New York, NY – On Israel, Jews and Leaders Often Disagree


    Photo illustration onlyNew York, NY – Criticizing Israel has long been the equivalent of touching a third rail in many Jewish families and friendships, relegating disagreements to a conversational demilitarized zone where only the innocent and foolhardy go.

    “You cannot really engage in that conversation,” said Phillip Moore, a teacher in this Detroit suburb who has embraced strong opinions on many topics in his life – on politics, education, even religion – but avoids the subject of Israel at gatherings of his Jewish relatives.

    “You raise a question about the security forces or the settlements and you are suddenly being compared to a Holocaust denier,” said Mr. Moore, 62. “It’s just not a rational discussion, so I keep quiet.”

    But the recent tension between the Obama administration and the Israeli government over the stalled Middle East peace process have put the questions underlying those long-avoided family discussions directly in the public spotlight. They have raised serious questions about whether the traditional leadership of the American Jewish world is fully supported by the mass of American Jews.

    The issues arose last month when American officials openly rebuked Israel over the announcement of new housing plans in east Jerusalem, and are likely to grow as indirect talks between Israelis and Palestinians, mediated by the Obama administration, resume this week. President Obama, working to ease those tensions, met on Tuesday with the Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, who had criticized the administration in an advertisement last month.

    Many other prominent Jews, representing the conservative organizational leadership that has been the dominant voice of the Jewish community for decades, have also recently criticized the Obama administration’s pressure on Israel. Some have even accused the White House of sabotaging the foundations of the Jewish state.

    Former Mayor Edwin I. Koch of New York spoke for many stalwart Israel backers last Sunday when he told an angry crowd of 500 gathered outside the Israeli Consulate in Manhattan, in a videotaped statement, that President Obama’s demand for a settlement freeze in East Jerusalem was nothing less than an orchestrated effort “to undermine the legitimacy of the state of Israel.”

    But while those voices have been strong and their message unmistakable, a newly outspoken wing of Israel supporters has begun to challenge the old-school reflexive support of the country’s policies, suggesting that one does not have to be slavish to Israeli policies to love Israel.

    “Most Jews have mixed feelings about Israel,” said Rabbi Tamara Kolton of the Birmingham Temple, a secular humanistic congregation in Farmington Hills. “They support Israel, but it’s complicated. Until now, you never heard from those people. You heard only from the organized ones, the ones who are 100 percent certain, we’re right, they’re wrong.”

    In the 2008 election, 78 percent of Jewish voters supported Mr. Obama, and surveys have suggested that most continue to back his policies.

    In a survey taken after the diplomatic skirmish of March, the American Jewish Committee – the heart of the traditional mainstream – found little change in the level of Jewish support for Mr. Obama’s handling of relations with Israel. The survey found that 55 percent approved of his handling of Israeli relations, compared with 54 percent last year. (His disapproval rating rose five points, to 37 percent.)

    Jeremy Ben-Ami, the founder of a Washington lobby known as J Street, the latest of several organizations representing the voice of liberal Jews who support Israel but not all its policies, said many people have long felt ignored or silenced by the pro-Israel establishment in the United States.

    “People are tired of being told that you are either with us or against us,” he said. “The majority of American Jews support the president, support the two-state solution and do not feel that they have been well represented by organizations that demand obedience to every wish of the Israeli government. If you had taken their word for it, Obama should have gotten 12 percent of the Jewish vote. But he got 80. That should say something.”

    Within the vast spectrum of opinion, though, American Jews continue to have strong attachments to Israel, and the recent tensions have produced intense, often angry, debate. The rancor led delegates at the annual convention of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, an umbrella community relations group that includes almost all major American Jewish organizations, to adopt a resolution in February calling for a halt to “a level of uncivility, particularly over issues pertaining to Israel, that has not been witnessed in recent memory.”

    Abraham Foxman, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, predicted that Mr. Obama’s approval ratings among Jews would soon reflect what he called “a deep distress” over his approach.

