Jerusalem – Yeshiva Students: Dove Coming to Torah Lessons ‘A Sign from God’

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    FileJerusalem – “It’s a real wonder,” one of the students at the haredi Kamenitz Yeshiva says about his new classmate – a white dove. “This holy bird just listens to full lessons.”

    Several weeks ago, during a Torah lesson in the Jerusalem yeshiva, a white dove entered the house of study, sat on the window sill and flew out at the end of the lesson.

    The following days, the bird would arrive at the yeshiva and stand in the corner for the entire lesson – prompting the excited yeshiva students to view it as a sign from God.

    They created a “studying circle” around the bird and began reading Talmud verses and begging forgiveness from the soul which they believed “wandered” into the dove. Surprisingly, these actions did not help send the mysterious bird away.

    Rumors about the righteous bird became the talk of the day in Jerusalem, and students watching the dove with binoculars discovered that it would visit the rooftop of the nearby Vizhnitz yeshiva as well.

    The yeshiva students tried to test the bird once again and sealed all the entrances to the yeshiva, but it “miraculously” managed to get in and attend its regular class on time.

    “A few days ago,” haredi newspaper Bakehila reported, “one of the yeshiva students, who could not bear the great waste of time that could be spent on studying Torah, went over and kindly took (the bird) to his home, where he fed it.”

    The yeshiva student even took the dove to a slaughterer, but it turned out that the magnificent bird does not meet the rules of kashrut and the yeshiva is now contemplating what to do with it.

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    39 COMMENTS

      • schechting the animal would be a tikun for the neshama. one of bthe reasons we eat fish on shabbos is because nishmastzadikim come back as fish and by making a brocho on the fish and eating it is a tikun haneshomo

        • That is, by far, the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard all day. You really think animals like to be schechted? It’s one thing to say that we’ll eat meat; but turning the process into a circus and pretending that the animals should show us gratitude for this singular favor is too stupid even for a yeshiva student to believe.

    1. Maybe its a sign that the learning taking place there is “for the birds?” Maybe the bachurim should strengthen their hasmada and not concern themselves with narishkeit like winged creatures, etc.

    2. The seforim say that doves are gilgulim from tzaddikim – the old Shidlovtzer Rebbe zya (d. 1865) had lots of doves in his chatzar – the present Shidlovtzer Rebbe told me that he has the same “problem” in his beis medrash in Yerushalayim

    3. When I went to Salanter Yeshiva in the Bronx on Webster Avenue in the 1950s, we had many heilege pigeons constantly flying into the classrooms but somehow the only response was to call an exterminator and we did not consider this to be a neis or siman m’shamayim. What has changed in 50 years???

    4. I have doves coming on to my back porch all the time (not right now, it is winter and they are migratory species). They want birdseed. In my state you can get a license to hunt and trap them.

    5. Its well known that the gemora states that eating the flesh of an animal is a tikun for it, and if its a gilgul of a person its a mercy to eat it, because it can be used for the mitzvas of brachos and eventuall to help the person have koichus to do other mitzvos.

      before people go jumping on the shechita part, read your gemora first. it is a tzoros for a neshoma to be trapped in an animal.

    6. its probably mossad agent checking to see how many students there really are there.to see if the amount corresponds with what they get subsides for ..get a cat never fails and go back to your learning

    7. Viznitz monsey has tens of sparrows flying around the bhmd every day. They’re part of the decor. This dove could be the Satan in disguise willing to disturb the learning

    8. to # 17

      שבת דף קנא.ב
      תניא, רבי אלעזר הקפר אומר: לעולם יבקש אדם רחמים על מדה זו, שאם הוא לא בא ־ בא בנו, ואם בנו לא בא ־ בן בנו בא, שנאמר (דברים טו) כי בגלל הדבר הזה, תנא דבי רבי ישמעאל: גלגל הוא שחוזר בעולם

      • no, that’s not what that gemara means!

        “It was taught, R. Eleazar ha-Kappar said: Let one always pray to be spared this fate [poverty], for if he does not descend [to poverty] his son will, and if not his son, his grandson, for it is said, because that for [bi-gelal] this thing, [etc.].20 The School of R. Ishmael taught: It is a wheel [galal] that revolves in the world.21”

        You’ve never heard of the wheel of fortune?

        kol tuv,
        josh

    9. “They created a “studying circle” around the bird and began reading Talmud verses and begging forgiveness from the soul which they believed “wandered” into the dove.”

      Wow. It doesn’t take much to push these guys into avoda zara, does it?

