Waterloo, IA – Underage Slaughterhouse Workers Testify in Rubashkin Case

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    Sholom Rubashkin, left, talks with Defense Attorney F. Montgomery Brown during a break following open statements of the child labor changers trial at the Black Hawk County Courthouse on May, 10, 2010, in Waterloo, Iowa. (Rick Tibbott)Waterloo, IA – A former underage worker cried Monday while testifying she was exposed to harsh chemicals at an Iowa slaughterhouse where she and other teens worked 12 hours a day, six days a week.

    Yesenia Cordero Mendoza, now 18, was one of two former underage workers to testify against former manager Sholom Rubashkin, who faces 83 child labor violation charges stemming from a May 2008 raid at the plant in which 389 illegal immigrants, including 31 children, were detained. It’s the second trial for Rubashkin, who awaits sentencing in a separate federal financial fraud case that followed the raid at the former Agriprocessors slaughterhouse in Postville.

    Mendoza began crying while testifying about the raid and the arrest of her boyfriend and other workers.

    “I don’t want to remember it,” she told prosecutors through a translator.

    She testified she was 15 when she used false documents to get hired at the slaughterhouse. It was common knowledge that the plant hired minors, so she forged documents that gave her age as older, and plant officials never asked for any other identification to verify it, she said. When government inspectors came to the plant, underage workers were sent home, she said.

    Mendoza and Rony Ordonez Capir, who was 16 when hired, said the work involved harsh chemicals that burned their eyes, hands and throats.

    Ordonez said he cut meat using hooks and knives and washed down conveyor belts with bleach and chlorine. Mendoza testified she measured the temperature of meat packaged with dry ice.

    Ordonez, who is now 20, said he received no formal training and learned how to do his job by watching his co-workers. He said he was cut and injured several times on the job, and workers frequently slipped and fell because of animal fat and grease on the floor.

    He said he began work at 4 a.m. and would work 12 hours or more. When asked when he didn’t complain about the ill-effects from the chemicals he used, he said, “If I told them, they wouldn’t listen.”

    Each child labor charge is a simple misdemeanor that carries a potential penalty of $625 and 30 days in prison.

    Rubashkin likely faces a longer sentence in the financial fraud case. Prosecutors asked a judge last month to sentence him to 25 years in prison. The judge has not yet made a decision.

    During opening statements earlier Monday, attorneys argued over how much Rubashkin knew about the teens — at least one as young as 13 — working at the plant.

    Assistant Iowa Attorney General Laura Roan told jurors all the children were working with false documents.

    “Everyone remained willfully blind to the age and legal status of the applicants,” she said. “That’s what the evidence will show.”

    Rubashkin’s attorney, F. Montgomery Brown, called the plant’s hiring process flawed and dysfunctional but said prosecutors needed to prove more than bad management to get a conviction. He said they had to show Rubashkin wanted minors working at the plant.

    “Negligence, bad management, that’s not going to cut it,” Brown said. “Not one witness will tell you Sholom Rubashkin wanted them there.”

    He also said letters from Agriprocessors’ attorneys to federal immigration officials indicated the company knew the 2008 raid was coming and offered their full cooperation.

    “If (Rubashkin) knew there were minors in the plant,” he said, “would not a reasonable person have told somebody to get them out of there before ICE got there?”

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    164 COMMENTS

    1. 1) He paid them the same amount like adult for what good reason should he hire a child if a adult is working better and stronger?
      2) It was common to hire children see other news article today that they were granted working permit if they testify against him why should a small stinker rotzer not lie for such good deal?
      3) It was common then why did theu false paper?
      4) Shalom was working in office and was not in HR he had better work then steering those folks in eye and figure out how old they are

    2. The whole purpose of this trial is to show judge linda that he is not a first time offender that’s why the state of iowa is working so hard to collaborate with the fed’s.

    3. Nit picking this poor guy. If you can bring proof that these kids were kidnaped and or forced to come work for agri , then I understand the goverments case. Here you have kids looking for jobs forging their papers , then SMR is in trouble!. USSR (USA , I’m not sure) 2010 !

      • They claimed to be adults. They appeared to be adults. They came and applied for the job. And they could have quit at any time. They *wanted* the job; surely it would have been cruel to refuse them. Turning them away and refusing to employ them would be treating them like garbage.

        • You are so twisted it is frightening. They stayed there because no one else would hire them, as they were children. Your hero over there was caught with fake documents…..meaning he knew their age, and kept hiring them….they work cheap, fast and quietly, and we all know that. So now you are going to say that this thief is SUCH A WONDERFUL MAN that he helped these poor children when no one else would hire them?? Why do you think they took huge pictures of the kids and hung them for the jury to see?? becuase they look like BABIES and it is obvious and the louder you scream, the wider my smile….I CANNOT wait for this to be over and your foot to be in your mouth AGAIN.

      • If conditions were bad why isn’t there any charges whatsoever about the conditions which had NO violations. Additionally, the article says the accusing worker states in response to the question as why he didn’t complain and he responds “if I would complain,they wouldn’t listen”. That is pure conjecture ! And the other witness admits she obtained forged documents. When the Holocoaust was done, the Nazis would pick only workers over 16 and many tall boys stated their age and went to work without question. How dare u accuse the Rubashkins when there are no charges regarding plant conditions only the age of the employees. U have nazi tsinas chinam traits by your accusations!

      • Shame on U! Rubashkin is not even being tried for any (whatsoever!) illegal plant conditions.
        W#here is the Kosher Hechsher Rabbi to defend Rubashkin on this attempt to paint Rubashkins . Did u geniuses forget that the Federal agent was refused employment by Agri because of improper social Security papers and only got hired after FBI gave him real original papers. These underage people had real papers stolen indentities that checked out. In fact the Human Resources person from Agri had her conviction overturned in
        an Appeals court. These witnesses are the criminals openly admitting they forged papers. But the law is that if they did not know their Social Security papers were stolen and belonged to someone else tthey are NOT guilty.

        • Any business owner is responsible for what goes on in his company. The “gee your honor I had no idea she was only 16” defense is no defense. Look simply at the one aspect of the federal trial this yokel brings up: “the Federal agent was refused employment by Agri because of improper social Security papers and only got hired after FBI gave him real original papers” Stop thinking with your heart, the RBSO gave you a brain, right? He was hired? WHY?

          The agent went not once, but TWICE with phony papers and was turned away. TWICE. Imagine now you are the owner. The same shmendrick now comes a THIRD time to get hired and now his papers look really legit. What do you do? Do you hire him like AGRI did? OF COURSE NOT. Any sane and rational business owner would tell some yutz who came THREE times to get hired WITH THREE DIFFERENT SETS OF PAPERS that if he had a note from Obama and a letter from the UN he still WILL NOT BE HIRED. Why would the papers be good the third time if they were no good twice before? I would NEVER hire a guy like that. AGRI did. Why? Because exploiting labor forces mean MORE PROFIT. Your hearts are in the right places but start using your brains.

          • Dear comrade Shaul,
            I can understand how it’s difficult for you to imagine what goes on in the capitalist-pig factories, especially since you’re so busy manning the barricades, overthrowing imperialist governments and building the workers’ paradise. But the reality in an *actual* business especially one that employs (sorry..exploits) many dozens of proletariat is such that if a schmendrick does come even 10 times there is no guarantee that HR (i.e. capitalist Human Resources Exploitation Department) would care or remember that the said schmendrick came before. Here’s a practical real-life example: I work for a large, successful and very-well-run company (I am not giving you the name so that you don’t stage strikes here). 1.5 years ago I had to fire a guy for terrible performance. HR had a thick file on him. I now need to hire people and HR sends me resumes of candidates after having performed “screening”. Imagine the surprise when I saw the resume of that fired individual (by the way listing all the things that *I* did as his own accomplishments). And the HR missed that with all their screening.

