NEW YORK (VINnews) — Following the VIN exclusive last week, in which it was reported that Rabbi Aron Feldman and Rabbi Malkiel Kotler threatened to quit the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah of Agudas Israel of America of which they are both members, it seems that Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, the leading Posek of Lithuanian Jewry has issued a bombshell ruling.
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Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky wrote Rabbi Kanievsky a two page handwritten in depth letter, presenting the question of whether one should vote in the WZO elections. Rabbi Kanievsky responded that it was 100% permitted according to Halacha, giving the strongest backing possible to Rabbi Kamenetsky and Rabbi Elya Brudny who had both ruled it was permitted before coming under attack for their opinion.
Meanwhile, a Moetzes meeting was held on the phone where the issue was discussed. Rabbi Kotler and Rabbi Feldman once again questioned Rabbi Kamenetsky who responded by reading his in depth letter and response from Rabbi Kanievsky. The meeting was immediately adjourned.
Despite this, Rabbi Feldman – who is the Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel of Baltimore – for some reason decided to release a letter on Friday in a Lakewood publication blasting Rabbi Brudny for stating that people should vote for the WZO.
Rabbi Feldman states in his public letter that Rabbi Brudny withdrew his position. In fact, that is not the case at all. Neither Rabbi Kaminetzky or Rabbi Brudny have retracted their opinions. In fact, they have doubled down following the ruling of Rabbi Kanievsky and Rabbi Edelstein.
Rabbi Kotler, the Rosh Yeshiva of Beth Medrash Govoha, is an ardent supporter of what has been become known as the “Peleg Yerushalmi,” which follow the views of the late Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach. As of late, he has become a vehement anti-Zionist, going as far as to throw support behind Satmar. While Rabbi Kotler opposes simply voting in the WZO elections, it appears he has no issue that the Chairman of Beth Medrash Gavoah, Mr. Howard Tzvi Friedman, is an ardent Zionist who served multiple times as the Chairman and President of AIPAC, the most Zionist organization in the United States.
Rabbi Kotler will take money from anyone. So will Rabbi Feldman. This has nothing to do with Zionism. This has everything to do with destroying Rav Kanievsky. Just ask Lemberger, Rabbi Kotlers driver. I overheard him telling this to someone this week.
So let me ask you VIN,
וואס איז די אויפטי פין דעם?
What’s the point of this other than loshon hora and r’chilus?
This article is obviously written with a strong bias.
First of all, we have no idea about what Reb Chaim said, or how it was explained to him. Why didn’t Reb Shmuel quote Reb Chaim too?
Secondly, this article seems to imply Reb Aron Feldman is not saying the truth about Reb Elya Brudny. Rabbi Feldman only writes that Reb Elya retracted one point. Rabbi Brudny, by the Aguda convention, declared it was the opinion of the Moetzes that everyone should sign. This is what Rabbi Feldman is saying was taken back. It is merely Rabbi Brudny’s own opinion to sign and he misrepresented the opinion of the rest of the Moetzes which includes Rabbi Feldman himself and Rabbi Kotler.
Additionally, this has absolutely nothing to do with Peleg or their philosophy. It is a totally different issue. Mixing the two is just trying to make Rabbi Kotler and Rabbi Feldman appear as extremists.
The real problem is that Rabbi Kotler and Rabbi Feldman do not rely on the web to publicize their side of the story. Rabbi Brudny’s side does.
This Article should be taken down. Don’t get involved in gedolim disagreement
ב”ה שיש לנו מנהיגים גדולים כמו מרן שר התורה, מורינו ר’ גרשון, ומרן רב שמואל שליט”א
יאריך ה’ ימיהם על ממשלתם בטוב ובנעימות בבריות גופא ונהורא מעליא
You make it sound like this is the first time in history that our gedolim had disagreements. Ever heard of Hillel and Shamai, Abaya and Rava, Rambam and Ravaad etc.
דאס האט די רבי זי”ע האט געטייטשט
למכה מצרים ”בבכוריהם”
Seems like VIN is trying to make this more than it is.
Rav Feldman never blasted anybody
I think there is enough Gedolim who forbid to participate so I think it’s appropriate to be
שב ואל תעשה עדיף.
Plus on the face of it its seems like פורץ גדר on something Klal Yisroel always refrained from.
R Feldman does not appear to be against participation as a matter of philosophy, but rather on a technical/halachic matter that participating involves declaration of a statement that he views as problematic.
No reason to make this into a political/philosophical issue. It’s a halachik question.
If you are uncomfortable making the decision yourself, ask your Rov, which opinion to go with.
