Jerusalem – Belz Threatens To Leave Israel Over Draft Law


    FILE -  Ultra-Orthodox Hassidic Jews fill the Belz 'yeshiva' or seminary, in their synagogue in the Mea Shearim neighborhood in Jerusalem on 11 March 2009. EPAJerusalem –  A few days before the planned massive demonstration against the ultra-Orthodox draft law on Sunday, members of Belz threatened a “mass reduction” of their presence in Israel.

    As reported by Maariv ( the Hasidic group has made their plans to immigrate to the United States and Europe.

    According to an Israeli paper, U.S. senators have promised assistance to those planning to leave Israel and will help in obtaining refugee status for all Haredi families who choose to leave.

    Earlier this week, a historic conference of rabbinical councils was held in Bnei Brak over the growing anxiety of the draft law. Thirty rabbis from Agudate Israel, Shas and Degal HaTorah  attended the meeting to represent the effect of the law on the Orthodox public.

    A mass protest rally is planned for Sunday, the day before the law will be brought to a vote in the plenum. Also part of the vote – the inclusion of criminal sanctions against those who do not enlist.

    Organizers hope to reach a record participation of one million people at the protest.

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      • Lets see, the number of ‘outside’ Belz chassidim that attend the annual Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur davening will go from 5-7K to zero. Say the average person spends 2,000 on a ticket and room/board. Many of these tickets are on ElAl. (5500 {low estimate} x 2,000 = 11 million USD! That is 38.5 million shekels at today’s exchange rate. This is one small myopic event (that generates plenty of shekels for the Medina) in their whole year.
        So the haters among us can say let them go, but this comes with a cost! The non-hareidi public should stop slamming these guys. Its not like they need them for the IDF. Many studies have been conducted that they will not add that much to the IDF and that in many cases it wont be cost effective to draft them.
        The Mir Yeshiva is another example, where they conducted a financial impact study on the effects of this new law/ cuts and showed in black and white (red) that the cuts are silly. That they do not save money, they cost more money. In their case (Mir) they have thousands of foreigners that bring money into the Medina via their student body and their extended families. Cutting the incentive programs that bring in these extra dollars is pure foolery!

        • Your math is very fuzzy.
          A) Who says the foreigners won’t come to the Mir anyhow even with those cuts.
          B)Do they come for the Mir necessarly or do they come in general and the Mir is one of their stops?
          C) They can’t say oh lets look at each yeshiva indiviually and see if funding brings in more money than no funding. What they could say and I think its pretty clear, is that overall funding for all yeshivas is unsustainable and doesn’t nearly bring in as much money were all these guys working.

          • The reason that people come to the mir vs other yeshivot is that it has a special essence (Kol torah) like no other yeshiva. This is enabled through the funding received by both the government and private donations. Until 2000 the Mir didnt charge tuition. It was the use of the programs that helped build it to what it is today. I am not saying that everyone will stop attending because of the cuts, but it will have an effect on future enrollment and hence the institution. If I have to cough up 20k to send my son(s) to a yeshiva in Israel I may just decide not send them. If my family is not in Israel for the year, well then Hawaii looks a lot better as a vacation… The list goes on and on as to the expanded effect of these cuts.

            Hebrew U. gets a stipend for all its foreign students. The idea behind the program is to encourage them to relocate and live in Israel or whatever nonsense they put forth. Why discriminate against one particular religious service? Why do they believe that they are allowed to, because they are Jews?!! Does this give them the right to pick a minority segment of their society and target them? We don’t hear that Arabs are jailed for not wanting to serve??!

            • The idea behind the program is to encourage them to relocate and live in Israel or whatever nonsense they put forth.

              You are your cause’s own worst enemy.

      • Agreed. But I want to know which country is going to allow tbe mass immigration of a bunch of freeolading hasidim. Canada lost its appetite due to those Taliban Jews.
        We do not want them here either, standing outside my shul asking for tzedakah.
        I never served but I grew up in an Anerica w no draft. All Jews used to serve during draft in USA and I know three Jews who served in Afghan.
        Maybe Zimbabwe will take them. Or Syria.

    1. I dont see belz actually leaving their multi-million dollar shul and institutions on Israel. Sorry, don’t buy it. empty threats that I doubt Israelis would be sorry about.

    2. Hey if they head to Brooklyn think of where real estate prices will go. Though it may be more affordable for them to go to Belz. I am sure the Ukkies would be thrilled to have them.