            FBI tried 3 times and succeeded, dear comrade – what does that tell *you*?

            • FBI tried 3 times and succeeded, dear comrade – what does that tell *you*?

              That AGRI were morons for hiring him the third try IF they were doing things legit, which according to SMR he himself admits he doesn’t deserve manager of the year award. And that as long as they had plausible denial they had no problem hiring an exploited work force.

            • I agree 100% the management there appears to have been completey horrendous. Rubashkin is the first to admit this and would have liked nothing more in this world than to quit and go into teaching or shlichus – his words. Regardless, as a CEO / leader he is 100% responsible for all the screw-ups under his command and he must take the fall. That’s how it works.

              But, please be intellectually honest for a moment: is horrible management a causus belli for 25-to-life?! Is this not insane? Did he not receive enough punishment already for the crime of being an inept / unqualified manager (and you can throw the faulty / messy accounting into that too):
              Let’s see: the family business is gone. He’s broke by all accounts and depends on the community that he used to support all his life. He spent months in jail already. For a frum Jew a day in jail is worth at least a year, R”L.
              And why can’t we as Jews, his brothers and sisters find a way to at least not knock him more and more at every opportunity and celebrate his downfall? What is there to gain from that? You don’t want to support him and collect signatures? Fine. But can you restrain yourself from asking for more blood?

          • The Human Resources person was the hiring verification person. Does the President of most corporations with hundreds of workers do the hiring personally?? Where is your head? Is this true about the FBI informer , or not-that is the question? Getting legal papers means u must hire that person ! Is it true or not??
            Why was the HUman Resource person at AGRI acquitted due to how the Social Security rules were written for improper usage. U are sadistic in that u revel in blaming Rubashkin for
            anything u can think of. Nat Lewin wrote that Rubashkin in the Fraud trial (before he was hired!) was “guilty at most for lying on an application” Go anywhere in any state and see the illegal immigrants doing domestic help with no papers. You have goyishe blood in your sadistic veins!

      • First of all if you were such a human rights activist than you would see to it that all of these”children” were in school. Why don’t you go after there drug using alcoholic parents that have no clue where there kids are. If you want to take a stand than do it in a positive way and help these kids get back to school. If anything Agri was just keeping these kids off the streets so they don’t sell there bodies and do drugs. Shone!

      • YOu are sooooooo gullible. Do you believe everything that you hear in the news? Are you that stupid? Human rights activist, my foot. You care more about animals than human beings.

      • From the testimony, these “children” forged documents to acquire these jobs, and the only tearful testimony came when they described the immigration raids!

      • “isnt it a chillul hasm the way he treated those workers!!!”

        To be truthful, this entire debacle has been one חילול השם after the next, which does no one (including Rubashkin) any good. You know, there is a very good discussion of חילול השם in יומא פ”ו ע”א, which in part states:

        אבל מי שיש חילול השם בידו אין לו כח בתשובה לתלות ולא ביום הכפורים לכפר ולא ביסורין למרק אלא כולן תולין ומיתה ממרקת

        That’s a very severe indictment!

        Regrettably, in this דור תהפוכות, there is little fear of חילול השם, just as there is little fear when it comes to dishonesty, fraud, enabling child molesters, money laundering, and all the other shameful practices we witness.

        • Actually chillul hashem is when you disobey the torah, I believe your issue is with the disobeying the goverment. For real chilul hashem I would urge you to begin talking to our liberal friends out there.

          • “Actually chillul hashem is when you disobey the torah…..”

            You know as much about חילול שם שמים ברבים as you know about דינא דמלכותא. Can you please supply the מקור for the above statement? Or, is that something you came up with on your own?

      • How did “he treat them”? They washed down the machines with bleach? I use bleach every day in my own home for laundry and cleaning purposes. They slipped on grease? Is that something HE did to them? Mr. Rubashkin didn’t treat them wrong. It doesn’t say ONE WORD in this article about mistreatment. These LIARS forged documents so that they could get a job there. THEY should be prosecuted for falsifying papers. They were not drafted or kidnapped. This case should be dropped.

        • There are laws that protect minors from people like you. Unions came into existance because there are people like you.

          Using your logic, since hashem told us that we have to suffer, then we have to suffer. Why are you complaining when the goyim beat us up? You should enjoy it!!

          • I beg to differ. Unions came into existence precisely because of people like *you*. I.e. the “free thinking” yeshiva drop-out mishugoyim who had nothing better to do than read “Das Kapital” and make a shturem about the exploitation of the working class. Not only that, the gulag with its 50 million victims came into existence because of people like you. The KGB, the Cold War, all of it came into existance because of people like you. B”H that whole enterprise crumbled and I said l’chayim. But it looks like the phylosophy that led to all of this still endures. H’ Yiracheim.

            Nobody forced these people to lie, supply false papers or work there. Gendikt. If they were exploited so terribly I’m sure there were plenty of options for them and their parents (some of whom were employed at the same plant!). Option number 1: leave! The truth is however, were it not for the raid, they’d still be happily working at Agri, making money, supporting their families back home, etc. and you would have to find another Jew on whom to satisfy your Commie bloodlust.

            • You can beg to differ all you want, but the history of trade unionism in the US started in coal mines and meat packing plants. Read ‘The Jungle’ by Upton Sinclair.

              I do like you blaming the KGB, the Cold War et al on one Yid. Can’t you do better than that? Commie bloodlust?

              Rubashkin brought a slave mentality to Iowa that was not seen there in a long time. And he got punished for it. Not because he was a Jew, but because he was a bad manager

            • I see. So now you are using the website for “Orthodox Jewery” as a platform for advertizing Communist Propaganda Lit. Here’s a quote on your favorite author:
              “In 1904 Sinclair spent seven weeks in disguise, working undercover in Chicago’s meatpacking plants to research his fictional exposé, The Jungle. When it appeared in 1906, it became a best-seller. With the income from The Jungle, Sinclair founded a utopian colony known as Helicon Hall in Englewood, New Jersey, and ran as a Socialist candidate for Congress. The colony burned down under suspicious circumstances within a year”
              Note: “Fictional”(!) – is this the source for your “history of the unions” treatise? Also note: “utopian colony” – read “collective farm” or “KolKhoz”. And finally: “Socialist Candidate” nu, need I say more?

              Sure, I’m gonna suggest this thing for my bookclub.
              Why are you trying so hard with citations etc. to prove my point that you are a communist agent working covertly to overthrow the elected government in this country and establish a workers’ paradise? The whole story with Rubashkin is but an episode in the long history of “class struggle” for you, isn’t it?
              Commie bloodlust – 100%.

            • I met lots of bad managers in my day, and I am yet to see any one of them raided by FBI, thrown in jail, etc..
              Of course in your ideal world a bad manager would be promptly shot in the head or at least sent to Siberia for sabotage and being an enemy of the people as used to happen in USSR between 1917 and 1953. Thank G-d that farsthinkiner regime is no more…

              Rubashkin himself said he was a nisht-azoy-goot manager. Nu?

      • You are absolutly correct. There is a transcript of the proceedings here http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?option=com_altcaster&task=siteviewaltcast&altcast_code=1939f99c7c> &task=siteviewaltcast&altcast_code=1939f99c7c.