    “People are angry,” he said. “Americans do not want peace shoved down the throats of the Israelis.”

    But Professor Steven M. Cohen, a sociologist at Hebrew Union College in Manhattan who co-wrote a study last year charting a steep decline in attachment to Israel among younger Jews, said the younger and liberal-leaning are frustrated at being labeled “anti-Israel” or even anti-Semitic for expressing opposition to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories.

    Many liberals cite a recent crackdown in San Francisco as an example. After leaders of the Jewish Community Federation of San Francisco learned that one of the film groups it supported had sponsored the screening of an Israeli documentary critical of Israeli security forces, “Rachel,” about an American woman killed in Gaza, they adopted new rules early this year prohibiting any of the cultural organizations it supports from presenting programs that “undermine the legitimacy of the state of Israel.”

    William Daroff, vice president for public policy of the Jewish Federations of North America, defended the San Francisco federation’s decision. “An open exchange of views within the pro-Israel community is good,” he said. “But there has to be some sort of line between constructive discussion and destructive communication that does not recognize Israel as the eternal home of the Jewish people.”

    The questions that Jews are now facing are rooted not in being for or against Israel, but in the shadings of difference over how to achieve peace, and the complexities of the relationship between Israel – a state whose government is now dominated by nationalist and ultrareligious politicians – and the predominantly liberal-leaning and secular base of Jewish support in the United States.

    The struggle to define the middle ground was in evidence last month among a small group of Jewish Americans who gathered in a suburban Detroit synagogue to describe the view of the recent turmoil from somewhere in the demographic middle.

    They were seven people from the “more or less inactive” list of the Birmingham Temple, said Rabbi Kolton, who gathered them at the request of a reporter because they roughly matched the profile of about 60 percent of American Jews, according to various studies: They do not belong to a synagogue and do not attend services or belong to Jewish organizations, yet they consider themselves Jewish – bound in a web of history, culture and DNA to their Jewishness, and by extension, to Israel.

    “My parents were Jewish, so I’m a Jew,” said Rosetta Creed, 87, a retired hospital administrator. “I get into arguments with people who knock Israel.”

    All said that they had voted for Mr. Obama, supported his efforts to prod Israel and believed there would never be peace in the Middle East without determined intervention by the United States.

    Nonetheless, “It makes me angry that the Israelis are always blamed for the problems and asked to make concessions,” Ms. Creed said. “You know, the Israelis are not the ones launching rockets and placing fighters in houses with children inside.”

    In different ways, each referred to the history of Jewish persecution throughout the world and noted that the absence of it here and now did not spare one the occasional flash of insight and dread – when swastikas desecrate a synagogue or neo-Nazi militias appear on the six o’clock news – that Israel will always be one’s last sanctuary.

    With many of their children intermarried, they pondered what meaning Israel would hold for their grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

    “Let’s face it, with each generation we are getting less and less Jewish,” said Irving Hershman, an insurance agent who was raised in an Orthodox home. He predicted, with regret, that the bonds between American Jews and Israel would dissipate in 5 or 10 generations.

    Mr. Moore, the headmaster, expressed frustration that the voice of Israeli advocacy in the United States was monopolized by what he called the “Israel right-or-wrong” camp.

    Israel is not just the homeland of Jews but of Jewishness, he said, and should be known for its embrace of the values at the core of Judaism – truth, fairness, kindness, freedom.

    That is what he would tell those hard-line relatives of his, he said, “though I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t change their minds.”

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    1. Unfortunately, this is particularly true in the Orthodox community. Even though a large majority of the Gedolim were anti-zionist before WWII, anyone in the community who criticizes the Zionist state is shunned.

      • #1. The difference is obvious, they were against the ideology, but once Zionism became a fact of life what was there to oppose.

        #2. Many of the Gedolim have changed their mind after the war, especially the Lubavitcher Rebbe Z”L, Belze Z”L and Munkatcher Rebbe, Z”L etc.

