New York – NYC Flight Delayed After Ultra-Orthodox Passengers Refuse To Sit Next To Opposite Sex, Exit Plane


    REUTERS/Lucas JacksonNew York – Ultra-Orthodox men and women caused over a one hour delay on a Delta flight Monday night at JFK airport when they de-boarded the plane rather than sit next to members of the opposite sex.

    Haaretz ( reports Delta flight 468 from New York to Tel Aviv was delayed when the Haredi passengers de-planed and their baggage removed.

    This is one of many flight delays over the last month occurring with ultra-Orthodox passengers refusing to sit next to the opposite sex. Several El Al flights were disrupted or delayed, prompting a petition to circulate requesting that El Al put a procedure in place to stop the harassment of women by ultra-Orthodox men on flights to Israel.

    El Al has stated it has no plans to establish a policy for dealing with this situation.

    Information taken from Haaretz

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    1. This just creates more chilul hashem berabim. If these passengers book their tickets knowing that they may be seated next to the opposite gender then what claim do they have? If on the other hand they were guaranteed specific seating then they would have a right to deplane! So which one was it? The odds are the former since no airline can guarantee seating for non reserved seats and only assign these seats as people check in.
      Therefore it would seem on the surface as a chilul hashem let alone causing a delay for hundreds of passengers!

    2. Considering Ahm Haaretz is telling us the story, I would like to know the truth because I am sure as anything that this IS NOT the emes, since they cant do that when it comes to Shomrai Torah U’Mitzvos.

      “This is one of many flight delays over the last month occurring with ultra-Orthodox passengers refusing to sit next to the opposite sex. Several El Al flights were disrupted or delayed, prompting a petition to circulate requesting that El Al put a procedure in place to stop the harassment of women by ultra-Orthodox men on flights to Israel.”

      Really? This is one of many flight delays over the last month?? More than normal? DOUBTFUL!!

      I wouldnt even wrap my smelly ten year old fish in this fishwrap!

      • Well you are wrong… I was actually on one of the flights where it was not only a Chilul HaShem but was Malbim Penai Chaveiro B’rabim. The guy in the next row (Tel Aviv -> London, I had a meeting there) refused to sit next to his wife. It doesn’t take much to understand why… he made her stand in the isle until he found someone to switch seats with her. He ended up having her sit next to a Aino Yehudi man… besides the bigger issues with this… he publicly humiliated his wife in front of everyone on the plane… that my friends may cause Ain Lo Chailek B’Olam Habba…

    3. Judaism has no place for the super frum. there is no reason to cause a delay of a flight because a frum person won’t sit in his seat.let him pay the cost of his delaying the flight and see how fast the ruckus will end

      • These are NOT super from people, more likely super krum. Many of the gedolim of past generations (including R’ Moshe Feinstein, R’ S.Z. Auberbach, etc) were against davening with a minyan on a plane, because it inconveniences and aggravates other passengers, and flight attendants, I doubt any of them would’ve made such a conflagration on a plane themselves, let alone condone such horrible action. Its a class A chillul hashem.

    4. They will end up ruining it for all of us chassidim.

      I fly every year I never have this problem.

      I sit down and I hang a big sign that says i davind selichos sacharis mincha mariv mussaf
      in front of my place.

      And if a women sits next to me that’s to bad on me.

    5. Kudos to this charedi man that deplaned, perhaps the women who he was going to sit next to could have been violated s e have seen with other charedim on long flights sitting next to the opposite sex.

        • Why is that some people think that if you are upset with the increasing insular, condescending and sometimes outrageous behavior that is becoming ever more increasing in the charedi community, you are a self-hating Jew? The fact is that we love Judaism and are proud to be Jews. We are angry at the ignorance that is invading our communities.

      • Kudos for making a chilul Hashem? Hmmm! Maybe this alleged Frum person could do something in advance to arrange his seat, like advertising or arranging with his travel agent to sit another male client on the same flight next to him. You can choose your seat in advance, so do it.

    6. How ridiculous! Chillul Hashem!!!
      I am Chasidish and I would never cause a commotion. These people need to book an aisle seat and can always change with another passenger if they ask nicely. There is also an option to buy 2 seats if it’s that important to them. There are people who do it for comfort. If you can’t afford it, there is also the option of staying home!
      Oh, and btw, not all “haredis” are this crazy. it’s the few crazy ones who make us all look bad.

    7. I can understand trouble on elal as they do their best to seat people in the worst way possible.
      To cause disruption on other airlines is a chilul Hashem and can easily be avoided by prebooking seats for a small fee, definitely preferable to causing a chilul Hashem.