        See the reporters fonal remarks about whether they were able to link Sholom RUbashkin to the underage workers “Nothing about that. The closest they got was one witness, a minor, who said he saw Sholom in another part of the plant. He said he couldn’t tell if Sholom could see him. “

        • See the reporters fonal remarks about whether they were able to link Sholom RUbashkin to the underage workers “Nothing about that. The closest they got was one witness, a minor, who said he saw Sholom in another part of the plant. He said he couldn’t tell if Sholom could see him. “

          Not after today’s damaging testimony. The supervisor told him many times the kids worked 100 hour weeks and nothing happened. The supervisor was under oath, along with everyone else.

          • Please, stop smoking that stuff – it’s bad for you. It aint the 60’s anymore, y’know.

            “Damaging testimony”??? That clown supervisor’s bubbe-maises today almost got the whole thing to crumble into a mistrial because he couldn’t help but get caught multiple times on bold-faced lies and irrelevant stories. The judge had to issue a stern warning to the persecution that if they continue with this circus the gantze proceeding will be over – b’ezras H’ soon.

          • Once again the prosecution can rely on gullible jews like you to deflect their awful behaviour.These guys are all being let off the hook for their testimony against SMR,do you really thing it’s anywhere reliable?!

      • 1)G-D created the animals so we can have use out of just like the animals get use out of bugs worms grass etc that G-D created for there survival.Maybe u should take the animals to court since there eating the smaller animals who can’t defend themselves?!
        2)These kids r worth there $ they forged there papers so they can make a couple of dollars if the work conditions were so bad they should have quit”your not a victom you’re a volunteer”

        • NONE OF YOU GET IT…….It is like beating your head against a wall. You think these illegal children who DONT SPEAK ENGLISH were able to FORGE, IN ENGLISH, documents they needed? No, they werent. The plant is charged with falsifying their papers….these children cant write in english, therefore, you crook/hero made sure their papers were handled for them. But yet he had no idea, right?? I have a bridge for sale, its like new…..

          • what motivation would he have to do that . why falsify documents and employ minors and pay them adult wages , might as well hire real adults for that money .

          • yes. I would personally pay a large sum to see you beat your head against the wall – maybe it will do your head some good.

            Now, here’s why I think you need to give your head a little beating against a wall. Not only are you inventing ridiculous things but you also fail to invent them so that they at least sound plausible. I speak / write fairly fluent English and I would still have a lot of trouble forging a greencard. On the other hand, there are 20,000,000 illegals in USA. It would be fair to say that many of them have trouble with English (written or oral). Yet all of them somehow are well supplied with fake ID’s.. How do they manage to obtain them? Of course Rubashkin has been producing all of these fake ID’s on his Xerox – that is in the breaks between davenning 2 hrs a day, learning, running a plant, helping everyone in sight and fighting off degenerate bums from peta, unions, the church, DA, FBI, you name it.

            How’s that head? And how much do you want for the bridge?

          • No Mr. Peta I was reffering to animal rites they have none except, that we r not allowed to torture them.But yes G-D created the world so the humans can benefit from it. Do u not go horseback riding or why r animals locked up in zoos and cages because they r animals and if left free to roam between us humans they will kill because they lack human skills therefore we call them ANIMALS.for centuries human have been raising cattle and so on its not something new.As far as the underaged minors they should never have kept there jobs if they were being mistreated its a free country they could have quit.

    4. I just can’t understand these children. They themselves wanted to work so they got false papers in order to work and they were hired. Now when they saw that their job is to work with chemicals they could’ve left the job. Who asked them to work there and then testify that it was harsh???
      Zolen zei gein oif lazuzel!!!

      • “no one forced the children to work they could have quit if they wanted to”

        No one forced SMR to steal millions and stash gold in his bedroom…he could have went straight if he wanted to.

        • Yes of course. Gold in his bedroom. You sound like a rational fellow.

          And he did try going “straight”. For reasons still unknown, the “authorities” chose to ignore those attempts…

        • SMR didn’t steal millions, in fact he didn’t steal! He lied, with the bank knowing that, so that they can make loads. Of money, which the were and would have continued to if not for the raid.

        • It has never been even suggested in court that SMR was ‘stashing gold in his bedroom’. Why in ‘your’ courtroom of the mind, you even entertain the thought, is a big question mark on the motive of your comments to say the least.

          • Please see the following quote from the associated press, and ANYWHERE else if you bothered to check:
            “Defense attorneys successfully argued that Rubashkin is not a flight risk and has strong ties to the community despite prosecutors’ fears that he would flee to Israel due to his Jewish heritage citing the Israeli ‘Law of Return’ policy, which grants expedited citizenship. “About a dozen rabbis from New York and across the country” were opposed to his being considered a flight risk. Federal agents said that they searched Rubashkin’s bedroom, they found “20-thousand dollars in cash and silver coins packed along with passports”. ok, so I mispoke….he had SILVER, seriously, my most sincere apologies for being so off trac with weather it was GOLD or SILVER he was stashing with tons of cash and passports. Thats how all innocent people act. So, by you saying “It has never been even suggested in court that SMR was ‘stashing gold in his bedroom'” makes YOU wrong. AGAIN.

    5. 1. Their Uncles and fathers who were working at Agri encouraged them to work at Agri.

      2. In Many Central and Latin American countries it is customary for minors of 14 years old to work and help out with the family, in fact any of these Minors used work in the fields of Guatemala.

    6. Why hit him when he is down? These DAs need noterioty at the expence of the most selfless hardworking family in the wourld. Shame on them!

    7. If someone applies for a job and presents documents stating their age and their immigration status, the employer is not allowed to challenge those documents! To challenge documents, even if the employer suspects they are bogus, is a violation of the worker’s civil rights!

      • Just curious where you get this from – that challenging possibly fraudulent documents is a violation of rights. Also, why is it a challenge to ask for additional – i.e. more than one document?

        • Why should someone do that? There is no obligation to do so. And the fact is that employers have been sued for racial discrimination, because they challenged hispanic workers’ documents while not challenging those of white workers (as if they were equally likely to be illegal!)

          • When you say “fact is that employers have been sued for racial discrimination, because they challenged hispanic workers’ documents while not challenging those of white workers” can you please cite a case or source – that is what I was asking about. And when you send the cite, can you please include whether these other factual companies were only sued or did they actually have to pay for asking for additional documents? Also, would that be relevant here if no “white” workers ever applied for jobs? I am not trying to be sarcastic I am truly trying to understand the logic behind this argument. especially since we talking here about age related documents in the case where the person looks rather young. Ever notice the signs in certain convenience stores saying that if you look like youmight be under 30 you will be required to show id when buying alcohol or cigarettes? If a store owner thinks a person looks really young and the document shows a borderline age could they be sued for asking for a second document?

    8. These ppl were escorted and prompted by the prosecutors. Their evidence is so tainted that it would not be accepted by a chelm tribunal.
      There is a story where they found one of the employees to be underaged and immediately fired her. There is a story of the federal mole that was sent home a few times as he came with out lehal papers. There is a very fine line between 16 and 18. specifically with girls when they wear makeup. I hope the jury can see through this.
      In terms of harsh chemicals – it is notmal in factories to use bleach and acid. These kids make it sound luke they were using agent orange.
      And last – where is the gov’ts responsibility for knowingly letting them stay in the country?

    9. He said he began work at 4 a.m. and would work 12 hours or more. When asked when he didn’t complain about the ill-effects from the chemicals he used, he said, “If I told them, they wouldn’t listen.”
      If I told them……but they didn’t so how dare them say they kept their mouth shut when they didn’t even give mr Rubashkin a chance. It’s more incriminating if you tell a jury i complained but they didn’t listen. to get up there and say well they wouldn’t have listend, really? how did this worker know if they never complained?