To Emes: You are a liar and nothing close to Emes. Rabbi Brudny never said this at the convention
You know this and if you don’t, you are stam an idiot. The video is all over the Internet of the comment made by Rabbi Brudny and is nothing like you and Rabbi Feldman claim.
“Rabbi Feldman only writes that Reb Elya retracted one point. Rabbi Brudny, by the Aguda convention, declared it was the opinion of the Moetzes that everyone should sign.”
He said just the opposite. Literally 100% the opposite. He clearly said that the Agudah can not be involved in this at all and as a Yochid people (meaning himself) can.
In fact, Rabbi Feldman was asked at the Moetzes meeting months ago by Rabbi Brudny himself if a person in the Moetzes can make their own odak on their own and he said yes.
Guess Rabbi Feldman wither has short term memory loss, or the Peleg sent him a fat check.
Oilam is not goilam.
Are we forgetting that we have over 6m of אחינו בני ישראל ן in E”Y..instead of putting the country in jeopardy why doesn’t satmar send hundreds of its chasidim as well as other antagonists to work on kiruv which is successful in E”Y. Voting in the election could mean vast sums of money towards that very effort.
The entire vinnews is Shona uperush, zero Neemanus on anything.
Like Reb Moshe once said eina neemenes
I am out of the loop. What benefit for klal Yisroel is there in casting votes for WZO? If the frum community succeeds in getting a number of representatives elected into the 500 member congress, how will that help? I am not arguing or suggesting that it won’t help, just trying to understand the expectations. Is there any realistic possibility that WZO would fund any useful purpose? Like funding yeshivas?
It’s no different from voting in the Israeli elections.
Take this article down!!
Once you live in Israel regardless of whether you are pro Zionist or anti Zionist the fact is that you are affected by what happens in the Knesset And should therefore vote for the group that’s the most religious and the same is true about this since it affects the religious Jews in Israel
When asked by his chassidim in Israel which party to vote for, the lubavitcher rebbe always told them (without naming any specific party) to vote for whichever party is the most religious.
One time shortly before the elections one of the people running for Knesset in a not religious group was in America and he asked the lubavitcher rebbe why he’s telling his chassidim not to vote for him. The rebbe answered that he never told anyone not to vote for him and he only says to vote for the most religious group so if you want my chassidim to vote for you then you still have a few weeks to become the most religious group
“Despite all of this… Rabbi Feldman for some reason decided”
Shame on you for this writing, yes HE decided, he’s a Godol in his own right, so he’s not in line with VIN, so what???
Let each person follow their Torah leader. As individuals. With leaders as individuals.
My Rabbeim have advised voting for Slate #4 . So, I must be nichnah to Daas Torah.
This argument that mr Friedman is an ardent Zionist and bmg shouldn’t take money from him is the silliest stupidest argument I have yet to hear.
Frum mosdos or chasidus do not agree with many things that it’s donors do in their personal life’s There is no issur or anything wrong with taking money for your mosod bec of that. There are extreme such as when one is a mechalal Shabbos or eats trief in which case some mosodos hold that one should not be taking money since that’s the essence of Judaism. But if one is a bit of a tzioni , and you disagree you can’t take money?( what if he eats chalav Stam and you don’t) That’s such a silly line to draw
can someone include as link on how/where to become a member/vote?
Reb Aron Kotler was know n as an uncompromising opponent of Zionism. Of course Zionism is treif and there cannot be any association with anyt organisation that bears that name. l These criteria apply to the ZOA. Shmo gorim. So it is just not politically possible for us to have anything publicly to do with them. It was the publicity that was given to it and hence the announcement. If you are concerned about giving some money to a Zionist organisation – then you can’t sign -ober bezinno – if you compare it to riding on a bus operated by a ZO than you would sign.
For all those who may wish to vote and support the psak of HaRav Elya Brudny and HaRav Shmuel Kaminetzky.
Here is the original Vosizneias article and the link how to vote if you’d like to.
https://vinnews.com/2020/01/21/the-kedusha-of-eretz-yisrael-is-being-threatened-you-can-protect-it/
My my how history repeats itself.
In 1898 Herzl wanted to bring the first Zionist Congress to Munich Germany. Of course it contained a mix of secular and traditional Jews, but there were also some religious like R. Reins and Mizrachi, who realized this historic significance and wanted to take part in the talk about returning to Zion the land of Eretz Yisrael that Jews pray for every day, and have some positive religious influence on the process.
Two groups opposed this vehemently, the Orthodox and the Reform.
The Reform understandably because they took all references to Zion out from there sidur and said, “We will never return to Zion, to be a good Jew means to be a good German.” Then comes along Hertzl and wants Jews to return to Zion for real, he became their worst enemy.