    8. To number 4
      Two weeks ago I flew from JFK to Eretz Hakodesh on a stopover flight in Europe. Four “chassidim” were on the flight. They started out by one cutting the check-in line with not even an “excuse me.” The first flight had enough empty seats for them to sit together. The eldest of the group took the opportunity, while his friends used the facilities, to leave his seat, go towards the back where I had a perfect view of him, rush to the pocket of an empty seat, whip out the magazine (not Der yid, or even Mishpacha,) start flipping the pages, when, alas, one of the others came out of the facility earlier than expected. He dropped it back in the seat pocket and ran.
      Lo and behold, on the next shorter flight, the plane was packed. The four refused to be seated, stood in the aisle while the pilot announced take off. The plane was full of non Jews on a tour, none of them were ready to leave their pals and change seats, the Chillul Hashem was great. There was a loud buzz of discontent and displeasure from the non Jews and lehavdil few Yidden on the plane, the staff was plotzing. I couldn’t see how it was settled but the plane was delayed at least 15 minutes.

    9. The egregious part of this is that a passenger with a “special requirement” gives no advanced notice to the airline when booking the flight, but fully expects the “special requirement” to be adhered to when already on the plane, even at the expense of inconveniencing hundreds of others…more than a chillul Hashem…simply outstanding in the annals of stupid things that a Frum person would do… (notwithstanding the fact that you can’t pre-purchase a seat guaranteed not to be next to a woman)…..
      I don’t see why this person was not arrested for disturbance…..

    10. If the story is true then obviously it should be condemned as a Chilul Hashem.

      BUT… All the self righteous people here who are indigent over the “Chassidic” abuse, are equally guilty of being judgemental. It’s completely hypocritical. You don’t know the full story!! Yet you jump to criticize in the harshest terms.
      There is only one word for such brash actions

    11. Why does this only happen to NY-TLV flights? Are these people not flying anywhere else in the world? Or is it only Israeli chasidim who have this mishegas, seeing as it is only Israeli chasidim who throw rocks and spit at little girls?

    12. People should not judge the chassidim negatively until you have all details. How dressed were those women? In the bank where I work, there is a dress code and if you don’t come dressed properly, you are sent back home. It is not right for women to go on airplane “undressed” in short skirts – it is offensive to some. If the women were not properly dressed the chassidim did very well in getting out.

      The morality levels in the secular society is so low that they are very insensitive to true moral values. Have respect for your religious chassidic brothers.

      • Are you suggesting that all passengers have to conform to a dress code? Are you for real? Whose code and who will enforce it? This was Delta, not Air Bnei Braq. Frankly, if you are travelling by public conveyance, you are accepting de-facto that others might dress in a way that makes you uncomfortable. Too bad – don’t look!. If you have such a big yetzer hora that the sight of a woman’s hair or knee will cause you to act immorally, then you need to hire a private jet – or maybe fly Saudia. Or better yet, try rowing to Israel. Those clowns can be aptly described as tzaddikim in peltz!

      • Non-Jews are not obligated for rules of tzniut. Derech eretz is required even outside the shtetel. Don’t like they way people dress on public conveyance? Don’t use those means of transportation.

    13. Whilst I personally would not kick up a fuss if seated next to a woman, I have witnessed occasions where seats could easily be swapped to accommodate the charedim, but those who could do so refuse on a point of principle. However, almost always if the request is made in a respectful and pleasant manner people cooperate.

    14. i dont see why others should suffer for your chumras. and its not the airlines fault, you should have asked from the beginning, and they cant force others to switch their seats for you. and its not anyone elses obligation to change seats for your chumros, especially a non jew. and it is a chillul hashem. maybe ask a rabbi before you make headlines all over the world, if this is what hashem wants from you.

    15. Something is odd..!
      “Delayed 1 hour????” Over what??? A seat??? Ain’t make any sense..
      I travelled with kids….I waited 15 minutes to reorganize my seats as we were completely scattered around the plane. A 3yr old in one end. 5 yr old the other… T’wad sorted out in 15 mins…I have a hard time believing the delay wasbfor one hour. Probably not more than 15 mins.

      • Once they finally left the plane, their luggage had to be found and removed from the cargo hold as well. That added to the delay. Regulations forbid personal luggage to fly on the plane without its owner for security reasons.

    16. Unlike El Al, the American carriers which fly to EY will not tolerate this nonsense; they will order those causing problems to leave. If they refuse, the cops will be brought onboard, and escort them off.