    3. And if they come to the USA ?
      Is there any doubt that they will join Medicaid section 8 and food stamps.?
      Or they will fall on to the shoulders of an already over stretched and near bankrupt Jewish organizations.
      In USA there is a limit on how many years one can collect benefits.I think after a while here they will be davening to go back to the land of milk and honey .
      Israel is the best country to live and not work and claim toiroso eminuso.No other country will stand for their nonsense.

    4. you guys dont get! if the draft law will pass, ALL cheridim will leave. the US has around 300m people 47% (according to Romney) live off the gov. the rest receive free schooling, SS, Medicare etc. + we have around 10m illegal aliens, So im sure uncle sam can accommodate a few belzer יושבים to, without reaching into your dinner plates. relax live and let live.

    5. I don’t get it.!!! Isn’t it a mitzvah to defend Eretz Yisrael and the lives of your loved ones against an enemy? Didn’t Moshe dispatch an army to fight Amalek? And wasn’t it the tzadikim who were usually selected to go out to battle in ancient times? Why are they so reluctant to fulfill their obligations of service in one capacity or another? How frum can they be if they’re so concerned that serving in the army will corrupt their religious values?. It’s the same battle that we all have to wage against the Yaitzer Harah every minute of our lives.

    6. Israel is the ONLY country in the world with a mandatory draft for women. Now based on the epidemic proportions of molestation of women in the US army, we don’t have to imagine to much the serious issues these women face. This is a tremendous chillul Hashem.

    7. They can do whatever they want. It is clear that, once they get here, more than half of them will stop learning and go to work. And that is the point isn’t it.

    8. They were promissed refuge status by US senators? ? ?
      I’m laughing so hard I’m crying. What a totaly foolish sheker statement. The whole maisa lost all credibility at that point.

    9. I don’t even know how to respond to this nonsense. They are all going to pick up en masse and come to America? That will be that much less people taking from Israel while giving nothing back. So really it’s no big deal.

      • Yes actually. This is exactly what they’re going to do. Most Haredim will end up in America. They have absolutely no idea what awaits them here, and I’m not talking about the culture shock.

    10. The Belzer Rebbe Shlita is an ish kodosh as well as a very clever and astute man. If he is threatening to leave Eretz Yisroel there must be a good reason for it. Stop making fun !

    11. For years there was a massive unemployment problem. How come noone ever threatened to leave due to financial concerns? Perhaps they liked the handouts and everybody learning and so it never bothered them?

    12. stop bluffing you ain’t going nowhere you staying there you really want to send them a message do as the SATMERAR RABBI always used to say don’t take any money from them then your not obligated to do anything they can’t tell you what to do he always used to say it is gona come a time thet a erlicher yid will not be able to live in eretz yisroel the Sina for a yid is the same as in Europe

    13. the Eiruv rav is alive and well.
      If all you people were alive during Chanukah times ud b on the side.of the Greeks.
      First off the Chareidim financially believe it or nor contribute massively to the Israel economy in so many ways.

      Those sick people who post here are.just Jewish antisemites. The TOIRAH IS AT STAKE HERE AND YOU PEOPLE DEFEND TGE EVIL ONESS????
      our whole being ia depending on the chareidim learning toirah.
      anyone who doesn’t realize that is a fool

        • To all you fools, idiots, apikorsim, anti-Torah people, etc. etc.
          Can you imagine for a moment what Eretx Yisroel would be like without charaydim and or hesder type people who are shomer Shabbos? To “proud-mo-Israeli” (goy) who said “good riddance) are you insane? From all your posts you are the worst self hating Jew I have ever met or read! You actually HATE religious Jews, don’t you? You don’t belong here. Go join the hare krishna. They need more dancers. Back to the first point. Eretz Yisroel would turn into a wasteland of filth, prostitution, and abortion, gay whatever they are, stealing, murder, etc. It would be the worst country in the world BY FAR! There would be no rain, sickness, starvation etc. I can’t believe that there are actually Torah haters out there that are so bad, that they are completely blinded by their Goyishe upbringing and forget that ISRAEL IS DIFFERENT than every other nation in the world. It’s ONLY existence is Torah and mitzvos. Not lying on the beach eating chazer like some of you on this board love to do. Israel would be wiped off the map AGAIN. But you apikorsim could care less anyway. Who needs Israel? What does it do to warrant existance?

          • Enchulkdik meer giveret. Who is going to stop the arabs from coming to your home, rape you and and your daughters, before they slaughter your whole family? The brave soldiers of the IDF that’s who. One would think that descendants of the town of Belz would know better than think otherwise.