        #3 You are confusing anti-Zionists with Pro-Palestinians. As the Munkatcher Rebbe Shlita once said “Those that are demonstrating side by side with the Palestinians are siding with a much older and larger enemy than the Zionists. Yishmael is our enemy for thousands years, so why are we fighting their cause?”

        The gedolim of the past where against the Zionists, not because they sympathized with the Palestinians, but because Moshicah has not come. Israel belongs to us, but we were not allowed to take it with force. The Palestinians are thieves, they are sitting on our land. We are not hashems police, we need to demonstrate the Zionists without endangering our brothers in Israel, those that do are defectors.

        • Excellent answer to #1. There is an additional reason. World War 2 destroyed a large portion of the Jewish community. The Nazis killed Jews because they were Jews, not because they had black hats or were Zionists. It is as simple as loving your fellow Jew while waiting for the Moshiach to come.

        • Another gedol who changed his mind was Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l, who had been on the Agudath Israel Moetzes but became the leader of Mizrachi.

        • I hate to compare Tzadikim, but the Gedolim I was referring to were of an entirely different caliber. I was referring to the Chofetz Chaim, R’ Chaim Ozer, the Minchas Elazar, R’ Chaim Brisker, and the list goes on.
          These people were not Anti Zionist because they thought they would be taken to E”Y on a magic carpet. They were opposed to it for two primary reasons:
          a. They were familiar with the heads of the movement – the ideological brothers of the Bulsheviks;
          b. they were aware of the threat that displacing a part of a nation that is hundreds of millions strong (the Arab nation) would pose to a Jewish state.

          And they were right. The zionist aggressiveness has cost us, and is costing us, dearly. And if you think you can trust those leading the state, just read some Israeli headlines.

          • That’s exactly the point I was making.

            Now that the state of Israel has been founded and is in such a threat because of the millions strong (Arab Nation) what should we do, add to that threat by showing the world that we agree with the Arabs or should we tell the free world that we defend Israel right to exist without terror? You see as they say in Chazal Kan Kodem Lmaseh Kan Lachar Hamaseh?

            In regards to he rest what is there to argue? The Bulshaviken do not exist anymore (and I highly doubt Hertzel was a Bulshavik) and the head of state is an American educated Israeli and the Chareidi sector is very well represented in the coalition. Besides, it’s really of topic. The question is, do we side with Israel as a whole with millions of Jews frum and not or do we side with Blood hungry terrorists that are not interested in you appeasing them, they want Israel.

            • “tell the free world that we defend Israel right to exist without terror? “
              You know what? You so easily forget the amazing country you milk of everything, AMERICA, is right now living in terror. Because of what we do for the WORLD, we have the right FIRST AND FOREMOST to live without terror. Why dont you worry about America first for once, if you havent noticed we are losing our edge….doesnt help that most of the people who live here now have ties to EVERY OTHER country but the one that defends them and lets them and their families live the way they want. Such a joke.

            • I really would like to respond, but have no idea what you are saying.

              If you are saying that we are having terror because we defend Israel, than you are dead wrong to suggest that we abandon truth and fairness for interests, besides the fact that you are wrong in fact, Arabs are against the west regardless of Israel. I’ll prove it to you, they attacked so many countries that are not close to Israel as well, i.e the UK, Madrid train bombings, Algiers bombings, 2002 Bali bombings etc.

              Israel is their enemy because of the west, it really is not so much connected to the prior altercations with the Palestinians, that is just a cover. Read the Koran and you’ll see their religion is rooted in terror. They were incapable of fighting and fulfilling their obligation until the west gave them weapons.

      • Actually you are incorrect. There were indeed Gedolei Yisroel who were against Zionism and the Israeli state before WWII, but the majority of Gedolei Yisroel in Europe, America and Palestine were for the creation of the state.
        In fact, during the Kenessiah HaGedolah in Vienna, 1929, the majority of the Gedolim there has voted for the creation of the state.