    10. Why does everyone just accept the idea of gilgul neshomos as if it’s miSinai? Why didn’t Rambam include it in his 13 Articles of Faith if it’s supposedly such a basic doctrine of the Torah? Saadia Gaon called reincarnation absolute kefira. You can’t find a clear mention of gilgulim in Tanach or the Gemara (I’m talking about an unambiguous statement, not a vague or allegorical sentence that can be “interpreted” a certain way). Show me something from the Rishonim that backs up this belief in gilgulim. It seems to me the basic belief of our Rishonim was that a person lives his life and is judged for his actions and his neshama is rewarded and/or punished. Period. What do you think Rashi or the Rambam would think about the idea of souls continually coming back to life in various forms — not even necessarily human forms? If I wanted to believe in reincarnation I’d go to India and find a guru.

        • Well, that would mean that Saadia Gaon was an apikorus, G-d forbid, as well as Sforno, the Rosh, and other sages who explicitly said the belief in gilgulim is kefira. As for what your rebbeim taught you, I’m sure they heard it from their rebbeim who heard it from theirs, etc. That doesn’t mean it’s emes. It wasn’t too long ago, by the way, that many leading rebbeim were very reluctant to give approbation to Kabbalistic teachings, from the Zohar or from other sources. But as time went on and the popularity of some of those teachings spread, especially in the chassidishe world, it became harder to come right out and say “we don’t hold from the Zohar.” But I repeat what I said in my earlier post — if gilgulim and reincarnation is such a central tenet of Yiddishkeit, why wasn’t it mentioned even once by Moshe Rabbeinu, by the Talmudic sages (I’d love to see you or anyone else bring a pasuk in support of gilgulim from Onkelos or Hillel or Raban Gamliel or Rabbi Chanina ben Dosa or any of those giants), by Rambam, by Rashi, etc. Was G-d hiding something so vital and important from so many tzadikkim over so many centuries?!

          • Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok said that the Rav Saadia Gaon zya only wrote against gilgul neshamos because he lived in a Muslim country and it was dangerous to write something so radically against Islamic doctrine.

            It is well known that the Baal Shem Tov zya was a gilgul of Rav Saadia Gaon zya to make a tikkun for the fact that he taught against gilgul neshamos – even though he had to because of pikuach nefesh

          • You ask “If gilgulim and reincarnation is such a central tenet of Yiddishkeit, why wasn’t it mentioned even once by Moshe Rabbeinu, by the Talmudic sages … etc. That is for the same reason any of these otherworldly stuff are not mentioned directly. It is not a central tenet to understand how these things work. For the same reason the Torah does not describe how Gan Eden or Gehennom is like. Yes, there are great machklokisim about gilgulim but their non-mention in preemptively halachick and moreh literature does not prove it does not exist.

      • I have read in seforim that the neshama of Nadav Veavihu went into Pinchas. The neshama of Kain into Korach and Yisro, and Chevel into Moshe. I have to check up which seforim…

    11. It astounds me that ppl have such blatant apikorsus.
      As someone mentioned here, NONE of the mystical parts, which might be difficult for us to comprehend, are mentioned openly in the torah i.e gan eden, gehinnom, etc.
      One of the 13 principles is that we believe that what our neviim said is true, the neviim passed on the kabbalistic part of torah which moshe rebbenu had learnt from Hashem and this eventualy reached RaShBI who put it together into the holy zohar.
      Chassidic teachings r holy and true, u may choose not to follow them but denying them is apikorsus, saying that things were passed on and today no one dares speak out is foolishness. Open the holy tanya, kedushes leivi, divrei yecheskel etc etc,
      Gilgul Neshamos is an ABC in yiddishkeit and is found in kabbala all over. Woe to the one mistreating or twisting those holy words!
      May Hashem grant all the readers here Chochma Bina and Daas not to comment foolishly or ch”v with apikorsus.
      May no more tikkunim be needed and Moshiach should reveal to us the answers to lifes riddles very soon in our day, amen

      • There is no evidence in any of the writings and commentaries of the Talmudic Sages, the Rishonim, etc. that they knew of any kabbalah passed down from Moshe rabbeinu. The fact that someone who points this out is accused of apikorsis is a sad commentary on what we’ve become.

    12. About 60 years ago, there was a shortage of food, especially of meat, in EY. My father used to raise pigeons on the roof of his parents’ house for meat. Before my uncle’s Bar Mitzvah, they raised over 200 pigeons, which, after the shochet came around and did hid job, were used to make the Bar Mitzvah seudah.

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