            • Excuse me, but what makes you think they would come do anything bad if we were the jews Hashem meant us to be? Like Torah learning jews?????huh???u fool…you know nothing about Judaism…We don’t need an army if we have Torah and all jews come back to it. Hashem promised us…Hakol kol yaakov…do you even know the rest of that posuk….?

            • Right Mrs, Belz, just like how the kidushim and terhorim of Europe who were the perfect avoidim to Hashem were slaughtered like sheep. You fool, go back to your daled Amos, and your infantile way of thinking. People no longer look up to Belz Kapish?

          • You sound like youre brain was hijacked by a wicked enemy try to control youre emotion try to write like a mature adult and not start like, you fools, idiots, apikorsim whats wrong with you?

          • Besides ranting and raving people there are normal people living in E.Y. who shed their blood for the safety of another Jew. It was apikorsim and frime who conquered Yerushulayim. Torah is not represented by lunatics like you but also by normal people who work every day make a living and raise children who daven and keep shabbes

      • Noone is saying torah doesn’t protect us. But I would venture to say the torah of the working bal habatim in the USA do just as much to protect Israel. When us bal habtim struggle to learn in the morning, evenings and weekends it is just as chashuv in the eyes of the eibishter. And so noone is saying like the evil “greeks” not to learn torah. All we are saying is go to work and learn torah every minute of your free time.

        Oh and by the way those over 22 can now work with no army service. I am waiting to see how many become professionals and of course learn every minute not working

      • No actually, the Torah is not at stake. You mistakenly believe that Haredim alone are the sole keepers of Torah when your religion is so far removed from actual Judiasm that children are able to see what arrogant liars your highest leaders are. Now let Hashem show you the error of your ways. Get the hell out of the holy land.

    14. Its not a bad threat. The Zionists who want to keep Israel Jewish should take notice and offer a compromise that will be acceptable to vast majority of Haredim who cannot learn all day and would like to earn a living. Certainly the IDF is not neither prepared nor do they look like they are trying to prepare to accept a large contingency of Haredim. Obviously the Shaked Bill is a work in progress which has addressed only one side of the issue and has failed to address the other. This is what definition of debate is all about and the outcome is far from settled. On the other hand if the proper compromises are made, whatever that constitutes, and still there is an objection I guess some people will have to become Yordim. They will not be the first Israelis to carry that distinction eventhough they might be the most public.

      • Proper comprimises were already made by the zionists. Its called Vadas Tal. Read up about it. R Aron Lieb was belitled for being practical. Note it is not nachal charedi. It was for those over 24 and married. they did some civil service for three months and were allowed to go to work. But the charedim never comprimised.

    15. Its a great thing to serve your country and its good for the teens discipline and self esteem as well. Just have a special chareidi unit and problem solved.

    16. When the Nazis came after the Jews we also tried to flee.
      Now, the situation is that they are going to put all religious Jews in jail (reminds me of concentration camps) for refusing to join the army. We might have to flee in a worst case scenario.

    17. Oh, please!! They will not get refugee status and anyway it’s not that easy to emigrate to the U.S. The guy is crying wolf nobody is leaving Israel. How about Australia, Canada, South Africa??? I’m sure they’ll welcome them with open arms!

    18. Outrageous!! The comments here are beyond acceptable. The Belzer Rebbe is a Tzadik and Kadosh. A decision to leave made by the Rebbe is highly significant and could lead to further desertions. It would be a tragedy for Israel. Who will remain? Jews who don’t know what Torah is?

    19. One should be careful about maligning a Rebbe. The underlying agenda of drafting Yeshiva Bochurim is to uproot Orthodoxy. Mixing a Yeshiva guy with less religious and anti-religious boys may result in more OTD cases than we already have. Throughout the times of the Neviim besides for the actual soldiers who fought with weapons, there was a great portion of the people who were tasked with learning Torah for the sole purpose of military success.

    20. Sounds more like music to most Israelis ears than a threat. If it’s so bad for them in Israel, they should be encouraged to leave and even given free one way tickets.

    21. Who says it’s a threat? They have to do what’s necessary to protect themselves. They left Europe because of what the goyim did, and they’ll leave EY because of what the Zionists do.

    22. If China would invest trillions in Israel there would be no reason for anyone to leave and every Jewish would have the choice weather to study, work, attend yeshiva or leave the country to work in China or elsewhere. China already bought chemical giant Agam Machtishim Israel and China Bright Dairy Co is in negotiations to purchase Dairy giant Tenuva Israel for a few billion dollars. China would be thrilled to take in Belz as chinese history proves their track record of caring for the Jews during the Holocaust by providing refuge in Shanghai, Harbin, and Tianjin.
      The Chinese favor and look up to the Jewish people for many reasons.
      The “yotai” people remind them of confucious who believed in basic ethic tenets.