          • Back in my yeshiva days, I once agreed with people like you about Zionism. My Rebbe got very upset with me and called me to his house to read something out of one of Rav Kook’s Sforim. He proceeded by telling me about his talks on this very issue with his rebbe, R’ Yaakov Kamenetzky who told him about this ‘little tidbit’. Those were the words of R Yaakov. I have since changed my worldview, which, as the Rambam says is the true way of a holy person, to change when you have been proven wrong.
            I spent some time checking into the events of the 1929 Kennesiah HaGedolah, and spoke with very close friends who are talmidei chachamim, and whose fathers and teachers were at the conference.
            There has been much revisionism in the Charedi world….

      • Only because the reality is that the State exists and one cannot weaken the State of Israel, without at the same time, weakening the security of the Jews living there.

        It doesn’t make Israel halachicly acceptable in theory, but for pikuach nefesh, there is little practical choice.

    2. I do not agree with the way the Israeli government handles some issues, but I feel we need to provide a united front. It would be OK for there to be inter-Jewish discussion, but this would be difficult and if it did succeed, there would be cries of Cabal! Taking over the world! For that reason we must all support one group and change it’s views to suit ours, rather than having tons of little groups that never agree and can’t tell the US government what we want. We should leave Jews being divided in Israel, where they can do it, because they are the majority.

    3. These are assimilated American liberals who are embarrassed to be Jewish. They really wish they were not born Jewish, so in order to redeem themselves to their anti-Semitic friends, they must publicly turn on Israel.

      • Ok everyone is quick to attack or accuse non religious “assimilated Jews”, but what is the reason for Frum and Chassidic Jews being anti-Israel then? I have never seen a single black hat community ever march at Israel day parade or participate or donate to AIPAC, campaign and lobby for Israel in Washington, but you will find a lot of assimilated American Jews do participate.

        • When assimilated American Jews support Israel, that is for many of them the only connection they have to Judaism and the Jewish people. When they reject Israel, they have nothing.

        • I’ll answer you.

          #1 There was a big support rally a couple of years back, organized a by Agudah and thousands upon thousands of Jews came, yes black hat jews. It was not a pro zionist rally, but rather a rally against the disengagement and a gathering of prayer for our brethren in Israel.

          #2 Black hat Jews cannot support Israel the way you want, with parades and marches as they see no benefit in doing so. While we thank Hashem that we can visit Israel and live there, something our forefathers would only have dreamed of, we only celebrate the days mentioned in the Talmud as Holidays.

        • An absolute lie. Many orthodox Jews march and demonstrate for Israel. While many orthodox Jews disagree with the non-religious aspect of Israeli society, they are intimately and passionately connected to Israel by the fact that
          a) Israel is Erets Hakoidesh and in prayer we say three times a day ” return us to Jerusalem,
          b) a Jew is precious to us and Israel is full of Jews
          c) we are not looking to emulate or ingratiate ourselves to non-Jews by showing how we are just like them
          d) we are a lot better informed about the realities of the Arab history and intentions Vis a Vis Israel.
          e) Any fare minded person who is aware of the facts cannot possibly want a two state solution or want Israel to return to the 67 borders. When Israel was within the 67 borders they had to fight two wars, in 56 & 67 and endure constant attacks. Israel was attacked and repelled the enemy thereby gaining land that the Arabs obtained through their attacks in 48. religious Jews think and worry about Israel all the time.

        • The vast majority of people sending their kids to Israel to visit and learn are the orthodox.
          The vast majority of people going to live in Israel are the orthodox.
          The vast majority of people going to visit Israel are the orthodox.

          How many reform and conservative adults or children visit and spend time or live in
          Israel compared with the number of people these movements claim to have?
          Out of the millions of people in reform and conservative who makes aliyah?

          • Those are called Modern Orthodox Jews who have no shame in marching at Israel Day Parade or wearing knitted kipos, while typical black hat communities only “support Israel” when it suits their needs like sending kids to yesihovs for a year in a kolel. When their kids return safe home, they continue bashing in a condescending way the “cheloni Jews in Zionist government.”