What about the Orthodox who prayed to go to Zion everyday? They hated the secular Zionist so much, and felt threatened like they’re whole world and perhaps power, would fall apart that they and the Reform movement, both sworn enemies, joined together to blacklist, boycott and ban the Zionist Congress from taking place in Munich Germany. Heaven Forbid!!!
Jewish Enemies uniting against Aliya!
Well apparently, Hashem had other plans so the Zionist Congress went on in Basel Switzerland. Guess what came to Munich Germany 20 years later? the place where most Jews, Orthodox and Reform, kicked out the Zionists from even having a conversation about returning to Eretez Yisrael/Zion ???
The Nazi party!!! That’s right!
Those Jews who thought for themselves, ignored most of the Rabbi’s and leaders and went to Eretz Yisrael following Jabotinskys pleading and leadership, survived and created the state of Israel.
Unfortunately 6 million Jews fought against the Zionists and decided to stay in Europe and followed their Rabbis and leaders to the gas chambers.
Learn from history. Don’t repeat it!!!
https://thejerusalemconnection.us/blog/2011/08/08/jabotinsky-warning-to-warsaw-jews-tisha-bav-1938/
Howard Zvi Friedman is not an ardent Zionist. What he does is gives his free time to help Israel fight against its enemies. AIPAC lobbies congress for funds for Israel to fight the Arabs and keep its citizens safe including all the Bnei Torah sitting and learning
Can someone please explain in plain English ,what this disagreement is about? Couldn’t a Beth Din be activated in order to settle these disputes, instead of having such disputes being argued in the media?
RYB”L asked E”H if he can join him on his travels E”H said yes but you can’t ask any questions about what I’m doing no matter how hard it is to understand. One evening they arrived in Lakewood and went to the shul and waited for someone to invite them to their house to eat and sleep but no one invited them to their house so they went to sleep hungry in the shul. The next day as they were leaving the town E”H gave a Bracha to the town that everyone should become leaders of the town
If only Chabad would take one side, all the gedolim would join together on the other side. This is when we need Chabad! It is a chutzpah that Chabad is not involved. Shame on them.
at the urging of hagon rav kamenetsky shlita who was directed by the gadol hador reb chaim shlita, i voted for slate #1 = ERETZ HAKODESH , if their is any way to try and keep the land of israel maintain the status quo regarding religion they get my vote. NO i dont demonstrate by blocking roads nor do i insist you practice religion as i do i disagree perhaps with your choices but its yours to make . At the same time the agreements that were agreed and signed between the heads of govt at the time and the religious parties shouldnt be tampered with . thats why i voted and support the party that will support a jewish land that respects torah and the right to live by its laws
The fact is that the Satmar Rov and Rav Aharon has a fundamental disageeement on the question as to whether to accept money from the Israeli government. The Satmar Rov said it was not permitted and Rav Aharon held that it was allowed. More important than their disagreement on this fundamental question was the fact that despite their disagreement, they treated each other with the greatest respect. The Satmar Rov gave a Hesped at Rav Aharon’s Levaya. He cried like a baby because of Rav Aharon’s loss. And yes, as one blogger said this is not the first time that Gedolim disagreed with each other. Hillel and Shamai, Abaye and Rovo, Rav Yochonon and Reish Lokish, etc. But they treated each other with utmost respect. Yet, we have Chutzpeniks and mental pipsqueaks on this site who blast one or another of our Gedolim. Who are you to comment on what the Gedolim say or their disagreements?
we must give this whole matter more time and the gedolim/ rabbis will clarify what to do , to vote or not to vote . peace in israel and around the entire globe will be had very soon .
“Who cares about Zionism? Who cares about Israel? They’ll survive without us. We live HERE in the United States.” Quoted by Unfiltered Phone.
Seriously, you call yourself a Jew? How can you say such a thing and not be ashamed of yourself?
If Gd forbid you need to run for your life out of america, you’ll run here to Israel and I can assure you, you won’t have a bed to sleep in in my house.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Is a Rosh Hayeshiva automatically our Gadol Hador????? Reb Chaim is considered BY ALL a gadol Hador. Saar Hatorah and many many more titles. A Rosh Yeshiva is just that.
The rosh hayeshiva r Ahron Feldman told a group of bochrim today after his shmooz that the rumor going around that he was chozer from his pesak that it’s Oser to vote in the wzo elections was a made up sheker of the Crazy Zionist reporters. Please tell all Jews around the world that it’s oser to vote in the Zionist world organization. Thank u for ur cooperation
From the video posted by B. Mizrachi it seems like Rabbi Brudny is saying individuals should vote, even though Agudah as an organization can’t take an official act of joining with secular zionism.
Vote here:(til March 11)
https://www.zionistelection.org/election/2a3b7a80-ba00-42ec-957e-c0375167a065