      Rubashkin would pay for workers time of absence due to losing a parent which is not required by law and Rubashkin even paid for peoples funerals which no CEO in Amaerica has ever done. who is the monster here? i say the feds are disgustingly anti semitic with the way they are presenting their entire case.

      • You are claiming he gave the illgeal child immigrants family leave and paid for their families funerals? You are a LIAR….I am sure he did that for every Jew in the world….but how ’bout the people below him who he abused?? Lets see all the wonderful things he did for THEM. You liar.

    10. Can Mr Ordonez bring medical records for those injuries! I am sure if people were so injured there must be logs at the local cinic. I hope thay tje aibeshter gives the defense a lof of chochma

    11. The connotation is that the worker had to touch the dry ice. How misleading. What is tje big deal of sticking meat with a thermometer? How else can you tell if the meat it cold enough to keep fresh?

    12. SMR did not go to Central America looking for these workers. They came to the USA illegally (sin #1) They falsified documents to get hired(sin#2). So who should be prosecuted??? Certainly NOT Mr. Rubashkin – he did NOTHING wrong. The illegals should be prosecuted along with the judges etc.

    13. here is my question: if indeed the defense is right that according to iowa law smr could not be convicted of any child labor violations unless it is proven beyond dought that smr knew that they were minors and willfuly employed them , shouldn’t it follow that the next step in the trial should be the burden of the goverment to provide evidence of knowledge and intent on the part of smr . since the defence is not denying that these minors worked at the plant , because in absence of such proof there is no case against smr at all . so why would the defense let the jury listen to 31 minors crying about the harsh conditions of their employment which is basicaly a victim impact statement when they have not yet established that they have a criminal here ? letting the jury listen to all these sob stories could influence the jury that smr is a monster even if he would not be a criminal in the eyes of the law .

    14. פוי פוי פוי!!! Shame on you this is how you guys talk when you see a Brother in such big צרות I can’t believe this, if I wouldn’t see it I would definitely not believe it… פוי פוי פוי!!!

      • No phew in you because we are yidden and just because you need to eat more meat doesn’t mean we can mistreat others. You wouldn’t want your yoily and lipa to work in those conditions. It’s high time we deal with the yashrus of us stepping all over the goyim for our own benefit. Examples : goytas that work scrubbing floors on their hands and knees and caretakers who take care of yiddishe elderly….let’s be careful what we sow. Right now yes we are on top feels good but we were immigrants once too. We should make a kiddush hashem. Whatever rubashkin did sure as heck wasn’t a kiddush hashem, sorry. I’m not saying that he deserves 25 years, but at least the condemnation for his actions and mistreatment of others in the name of the holy cause of us having kosher meat, where is it?

        • Would you care to say which evodence points to abuse? I heard nothing other than ammonia and bleach, and taking the temp of the meat. Does not sound like abuse to me.

        • Did you check out the plant? Have you visited to confirm what you are saying? Rubashkin was a great boss who treated his employees very well! Check your facts before you attack a fellow yid! Shame on you!

    15. Look what these guys are doing to the mexicans all ages in arisona where is the big mercy what America has?? Thry had a regular cleaning job with chmicals what we all using and also our children below 18 can help us clean!! Just trying to play emotions

    16. Ich farshtei nisht ein zach. Everyone including the president of the United States are now complaining that the new law in Arizona which forces illegal workers to show their documentation is racial profiling. Sholom M Rubashkins HR department made sure their employees had proper legal documents, yet are in trouble for having illegal and underage workers because they should have assumed they were either false or stolen documents! Is that not racial profiling! Mr. President how come I don’t hear you now defending Rubashkin? Where are all of you Liberals who are attacking the new law in Arizona? What type of double standard is going on? These Liberals are oxymoronic by their very nature and essence, and should be held accountable for it!

      • You have a very good point, and you should send the White House and Judge Read a letter to this effect. Please don’t forget it’s really important.

    17. :”Mendoza began crying while testifying about the raid and the arrest of her boyfriend and other workers. “
      So SMR is to blame for the raid too?! If they would have just left the guy alone, NOBODY (Banks, workers, Postville residents etc.) would be crying today!! What a twisted system!!! Sodom at it’s best!!!!!!!!!

      • They couldn’t resolve the problem it they would have trough them out they would be charged for racial profiling remember they wanted to fire illegal immigrant employee in first AV location who joined the union the court ruled out that they are not allowed it belongs to the feds to take action so this is USA

      • Because the workers admitted their true age to the reporter; do you think they would also admit it to their bosses, so they could get fired?! I’m sure Agri knew that among all its workers there were bound to be many illegal, and a few underaged. But how were they to know which ones? More to the point, without proof about any individual they had no obligation to fire anyone, so why should they? What kind of cruel person fires a good worker when he doesn’t have to, just because he suspects that some law somewhere might be being broken?

        • Agri placed ads in the local Guatemala newspaper in Spanish that they were hiring. Agri knew the residents of this town were not Americans and did not have proper working papers, yet the company’s main source of workers were from this very poor community. Agri target these people. Shanda

          • Targeted like in dragging them off in chains or is offering a job to poor people a shanda? You most probably believe the new law in Arizona is a shanda as well, so where is the shanda?

          • Target the poor community?? What are you on, comrade? Aren’t the Bolsheviks supposed to be ideologically against indulging in hallucinogens?

            Since when is placing wanted adds in a newspaper a crime or an invitation to commit a crime, cross the border illegally and get employment using forged documents? Agri knew… Oy vey. 20 million illegals in the States and it’s all Rubashkin’s fault. Och un vey on us – it’s “proletariat of all countries, unite!” all over again. When will Yidden learn already? Look, Lenin – dead, Stalin – dead, Brezhnev – dead, Mao – dead, Castro – dead (well, almost) and all their ideals and grand designs – definitely dead. Enough of this mishigas already, find a new getchke to worship…

            Better yet, tayere Yid, please and please – do tshuvoh, drop the sinas chinom, ess a shtick’l koshern kug’l and come back to your People. We are all waiting to embrace you and you know you will come back one day anyway. Why delay?

          • Did “Agri” state in the ads …that they placed in the local Guatemala newspaper in Spanish…. that they’re looking for underage workers, or, that they prefer, or (DO) welcome underage workers????!!!! We’re (Yes, WE. Because I feel the pain of my brother, or any person, who is being railroaded and so-called Smart and Fair people are ready to “Hang him from the next tree”. (ch”v.) Lucky that you’re not the Judge or the Prosecutor. (The wishful executioner, maybe!) On the other hand, maybe you should. And then we would see who is the object of Shanda!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Are you saying that if agri already has a spanish staff and management that they are working with, they should not target them? Are you OK or just a self proclaimed racist? BTW in that area most blue collar workers are hispanic.

          • What is your point? Did the advertisement state “illegals and under age employees wanted” it makes me sick to my stomach when I see people say things that are totally unconnected to the trial and by far are evidence.

      • That the company hired a labor lawyer, and the company did major changes. The state refused to work with the conpany and tell them which employees were underage.

    18. Some of the comments on this site from ostensibly frum people, are astonishing and incredible. Why are the victims being blamed in this case? Alien minors who have no legal rights and no money, should not be exploited physically or psychologically by employers, whether the employers are gentile or yehudim. Does anybody honestly believe that the management of Agriprocessors did not know what was occurring? When I studied Physics, the teacher always taught us that “for every action, there is a reaction”. Now, those responsible for this sordid affair will ultimately pay the price. I have no sympathy for the ex-management of Agriprocessors. Let us stop screaming “anti-semitism”, and trying to use the excuse of “goyim picking on us”. According to Halacha, we have a greater obligation to obey the laws of the country that we live in. In this case, it doesn’t seem to have occurred.