        • I posted something similar….but something else occurred to me, too. My brother in law once had to go to China for a few weeks for work, so my sister and their children also went. NO kosher food was available. They took all their food in two very large suitcases. My sister and her children went on a tour bus. The guide NEVER had heard of Jews before…she asked if they were a type of Christian! Really. So much for loving Jews during WW2….to reiterate: China is anti religion. Jews who immigrated there, if that is even possible…I don’t know…would not be allowed to practice. Plus married couples are only allowed one child, occasionally two. And schools don’t have any religious content, and I assume the state schools are mandatory. Some of the suggestions here have been strange, but this is the MOST odd choice mentioned….

          • The Belz and Satmar etc… are so unusal in their practices, that there is NO WHERE ON EARTH, bar a deserted island where they would not run into conflict with their neighbors.

      • I’m stunned you think the Belzers should go to China….China doesn’t allow its residents to be religious, only allows a couple to have a single child….and I’m sure everyone is required to work–and probably be in the military – that part I don’t know for sure ….and to attend state schools where they won’t be allowed to learn any Torah at all. CHINA?? Really??

    23. Its settled B”H. If they all come to America, we need to look at the benefits
      1. They won’t be able to topple R’ Moshe’s Matzeiva next yuhrzeit
      2. The yiden in America will save thousands by not having to buy plane tickets to next Belzer chassineh
      3. Yerushalayim will only have 1 REAL hechsher -from the Eida. No more Belzer hechsairim. The Eida will remain in E.Y. since they and the Neturei Karta are aligned with the arabs
      B”H The good times are coming.

    24. Now that the Rebbe of Satmar KJ went to visit the Belze Rebbe i believe that he will welcome them all to Kiryes Joel…we have plenty of room in KJ and they call imigrate to KJ USA

    25. how could the leave Israel and leave Israel and all the Jews their unprotected. Without their Torah learning Israel will not survive they are condemning thousand to death

    26. Why cant the yeshivashe velt make a home guard where the students can learn how to defend their family s and country? They can have totally frum leaders sergeants , generals and etc. and the medina will be O.K.with that.

    27. what rigths do the secoler society have to e.y. toras moyse wee cheridim were there before the chlocim came they were the representive of the “klal yisroel bgoile hacheraim ldvar hasem” all the time since the chorben the chlocim came like coloniaser fighting against the “yisof hayuson” and the arabs they undermined the yewish yisof in alll arabic contrys direcly and underectly criated antisimisum allover theworld now the want to undermin the yesod hamamid the klal yisroel they do not need those bechorim for the army for defence it is a repid of YALDY TEHERAN ADAS TIMON YALDY MOROKO HOYO OBER B>H> lLOY YIYE all you or most of you poster coments hate spels out from your lines sure there are lidig gayers but 80% of chreidimm are hart working tax payers smol buisnes the “ramban” paskens when you are in scones smat” you have to move to the midbor hi was ultra tow IC ICY VSIFOR DABRI DOVER VLOY YUKIM KI MON KAYL wee are in solidaroti with our gdoylim h. yrich yomom

      • You really need to learn how to write in English. You write in a combo of Italian, Yiddish, Hebrew and who knows what else. Get an education already so you can provide for your family.

    28. I hereby offer free one-way tickets out of Eretz Yisroel to any destination on the planet, restricted to members of any Haredi (Litvishe or Chasidishe) community. The only catch is that you must agree never to return to Ha’Aretz. Please contact me at once.

    29. My father just showed me your reply to his post. Not sure what more he could have accomplished with the education you propose he get. He came to the US states as 14 year old orphan having survived Hitler’s hell and built up a multi-million dollar company. He pays more taxes a year than you’ll probably ever earn in your lifetime. Heck he can even give you a job if you need one. You can become one of his 250 employees. Proper English not a requirement. G-d fearing though is!!!

    30. It’s not just that they don’t need the haredim, there’s a huge movement in this country to go away from a drafted army and start with what’s called a professional army. An Army like the United States, where people get paid for the job they’re doing. It’s not my idea, there are many respected academics that are advocating for this.
      There are obviously pros and cons to this, but believe it or not, such an army would be less expensive to run, not more expensive.
      I’m a modern-ish rabbi, and I agree that we need to do our portion and serving the country, but none of the orthodox Jews in United States send their children to the Army, because they feel there are more valuable routes to pursue in life.
      If Israel would have a professional army, then everyone would make a choice whether they feel this is the route for them.
      But in any case don’t fool yourself into thinking that a draft is particularly necessary in Israel, it no longer is!