    4. This article is a crock, chances are Rabbi Tamar represents a bunch of people who aren’t even Jewish, and JStreet speaks for the administration. Orthodox Jews as a whole support Israel and not any disengagement policies. This article was put out as propaganda by the Left who realize they are a minority.

    5. A typical smear article from the NYT. The point, divide and conquer. They manipulate and pick your brain. Very talented but mean spirited and dishonest.

      “In the 2008 election, 78 percent of Jewish voters supported Mr. Obama, and surveys have suggested that most continue to back his policies. In a survey taken after the diplomatic skirmish of March, the American Jewish Committee – the heart of the traditional mainstream – found little change in the level of Jewish support for Mr. Obama’s handling of relations with Israel. The survey found that 55 percent approved of his handling of Israeli relations, compared with 54 percent last year. (His disapproval rating rose five points, to 37 percent.)”

      Do you see how they confuse his handling of Israel with the percent that voted for him.

    6. To 11 wow you are almost 100% correct that I’m going to recomend that the normaleh faction of neturi hire you as our spokesman the only mistake you make is that when we talk to Arabs or show them we are not zienists than we hopfuly are lowering some of the level of hatred and maybe we will save a Jew some day as has prooven to be the case in some inctences and this was the derech of the chachmim mizman ya’akov avinu as the gemorah teaches us to try to apeese our enemies with presents etc as we learn from ya’akov. The greatest meorer medunim and sinah ageinst us yiden are the zienists and they are constently over the isur of hisgarus wich we are mechyav not to do and to try and save yiden by not angering our enemys but that dose not meen we support the arabs we just want to try and save some yidden by keying them know we are not all tzyonim. And no we may not stand in protest with them, but yes we may protest the medina

    7. This artical mixed up Jewdisam with Israelites. Jewdisam is a religion while the Israelites are a nation. The term Jew come from the Talmud in Megilah that Mordechai was called a Jew even though he was a Benjamini because the religion is called Jewish.
      Jews listen to their Gedolim every one according to their perspective, while the Israelites and their Leaders Often Disagree.
      Ain lonu elo divrei ben amrom

    8. Hello #20, you say, “And they were right”. And I say, you are dead wrong! It is the Ratzon Hashem that there should be a State of Israel and so it is. No matter what Gadol or Rebbe says or has said differently.
      And you say “it has cost us”. What exactly has it cost us? That there are thousands learning Torah? That there is untold Chesded in E’Y? That we can go to the MeKomos HaKedoshim?
      Please go and visit your friend Hirsh Yemach Shemo at his grave. You two will get along just fine. Just bring some cool clothes with you if you know what I mean…..

      • How exactly do you know what Razton Hashem is? Has he appeared to you lately?

        It has cost us dearly in the form of 24,000 Jewish lives in the course of Israel’s wars and as a result of terror attacks.
        It has cost us dearly in that hundreds of thousands of Sefardi Jews were uprooted from their homes as a direct response to the establishment of the state of Israel.
        It has cost us dearly in that a Jew cannot wear a yramulka safely in large Eruopean countries.
        It has cost us in that the fact that 7,000,000 Jews live in constant threat of being destroyed by Iran or another Muslim country.

        I’m not sure what exactly justifies the price.

    9. these godolim say good and these godolim say bad and both say there opinion is das torah.a point of information may be when moetzai gedolai torah opined that to give back land for peace must be left for the experts in secuirity.but when barak ran for p.m. and claimed he would ask for a national vote on the same matter and let us not forget barak being an expert on secuirity,the moetzai gedolim were uncomfortably silent on the matter.i guess to shtok is das torah. i am confused bal abayit………

    10. “Israel is not just the homeland of Jews but of Jewishness, he said, and should be known for its embrace of the values at the core of Judaism – truth, fairness, kindness, freedom.”
      Do you think he was able to keep a straight face while typing that? I don’t!

    11. “…and in prayer we say three times a day ” return us to Jerusalem”

      I have to ask……instead of praying to be there….why arent you there? Seriously, all you do is complain about the USA…..please explain WHY you are here then.


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