      • The question here is what u miss! Was SMR responsible for hiring underage people ? These people all admitted that they obtained “on their own” forged SS documentts.
        Shouls SMR have instituted policies that were more stringent ? perhaps ? but that does not make him guilt personally if the HUman Resource person was found “not guilty”.
        Why has no one commented on this here?? Did he imprison them? were there any work violations Agri did not correct? This is all irrelevant to the fraud trial as u try to lump all this?
        50% of all nmortgage applications on properties in the US were found to be untrue ? why aren’t we suing all these homeowners or FHA or Fannie MAY who never looked??
        Didn’t u see a banker who embezzelled and gambled away $25,000,000.00 received a ONE year sentence while the DA asked for life for SMR and the amjority of the same $26,000,000.00
        was “pristine money”? That is the issue the anti semitism in this case not only the crime (which is chillul Hashem).

        • Clearly you haven’t read the transcript from the trial yesterday and today. Because you’re VERY far off about the issue of documents. Luckily for all of us, you’re not on the jury. People who hopefully care about the facts are on the jury.

    19. Imagine if these underage would be testifying now that they “discriminated” by turning them away and not giving them a job when they legally applied for just wait the D A may try to paint a smr as a …. Abuser
      And then show the world how right he is and how criminal smr and all the people he belongs to are. Hoyy

    20. These kids were desperate for work, that’s why they gave in false papers. No one stopped them from quitting if they didn’t like the job. They probably were happy they could find jobs at all. They’re back stabbers. You’re good to someone and he stabs you in the back. If there never would have been a raid, these workers would have gladly stayed on, working there to earn as much money as they could. Now that the tables are turned they’re trying to get something out of this case because they lost their jobs. What a nerve, what low lives!

    21. The entire article is slanted, as is the trial and this whole unfortunate affair. The (news) report states that Ms. Mendoza (The underage worker) started crying “While Testifying”. One gets the impression that she became emotional and cried when the memories of the kind of hard and dangerous work she performed at the plant came back to her. But when we read on further the report states that she cried “Because “Her Boyfriend Was Arrested”. What has that got to do with the purpose of her testimony and how is Sholom Rubashkin responsible for that?!

    22. Wow, after reading all the comments on this blog all I can say is WOW, you guys would’ve made great trial lawyers, too bad most of you don’t go to law school, you could’ve all been the next Johnny Cochrans.

    23. because one can take advantage does not mean he should.

      The Torah and the gemarah speak out how to treat workers and not to take advantage of them.

      Amazing how many people on this board sometimes go overboard with chumrahs bein adom lamokom, but seek out every heter or lame excuse when it comes to bein adom lechavara.

      strange, where did you learn than?

      • Re. Odom l’chaveiro – There is an individual here who is in the category of “Odom” – R’ Sholem Mordche. I’ll give you that. But who is playing the part of the “chaveiro”, in your opinion? Guatemalan illegals? Hardly. Peta? Don’t think so. The Feds? highly unlikely. The galach from the Postville St. Molestor church, maybe? Heck – no! So, who’s the “chaveiro”? Do tell.

        • “So, who’s the “chaveiro”? Do tell.”

          There is no חבירו in this case, as long as you consider the Guatemalan illegals not to be human beings. Some will say anything to keep the delusion alive!

          • Hilarious. The same accusation was brought by the Russians and their church in the Beilis trial. Famous story. They accused the whole Jewish people of not counting non-Jews as “humans” because they discovered that the term “Odom” in Toiroh only refers to a Jew. Look it up – I am sure it will be an enlightening experience, especially when you learn how this accusation was thoroughly destroyed by the defense. History repeats itself.

            I am not for a second suggesting they are not human beings Ch’’v – where did you find that? Or are you to bewhisky-ed to be able to read properly? Our Toiras Emes says that they are not called “chaveiro”, gendikt. You have a problem with that? Complain to the Author.

            Doesn’t make these people better or worse ch”v. And doesn’t mean they are not entitled to dignity, compassion etc.. All it means that when we talk about “Odom L’chaveiro” unless you are a new-age, reformed/reformulated or otherwise deranged individual you will not apply that principle in this case.

            • “Or are you to bewhisky-ed to be able to read properly?”

              As always, individuals like you must resort to personal insults! Did my comment upset you that much? Awwww……..

              In any event, there is little point in any exchange of ideas with an עם הארץ דאורייתא
              such as yourself. Heretofore, you are denied any access to my person.

            • And calling someone an am hooretz is not an insult that one resorts to when lacking a real argument?? Just checking – not exchanging ideas, chas v’sholem. At least I insinuated (and I admit it was in bad taste) that there was a perfectly good reason behind your rather incoherent points: namely that you were under influence of mashke. And if you were given a chance to have a good nap you would sound more reasonable. You on the other hand have condemned me to amhoortzus forever…Now, that hurts, y’know.

              In any case, I see now that I hurt feelings with my remarks and I hereby ask mechilah. I do not request restoration of access to your person. I’ll get by somehow. Furthermore, I don’t mind that you didn’t address any of my points – I’m pretty tired of this.

              Peace.

      • First of all, I doubt you ever opened a hebrew book in your life (based on the way you write). Secondly, it is obvious that there were forged docs. But it seems to me that there is and was no way for Mr Rubashkin to know that. Thirdly where do you see abuse. I know what bleach is, and I know what ammonia is. (My wife uses them all and so do I) am I an abusive husband for allowing my wife to use those “harsh chemicals” or are their parents abusive for letting them work? Why isn’t the govt after the abusive parents after all there are so many.

    24. It is truly telling that those who blame Rubashkin for hiring minors do not give any thought of blaming the parents who schlepped them on a dangerous, potentially life threatening journey to America all the while knowing they and their children are breaking the American law. And instead of packing them off to school, they are then sent to work. Where is your blame for the parents? Why do you blame Rubashkin?

      • How quickly they forget. Our grandparents and great-grandparents came here and shlepped our parents and grandparents, and some of the kids had to work because there weren’t laws to protect them. Remember the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire? Do we blame the young women who died, or their parents, for working in a situation where the bosses risked their lives? Or do we blame the bosses that took advantage of them and locked the doors so they perished in the fire?

        Way to blame the victim. When I’ve heard non-Jews do that about Jews I get furious. It’s even uglier when Jews do it. You and your children should never know the poverty and desperation suffered by these people.

        • Yes. We tend forget rather quickly. Especially if that tragic story has absolutely no relevance or similarity to what is being discussed here…

          But back to your point: are you suggesting that poor and desperate people should not be hired at all (thereby rendering them even more poor and desperate)? Would that make you less furious?

          Now, I personally don’t blame the victim, G-d forbid. I just happen to believe there is no victim here at all. Well except for Rubashkin who has been targeted for the most vicious coordinated litigation campaign in US history. The Guatemalan workers, “under-aged” included, were also dealt with unreasonable / unnecessary brutality **by the Feds** – but once you break the law you kinda have to expect that, am I right?

            • Yes especially if one keeps imagining stuff it becomes pretty tough. So now they’re 13-year olds? In a couple of days we’d be talking about pre-school kids?

              Imagine a 13-yr old with a *boyfriend* and probably her own children already with fake IDs, illegal border crossing etc.. Looks like you need a good break in a sanitarium to keep your nerves in check – you don’t need to be on that jury.