      • don’t fool yourself into thinking that a draft is particularly necessary in Israel, it no longer is!”

        You might be a capable rabbi, but you are NO army general. Anyone familiar with the IDF know’s that your statement is false.

    31. In 1942 , month of August Chaim Rumkowski was advised that all old people and children will be resettled euphemism for gas chambers and arrived empty and in the afternoon left loaded with men, women and children guarded by camouflaged wearing SS , Einsatzgruppen for Treblinka and sometimes in the evening you walked and there near barbed a Yid lied on the pavement shot because the
      Schupo was cold and Jew passed by so for fun a bullet in his head. Yes there were minyaminim and people davened. Then there was Buchenwald and the chimney puffed out flames and smoke smelling of burned hair day and night and you walked by and there naked emaciated bodies lied in the mud. Yes, block 66 had a boys minyan. Those who survived some said they enough of Yiddishkeit and dropped out cannot blame them but others continued as their mothers and fathers taught them. Then you read the stupid entries on this website. There was nowhere to flee and nobody to lift a gun or had a gun to defend another Jew. Torah is ahavas yisroel, meaning any Yid who wears a hat and does not wear a hat. It means feeding hungry children , it mean visiting the sick and most of all ahava for another Yid.

    32. Firstly, I learned in the Mir too. And its a great Makom torah. I learned and didn’t play around.
      Now yes tourism will get hit a bit but I doubt enough to turn the net payments formly paid to all the yingerlit into a loss.
      Re why hebrew Unversity and not the mir? Two reasons. 1) Eventually many go to work and contribute back to the economy and so its an investment. 2) I don’t believe the amount of people attending unversities are as much as the people learning in kollel for life.
      Re why not the arabs. Thats a silly argument. As much as the tzionim won’t admit it. We are still in golus. The way to survive is the shmear our enemies. And so yes theoretically you are correct but if you don’t want them to blow us up we have no choice

    33. Of-course it’s far better in the U.S.! As they will take advantage of every government program conceivable (Food Stamps, Section 8, Welfare, Medicaid and Education Funding). What is ironic is LBJ’s two main goals for these social reforms were the elimination of poverty and racial injustice. Spending programs that addressed education, medical care were launched during this period. These programs were never intended for able bodied men and women who have the ability to support their families. These folks are supposed to be our countries greatest achievement! The middle class! So then why are they allowed to continue taking handouts from our government?!?

    34. The same applies for Israel where people have the Chutzpah to say “we will take all your social programs, however, we will not contribute an iota to the welfare, security and future of the Jewish state”. Instead we will disparage Israel on a daily basis. Another point worth mentioning, America unlike Israel can continue to borrow billions of dollars from China to keep it’s economy afloat. If no one steps up to the plate in Israel (ie; joining the workforce, participating in the army) the country that gave our grandparents a place to rebuild after the horrors of Holocaust. The only place in the world that helped them keep their sanity in knowing that g-d hasn’t forsaken his nation, will be unable to sustain itself for future generations.

      Israel now and Israel forever. Am Yisroel Chai.

    35. Reply to # 98
      1- military in China is not mandatory
      2- all ethnic groups in China can have as many children as they wish.
      3- China tolerates any religion that does not missionize (chabad has at least a dozen Jewish centers across mainland China with shuls, minyanim, day schools, learning classes etc)

    36. It’s not just that they don’t need the haredim, there’s a huge movement in this country to go away from a drafted army and start with what’s called a professional army. An Army like the United States, where people get paid for the job they’re doing. It’s not my idea, there are many respected academics that are advocating for this.
      There are obviously pros and cons to this, but believe it or not, such an army would be less expensive to run, not more expensive.
      I’m a modern-ish rabbi, and I agree that we need to do our portion and serving the country, but none of the orthodox Jews in United States send their children to the Army, because they feel there are more valuable routes to pursue in life.
      If Israel would have a professional army, then everyone would make a choice whether they feel this is the route for them.
      But in any case don’t fool yourself into thinking that a draft is particularly necessary in Israel, it no longer is!

      • This is the SECOND time you posted the same comment. Seems you are the ONLY one who thinks this is a god idea. Since you claim to be a rabbi, you should better spend your time giving classes. Gutten Vuch

    37. NY gives the most in entitlements. Willi and BP will fit them right in so why worry? Oh right, if they move to China people will most likely say to them, ” Funny, you do not look Chinese.” Up to them, NY China, or Israel. Let them make a table of pros and cons.


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