrohom. I do not recall all of the listed standards however one of them is gomel chasodim.

      Why then do so many posts state that he is a fellow jew. Are you really convinced that this lowlife was m’zera shel avrohom avinu? I am not. If I truly believe what the gemara says, I have serious doubts whether he is a fellow jew, indeed.

    50. he was a publicity-monger and all he cared about was how his picture came out in time magazine etc. (i know this on a first-hand basis). r’ chaim shmuelevitz zt’l said that he has the din of a mosser and a rodef and that if it was in our power he would be killed.

    51. Bottom line – I woudn’t catorgarize him neither as a “kodash” for he was deffinitely wrong but neither can we term him as a ‘rasha’ he was a son in law of Rav A katzenelenbogen who was the leader of the NK in fact when he became his son in law at the first meeting R Aron Katzenelenbogen asked him what his opionion in regard to Zionism is it, b eing a yeshivah bachur a true masmid his innocent reply was – ich tu nisht in “politics” of course R A got all furious…got up..and shoute “politics” !?these are yeHadussodos in yeHadus” …it turned out that to the end he out did his ‘shver’!!Though unlike these selfhating Nk guy from monsey he did live in yerushalyim and was part of Israel and i beleive his intents might have been leSham shmayim and was based on his self assessed das tora (sic) and after all he was a talmid chacham though a deranged one..i dont think he would have met w ahmedjihad ..regardless we have to be careful the way we speak about someone like that and not confuse the other so called NK (who literal befreind the islamists all over and help them w thier cause) w him.

    52. Any members of the Naturei Karta that are not Israeli citizens should be deported back to the country with which they hold citizenship. The rest should be relocated to whatever parts of the West Bank and Gaza that are turned over to the Palestinians in any peace agreement. They are enemies of the State and as such have no business living in a “de jure” Jewish State that they so despise!

    53. I’m not one of his supporter but wait a minute…We are talking about a Jew. How is it possible to write things like “take his body and bury it in Gaza”??? Like him or not, but he is a Jew, a religious Jew who fought for what he believed was right and fully kept the Torah and its Mitzvos. He has a share in the world to come as such. Stop that hatred.


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