    25. To: Mr. Ich Shayim Zich Oych Nisht #1- Again, you (kindly note how the word “you” is correctly spelled-it is not spelled “u”) have missed the point entirely. I don’t care if a banker has stolen $100,000,000 and receives a year’s probation. Such abhorrent conduct by goyim does not mitigate the facts of this case. Also, if people wish to lie on their federal income and state tax returns, and lie on their mortgage applications, they will have to answer for their illegal conduct. If anyone believes that not one member of the Management of Agriprocessors did not know that many of their employees were underage and undocumented, then they were daydreaming. Also, the trial in an Iowa state criminal court stands on its own merits, regardless of the fraud trial in the federal district court. The latter trial was not undertaken to bolster the federal case. Perhaps, you should take some courses in business law, and business ethics, in an effort to understand the points of both trials. Today, it appears that nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions any longer.

      • Firstly many people use the U instead of you on the WEB. I guess it is your severe meticulous nature to point out this irrelevancy to the issue at hand or your chronic cynicism.
        Nowhere do I state that Rubashkin is not guilty. But many former US Atty Generals signed a letter criticizing the conduct of the DA in this issue of requested sentencing. The denial of bail and other issues are quite questionable decisions and motives.
        You did not answer why the Human resource supervisor was found NOT GUILTY. I myself recently had a 100% proper claim on someone and the judge ruled against me because I later found out that the judge and the opposing atty knew each other and I had to refile the exact same case and won eventually.
        I have been involved in many different litigious issues, and all that I am saying is that the only question is whether SMR knew or should have known ? U have already decide for the jury and u are not even there. I have only judged by the merits of what the article states.!
        Every person is presumed innocent under the law

      • What is your point. We know workers at agri knew there were underage employees. They admitted to it. This is a trial against Mr Rubashkin, who claims that he was unaware. So far no hard evidence came up. There are yearbooks. People close to 18. Ppl who worked with chemicals. Just remember kol hapoisel bemumoi posel. Of course there is law, but the evidence is extremely weak.

    26. I cry after reading the harsh words used to express our opinions here on this post and most others.

      Why is it necessary to use such words like ” hit your head against a wall” or “your such a shoteh” for example.

      please express your ideas & opinions with more thought, not hurt.
      I bet if we spent 10 more seconds before hitting the “Post Comment” button, we could reduce are hurtful words by at least 50%.

      many people read these posts. they are not saying nice things about the language from one ” brother to another brother”. Criticize, yes. but hurtful speech, no. It really reduces the strength of your message, and causes pain to the heart of your community.

      we can do better, don’t you think?

      • I agree and since I have posted some of the harsh comments (in retrospect) here myself I would like to apologize to everyone personally.

        Now, I can only suggest that the reason why the tone of this discussion has gotten to such a low level is that both sides of the debate are touching on core issues that are of fundamental importance to us as Jews.

        One side argues in favor of a Jew, our flesh and blood, who is going through tremendous suffering. Whether or not he is at fault is not the issue. A Jew is in pain and we can’t remain silent. Not to mention that: continued attacks on him *by Jews* are plain wrong. The other side argues (and I’m really trying to be diplomatic here) that we can’t condone improper behavior by any Jew let alone a frum Jew. Now, to stress the argument one side accuses the other of being callous and cruel to a fellow Jew. The other side accuses the first side of cover up of alleged cruelty to non-Jews.

        Given this, could I propose a settlement? Torah forbids loshon horo – that we all agree on. So, can we please call for a moratorium on negative comments on Rubashkin for the time being? He has enough to contend with, don’t you think?

    27. these minors were threatened to testify against him or else… in addition the prosecution knew about this way before the raid but did nothing to “protect” these minors cuz they have one goal only…to hurt rubashkin- ask any of these illegals- the raid destroyed their life- they were quite happy before.

    28. I read what was going on and the testimony from witnesses made it perfectly clear that SMR was involved in some very bad things that were done to these poor kids.

      Creepiest thing – one kid said he was charged for his own safety equipment and the cleaning of his smock. They took it out of his salary. When a chemical splashed on his mouth and his lip swelled up, they didn’t even get him help.

      An ugly chapter in modern Jewish history.

      • Why do you call this “a good day” if you don’t mind me asking. Are you happy that this is an “ugly chapter” in our history? Or you are rejoicing at the fact that the kid’s lip swelled up? Or is this a hockey game for you and you’re rejoicing that your team is winning?

        These are the things that make you happy? I really, truly feel tremendous rachmonus on you and wish I could help in any way. The only thing I can do remotely is to ask you to please not delay and get your tfill’n checked by a qualified soifer. Something is really wrong with you, R”L.

      • Once again u sound like the Hechsher tzedek rabbi ! Rubashkin is charged here only with “hiring minors.” The plant was continuously inspected nad not caring about a clients swollen lip is not something SMR should stand trial for or asking the emplyees to pay for their own equipment. They have a choice to leave. So who says he is responsible for this or who says being a nasty guy is a criminal offense. It does not mean sanyone should condone this behavior but those are not criminal offenses. No one chained them to stay. So SMR is not a mentsch that doesn’t make him a criminal. My ex-wife did worse to me so we divoreced! The prosecutors seem to be playing on the sympathy of the jury

        • Rubashkin advertised in their Guatemalan village and they paid $6000 or more to come up to Postville. They owed the money. What did you want them to do — open dental practices? You have no idea of the reality of where they came from and why they so desperately needed the money.

          I don’t know what your ex-wife did to you when she divorced you, but I know what she did after: Jumped for joy and danced that she was rid of you.

          • U are not addressing anything i said but stating your own facts. SMR is not being charged with anything here except the hiring of minors and violating underage labor laws and that is what I addressed . The rest is conjecture on your part and they could go anywhere in US like 12,000,000 other illegals.. Your classless other comment attacking me personally, is undeserving of a response as fortunately she has remarried for many years and has a wonderful new large family b’h and I wished her well and continue to do so including her husband and 8 children.

      • Here’s a *real* story. When I came to Canada from Russia some 20 yrs ago, the very first job I could get was Burger King – a respected company. I was 18 then but the kids working there were 16(hmm…) and up. The minimum age for Burger King is 16 – you can check that on their website, they don’t hide it. The training consisted of a short video (hmm…) On my first day I had to prepare “sanitizer” – a chlorine (!) solution (hmm…) Then I spent the next 6 hrs next to a hot broiler – I could barely breathe and caughed for days. A couple of weeks later someone spilled boiling fryer oil on my hand – I thought my hand would fall off. The manager laughed.. I spent the next 4 wks at home recovering. No workers’ comp or pay at all. 16-year olds worked late night shifts alongside me (8 pm to 6 am). Once in a while guns went off in the lobby – B”H no-one got shot, but one kid almost got stubbed. I saw these kids get injured pretty badly and with regularity. This is one of the best BK stores in Canada with excellent safety record. I quit after a year (for a place that turned out even worse..) and I actually had real work papers.
        Zug mir, can I sue Rubashkin for all a’this?

        • By trying to make a point, all you did was show inept you are. 16 is the legal working age in America, if you get working papers thru your high school. So what is the HHMMM about? Your hero hired 12-13 years old. strike one. Also, you worked 6 hours? Your hero had the minors working 12 hour days. strike two. You complian they wroked 10 hour shifts with no overtime? If you werent lying, yes, you COULD sue for that AS LONG AS IT WAS MORE THAN A 40 HOUR WORK WEEK, which Id bet anything it WASNT as they usually work 2-3 days a week, so, strike three. Talking of guns going off in the lobby has NOTHING to do with anything, except pointing out the ghetto you live in.

          • Inept – right. Way to show compassion to a poor immigrant. Or is it because the immigrant happens to be Jew? Anyway, thanks for the warmth. The ghetto btw was downtown Montreal – smack in the middle. Corner of Crescent and S. Catherine. But you seem so well informed. Oy abi gezund.