    17. If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you expect other people, who paid the same price for their airline ticket as you did, to accommodate you with seating arrangements, you’re in for a big surprise and if you CAN’T live with that, I have two small words for you, “DON’T FLY”!

      • Sorry. The usage is correct. “Gender” properly refers to language for those tongues that distinguish between male (zachar) and female (nekevah) terms. Sex refers to the state of being male or female.

        For example, in Hebrew “shulchan”, the word for table, has gender of female although it clearly has no sex. In German, “kind”, a child, has a gender of neuter, although any particular child will have a sex of either male or female.

        Many languages have more than two genders. People (and mammals in general) have only two sexes.

        In short – gender is for words, sex is for people. If this make you uncomfortable, perhaps you should consider an English-speaking monastery.

    18. One can only wish that these dreche yidden are found head down in a dumpster somewhere in meah shearim which is probably where they are headed. At a minimum, their tickets should be cancelled without refunds and a smart lawyer should sue them for the costs resulting from the delay. Maybe if a court judgement would bankrupt them, they would learn a lesson to sit down in their assigned seats and shut up and mind their own business until the plan arrives in EY.

    19. He was probably hoping he was going to be seated next to a little boy ….
      so many of them charedim who spit at a woman’s face as if it was some kind of a plague but then get caught with little boys
      it is all the fault of the Rabbonim who created this atmosphere and left out any possibility of discussion of the negative effect it could potentially cause in the real world outside of the shtetle, but then again these rabbonim are not living in the real world so why should i expect anything like that

    20. This is a bigger Chillul Hashem than hoping your day is innocent when you switch your lights on on sabbath or even help yourself to a non-kosher restaurant. Who thinks that Israel has a right to delay any air travel because the directions on their mood are not consistent with the realities of some of their “selective” hopes of their heart. I am mortified that this sort of lead weight religion will give every orthodox jew a singed development in human history. We do need tolerant rabbis to speak up. Horrible feelings over every story like this. An aliyah is not supposed to begin with shackles for the community that flies.


    21. You know, I think it’s part of their entertainment that they can delay a plane and make a ruckus. If they would ask their local Rabbi – he would tell them to book their tickets together and pick seats together. Pretty easy to do. Or, of course, they could stay home.

      I was once on a bus in Israel. I am over 65 – my husband needed a seat, so someone got up for him in the front of the bus. There was a Hassid sitting opposite and he moved over too, so I thought he was being nice, so I took the seat. He flew out of his seat in such a rage that it took my breath away. There is something very wrong here.

    22. My Rabbi, Rabbi Swift in Pittsburgh paskened that it is mutar to sit next to your wife on a plane. He didn’t specify if you can sit next to her at home or in public.

    23. This type of fanatical behavior only breeds Anti Semitism. Lock up a block of seats and be happy. We are not alone on this planet and imposing your way on others only breeds hatred. This is no better than the Muslim fanatics wanting the world to obey Sharia Law.

    24. I would LOVE to see you try to pull this crap on a rush-hour NYC subway.

      BTW, all of this garbage presupposes that it is ossur to sit next to a woman on a plane. You morons who think so are completely wrong!

    25. I can accept that for some this is a very serious issue. Most poskim don’t agree, but let’s accept this is what it is.

      We pay double to as much as quadruple for our meats and cheeses because we want to ensure reliable kashrus. Because this mitzvah is so important to us, we are willing to pay more.

      We pay more for the perfect esrog.
      We give up most of our vacation time at work to cover for each day of yom tov throughout the year.

      The reality of being Jewish is that we have to pay more, in one way or another, to live the life we choose to live.

      That brings me to a simple solution: If you want to be sure you are not seated next to someone of the opposite sex, simply buy the seat next to you. If you are willing to risk being charged with a crime and taken to jail over it, you should be willing to pay a few hundred dollars more to satisfy your requirement.

    26. I flew delta a while ago and it took the chassidim an hour to sit down and stop going to the bathroom luggage overhead shmuzzing and going back and forth to the bathroom. the flight attendants said repeatedly to sit down and were ignored. another orthodox flyer complained to them and he said whats the rush. I just flew Aeroflot from isreal at 1 am in the morning. it took a half hour for these chassidim how to sit and where. when we were in the air the women didn’t stop gabbing in for 2 hours till 3 am in the morning. the children were running in the aisles repeatedly (A REAL hazard) . There are halochos so many of tircha dtzibur and robbing ones neighbor of sleep. How do you expect nonfrum and non jews to have a favorable impression of frum jews with all these incidents and more?


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