            • “Way to show compassion to a poor immigrant”
              You are trying to make a joke, right?? If you were so compassionate for immigrants, where is your heart for the minors that SMR abused?? Oh, thats right….only a Jewish immigrant is ok, but those Spaniards are just lucky to have been in SMR’s presence, right? You hypo-crite. …I was speaking to that poster as a man, commenting on what he wrote….his citizenship is no concern of mine….didnt enter my mind, funny though,FIRST thing you thought of…..wait, Im wrong….first you pointed out he is Jew, than an immogrant, because all it boils down to for YOU is Jewery, right??

            • I think you need as they say in the ghetto a “chill pill” or at the very least break your Prozacs in half I’m not trying to make a joke – the recipient must have some rudimental sense of humor otherwise it’s a futile exercise. Now, **you** are the hypocrite here. I neither said nor hinted that I somehow don’t feel for the poor immigrants who had it tough in a new country. On the contrary, I very much do. I, as opposed to you, have actually gone through this myself. All I said was that they are not alone and there’s not always Rubashkin you can blame for this.
              Spare us the bleeding-heart nonsense. The largest employers of 16-yr olds in US are the treife fast food chains. These 16-yr olds i.e. “the crew” perform most unhealthy, exhausting, dirty, and dangerous chores. Cleaning toilets is one of the preferred assignments. They work night shifts and double / triple shifts – yes they are paid for that, but aren’t they children? Where is the outrage? Did you protest? Your insistence on painting Rubashkin into some sort of a monster is well,… how can I put that nicely – the stupidest most outrageous and far from reality mishugas I have ever heard.

            • You are right – that’s all it boils down to us. And we have reasons for that and I want waste precious bytes on explaining this to you. But let me ask you a question: while you are here on this site commenting away, don’t you have some cross-burnin’ or n-word-lynchin’ to go to, or is this done only at night when nobody can catch you chicken-dreks? you two-bit, sheigetz, shave-head rabbit-eating coward. I wish I could meet you and show you in practice what my community can do to you. Go crawl back into the hole your came from, ss wannabe.

            • If it wasnt for throwing out SS and Nazi and the Holocaust……you wouldnt be able to speak, would you? Me not agreeing with supporting an UNDENIABLE criminal, and feeling for the children that were abused, makes me part of the SS? You are so sheltered I have pity for you. SMR knowingly commited crimes, you voice support, I dont….thats what makes the world go ’round……but instead of having actaul facts to argue, you cry he is innocent and a great guy JUST because he is a Yid and gave you cheat meat. That is a COP OUT and you fight like a girl. Where are your facts, where is your argument?? YOU DONT HAVE ONE, AND THAT MAKES ME A NAZI???? You’re nuts. You dont have to waste ‘precious bytes’ explaining YOU biggoted ways to me(support a fellow Jew at any cost, REGARDLESS of what havoc and pain they have caused) , and I wont waste my precious time explaing my heritage and families religiong to you. I live in America, and as the wonderful Dr. king stated, I judge people on the contact of their character……period. Can you say that?? Absolutely not.

            • No that doesn’t make you a nazi. Lots of people here don’t share my views and I didn’t identify them as nazis. What makes you a nazi is your perverted hate-filled propaganda that you spew on this site. Accusations directed at my “community” that somehow we Jews are sticking up to that monster Rubashkin only because he’s a Jew. And the fact that we may see clear gross injustices in this case is of no relevance. Why was he denied bail? Why life sentence for white-color first offense crimes? Why beatings in jail? Why is he being denigrated in prison? Yeah, sure we only support him because he’s Jewish.
              *You* target him and us because we are Jews and for no other reason whatsoever. Tell me, are you as active on the cath. priests raping minors front (pick a country – you’ll find at least a dozen)? Or slave-labor factories in China? So you choose to focus all your hate on us Jews. This makes you a Nazi.. well along with your brown shirt, your waffen-SS fetish and KKK hood.

              BTW. Dr. King said “contENT of his character” not “contact”.. what a dumb illiterate nazi.

            • “I wish I could meet you and show you in practice what my community can do to you.”
              Is that a threat of physical violance? If you are allowed to threaten me, I am allowed to realisticly respond: What are you going to do? Throw a rock at me or have your paid Goys try to hit me? And who eats rabbits? I dont even eat meat…..is that supposed to be an insult? How old are you?? I never attacked anyone in my posts…you call me a Nazi and then try to act like a man (not fooling anyone) with physical violance. You claim I should go back to my hole? You acting like an animal is just digging your deeper.

            • Sorry, I meant to say “pig-eater”.
              Now, regarding what I am going to do.. etc. Well as you may notice if you snap out of your day-dreaming about the 3rd Reich for a second we both find ourselves in the world of the Internet. There is not much I can do – I can only *wish*.. I can also perhaps suggest that you get thorough mental treatment, followed by cultural awareness seminars where they could explain to you how to properly talk to people of other cultures, how to avoid stereotyping, racial slurs etc.. Probably going back to grade 4 would also be a good idea.

    29. Lots of people who did terrible things didn’t realize their life’s dreams. So what? If he was such a gentle soul, it wouldn’t matter if he went into teaching or shlichus or running a factory — the treatment of people would be humane. The fact that he ran such a horrible factory tells me I wouldn’t want him teaching my kids or teaching people in far-off places about Judaism. His kind of Judaism isn’t what should be spread around the world.

      Especially ironic is the teaching thing. Teaching kids? When this is a man who thinks it’s okay if they lose fingers or handle dangerous chemicals and don’t need to be in school? Not my idea of a teacher.

      • Sorry, what exactly is your point? And do you have one? Or are you just sharing your general take on life? Do you have anything constructive to say today at all?

        You hate this Jew with a passion – we get it. Convicting him of imaginary crimes even before the court did – that’s something you’ll need to answer for when you come before the Kisei Hakovoid, may you live until 120. What’s next?

      • I see my error now. Expecting a little intellectual honesty was wishfull thinking on my part…

        So now we have a mind-reader in our midst. Gevaldik! You know what the man *thinks* – really? Can you guess what I’m thinking right now? Are you for real?

        And at every turn the “kids” get younger, the “dangerous chemicals” more dangerous and the imaginary potential injuries more gruesome and more imaginative. Before long we will hear about toddlers handling enriched uranium with hands and legs cut-off bleeding and crying out for help with this mean Jew – Sholom Mordche standing over them with bloody hands and laughing, laughing… H’ yishmereinu…

      • If those KIDS would NOT have worked at Agri, they would have worked elsewhere. They were NOT school kids. They could have had FREE schooling – but that’s NOT why they ILLEGALLY came to the US. They wanted to WORK! You think they could have become doctors and lawyers??? They were SHLEPPERS and worked as such. Why are you making such MARTYRS out of them??? Nobody SHLEPPED (dragged) them to come work here? They even got paid minimum wages. So what did SMR do wrong? When your (illegal) cleaning lady has to scrub the toilet are you doing something wrong????

      • Nu, I am sure it’s nothing as serious as that. He’s a heilige Yid mit a gute hartz and anyone can get posule tfill’n. That’s why we need to check tfillin and mezuzois often. The problem stems from that – no doubt. Happens all the time – oy, I could tell you stories…

        Once the problem is fixed, I’m sure he’ll get back on track in a gute oifen, b’ezras H’.
        b’surois toivois.

    30. Well I’ve been very pro SMR until now. But to read stuff like him being an achzor to employees , it doesn’t matter to me big or small jew or non jew. This I cannot swallow.I still hope most of this stuff is lies. And other yiddishe employers should take notes. DON’T abuse your employees! Pay them decently , give them a pat on the back (it doesn’t cost money) if an employee sick or someone in their family , show some concern. Employers read this: If you ever get into trouble with the law , if you were nice to your workers, they will hopefully help you , if you are a dog ,they DEFINETLY will not, and chances are THEY WILL RAT YOU OUT! And to say that employees have a choice to work elsewhere is a nice saying but most workers need the money to put bread on the table. Employess: work honestly , its not that easy for your boss to make a buck!!

      • This is not about Mussar of how to treat employees . U are NOt g-ds farzorger. This is only about Rubashkins knowing whether the kids were minors and the processes in place.
        I always treated every person equally in my factory and was caring to all their needs but I did so voluntarily. You cannot tell or run other peoples lives. How he treated these workers is none of our business regardless of how we feel. His guilt is only on the indictmment not wHAT THESE PEOPLE (WHO HAVE BEEN TAUGHT “ALL THE jEWS HAVE MONEY AND ARE CHEAP_TRUST ME FROM EXPERIENCE WITH MY WELL TREATED EMPLOYEES) feel they were mistreated as that is not the issue here. Only the charges.

      • Nice sentiment and I would agree entirely if it wasn’t for the fact that in this case, no matter how nice SMR was to the workers (and according to many, he was more than nice and beyond ‘the call of duty’), when Feds put the illegals against the wall they were ready to rat out their own mothers and denounce all the getchkes they worship. I can’t blame them – they apparently had everything to lose and cooperating with the government in framing the boss was one of the better options (definitely beats jail time, being separated from your family etc.). This seems to what have happened here.

      • Thank you. Arbeit’s Arbiter. But; Ver Hut dir Gefreygt?! Du bizst zayer a Gutter (Both, the Yiddish and English translation.) The Illegal, Underage, workers and their Galach (That ugly creature) thank You. ……Until, you find yourself on the inner side of a jail cell and the defendant’s table, on the receiving end of a unanimous Jury Verdict. And I thank you, too!!!

      • I many times have seen Mr Rubashkin take care of a gebtile better that the jew. Once wheb one of the workers was not feeling good, he gave an employee some money (a nice amount) and told him to take the rest of the day off. When the worker told him (in broken english) that he’s pay him back as soon as he wsa able. He was told not to worry about the money, and rather worry that hw take care of himself.

        • how is that wonderful? If it was a legal adult employee, he would have had healthcare and sick leave…..so this monster gave the child he was milking for over a hundred hours a week a few bucks and let him go home sick……wow, can he be considered for saint hood? Because he really is a super caring soul. And it was a nice amount? how much is nice? two hundred thousand he took from the plant to pay credit cards seems nice….twenty grand in jewelry is also a nice amount, but the nicest amout would be the three hunndred thousand for home renovations…..so, Personally Saw, how nice was the immigrants amout??

          • What I read was a guy saying he was fired if he missed three days. Others were injured on the job and the management did nothing. They had to pay for some of their own safety gear and to clean their uniforms. This place was like something out of Dickens.

            While they were living through a nightmare, Mr. and Mrs. R. were picking out silver.

    31. Please remember the issue in this case is if SMR had personal knowledge and approved of the underage workers. Further the circumstances described are shocking no doubt but was Agriprocessors that much different than any other slaughterhouse and packing plant?
      The minors came to Agri for work they were not sought out. There does not seem to be any special obligation to examine ID or Birth Certificates to verify their veracity. Especially when some of these minors were 15,16,17 which is not all that distinguishable from an 18 yr. old.

      Again the issue is did SMR agree to and aprooved the hiring of underage workers and nothing more.

      And before heaping vitriol consider if the conditions at Agri were all that diffrent
      Who is to say this prosecution is designed to vilify SMR more than anything else.

      • How stupid are you? There is no way to check? Maybe if you dont know how to read, write, speak or use a computer or a telephone…..maybe then there is no way to check….you must be extremly gullable to allow these words out of your mouth.

    32. SMR was every employee’s dream; in fact he was kind and generous with them which is why he had so many illegals there…yes, word of mouth…if it was really so horrendous do u honestly think it would become sooo popular? but…when these people are threatened to be punished or cooperate…they obviously chose against smr, and are now testifying against him to save themselves jail time. but if yu would have spoken to them a day before the raid, you’d have gotten a pleasnt, happy report. in fact, their lives have been wrecked from the raid.

    33. Do you know what the term chilul hashem means? Look in the mirror and you shall see. Mr rubashkin has been accused. The evidence in both trials does not point to SMR knowingly breaking laws.

      • “Do you know what the term chilul hashem means? Look in the mirror and you shall see.”

        How impressive! Yet, another personal insult from the disconnected, deluded, and very mean spirited. Is that the best you can do, fella? So, my words upset you too? Awwww…..

        “The evidence in both trials does not point to SMR knowingly breaking laws.”

        Of course, the 80 something federal counts of bank fraud, for which he was convicted, mean nothing to anyone as delusional as this one.

      • How incredible that you all are willing to suspend belief in reality to prove the entire outside world and the whole United States government and legal system are conspiring to discredit one honest man, one of the Lamed Vov, no less.

        And let’s blame children for child labor or hard, if not dangerous conditions, because after all, it’s the children’s own fault to be working a factory, they had free choice. Not an ounce of pity for the children, because that MIGHT turn out to besmirch smr. So let’s blame these children for their own plight.

        And of course, smr did not admit to breaking any laws, right? This is all about a completely innocent man.

        I know, I know, since I disagree with your opinion that there is no evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing, I must have now lost my Jewish status, and I MUST be a goy. I know the drill.

        I belive smr does not deserve the sentence they are fighting to give him. I would be happy if they released him today. But how long will you continue with the charade that this man is a malach who did nothing wrong? He made some mistakes and made some bad choices, but they should not ruin his life. However, you idiots think he should be Moshiach.

        • It’s not my place to say who’s a goy and who’s not. Afterall we all have a “little goy” inside of us and my “goy” is likely bigger than yours. Your post however appears to have been written by your “goy”. Were you to allow your “Yid” to comment, it would have come out very differently. First, you would probably not refer to your fellow Jews as “idiots”. Second, *even* if all the damning comments on SMR are 100% true and all the positive stuff is a lie, the proper response for a Yid is to keep quiet.

          Here’s what’s happening here: Someone (and especially someone who knows him personally) wants to call another Jew a tzadik, a moloch, whatever. Let’s say you (who has a good grasp on latest news but never actually met the man) have reasons to disagree. What in the world compells you to go out of your way to make sure everyone knows your so well informed opinion on the matter? What’s in it for you, reb Yid, other than letting your yetzer horoh take control and drive? Clearly all this does is making things worse for *you*, for those who read your comment (i.e. all of us here) and for the man you are talking about. And the benefit is precisely gurnisht. So why then?

    34. Unbelievable. People finding a way to bash the children who worked at the factory. If this was your children and the boss didn’t have a beard and yarmulke, you’d feel differently, wouldn’t you.

      How easily you forget that your grandparents and great-grandparents were immigrants. How easily you forget that this country has laws to protect underage workers, even if they’re desperate enough to apply for a dangerous job. Rubashkin knew better, as did his people.

      Oh, but if it puts meat on your table, what do you care?

    35. How many of you people ask id from a cleaning lady that cleans your house for cash? or may be its better to give this job to an Americans and just let illegals starve to dead ?would that be more human? Now look at Iowa situation illegal workers who had fake ids where paying taxes and everybody where benefiting from it!!!!its definitely less crime then hiring cleaning lady for cash. Pour girl will cry and say anything you want while her boyfriend is a hostage by feds…………..

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