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Today is Isru Chag, a day we often look back at the memories we created during the last eight days. Memories with children and grandchildren, memories of a beautiful Hallel in Shul sung with friends and family, memories of meaning Divrei Torah spoken by our Rabonnim over Yom Tov and of course memories of a long meaningful seder with a crowded table full of amazing nachas.
For many of us this was still a beautiful Yom Tov though very different, for some it was even painful as they were forced to sit alone at the seder. As a nation who has a clear understanding that everything comes from Hashem, I would think we have a better outlook on what is going on then most of the world.
However from my point of view it appears that some of us are missing something. First and foremost we are required to listen to our Rabonim & Gedolim secondly we are required to listen to medical professionals, both of whom are telling us to daven at home yet still there are “secret minyanim” going on.
Should I assume that the people at these minyanim are not aware of these rulings, are not aware that they are putting the lives of their families and neighbors in danger, I can try. However I sincerely believe that these minyanim are practicing malicious behavior and are creating a massive Chilul Hashem.
To make matters even worse, there is at least one Rav in Flatbush who is holding a secret minyan in the basement of his shul.
I beg of all, my brothers, who I love and care for deeply to stop this destructive behavior. Perhaps Hashem is waiting for all of us to be home one day and feel the pain together of not being able to go to shul. Perhaps when you start listening to the words of our Gedolim you will be bringing an end to this terrible plague.
Please take my words to heart and stop.
Please share with us your source that making Minyanim with the correct social distancing guidelines is illegal.
You won’t find a source.
Unsigned letter. Brave enough to write a public letter with his/her opinion but not brave enough to identify ones self…
Once again this comes down to the people who know, the people who think they know, and the people who know nothing. I already know which side the person who wrote this is on.
Just to clarify this author is bothered that there is a rov who pasken for his k’hilah different that the way this author would have liked him to pasken.
A rov who has a secret minyon is clearly doing what he holds is right and those who follow him and trust him should listen.
There was a post on this website earlier, which said from a secular journalist, that there’s nothing wrong with minyanim outside with PPE and proper social distancing. I’m not sure the author of this anonymous post knows what the definition of chillul Hashem is.
How do you do social distancing when the Baal Koreh is laining and the עולה is standing right next to him and secondly how do you do הגבה גלילה standing 6 feet away? And how come you see people going into these private minyonim and hardly anyone is wearing a mask or gloves?
1. You can be called up to the torah without touching and standing away from the bal koreh
2. You can have the people being called up from the same family
3. You can have the bal koreh read the entire parsha himself
hagbah and kalia would be from the same family
I had the same opinion until the first day of Pesach. I also said, “the doctors are calling these people roschim.” By the last day of Pesach I decided that until Moshiach comes not too much can change. Not people going to family for meals. Not Minyonim. Not going to Mikva. Not chasana plans. Not vacation plans. Nothing really will change unless forced to change by the police like in Erez Yisroel. The reason is simple, I Personally have a rov that is not only a rov for shailos. He is my mora derech. When my rov sent out a message everyone in shul should quarantine I did so. When he said don’t daven with a minyon in homes I listened. There are many people in this catagory. BUT, The fact is many people don’t have a “rov”. They davenin in one shul for shachris a second shul for mincha and a third for marriv. On Shabbos they may daven in the local shtible. For many many yidden they have no one to guide them in such situations. A second problem which also can’t really be rectified is technology. Many in our community don’t have internet, don’t listen to the radio, they don’t read newspapers many are truly clueless and what they know is usually hearsay. I have a not-frum acquaintance who questioned me about the large crowd that went to a levaya. I pointed out that in the non-jewish world if someone wants a crowed they post on social media and in a minute you can have your riot. These people came as individuals they heard a great person passed away so they came. I wasn’t condoning the action but I got him to understand these people weren’t just looking to disobey the rules they truly didn’t realize the seriousness of their actions. My final point, the only one that you can change is yourself. Lets us daven the best we can. Learn more Torah, do more chesed and don’t worry about anyone else. It won’t help anyway.
Ok stop with all your nonsense. Doctoes in Boro park said that All of Boro park had already covid 19. Theres no point of crying over spilled milk. Most of those minyonim is pple that had already the virus and can go on with life.
The hatred and chillul Hashem caused by these gatherings is horrific! As Rav Dovid Cohen wrote: it’s not mitzva ha’ba b’avairah; it’s avairah itself!
I just read on another frum site that Lakewood poskim said it’s ok to have porch minyans as long as they Adhere to rules.
What’s with the obsession on this site with minyanim. It’s really sickening. ( Fyi I am davening at home ). There are so many real problematic things going on in the community that you should be focusing on instead of worrying about 10 people doing what there Rav is paskening and following all the CDC guidelines. Enough already. The chillul hashem is what we are doing by constantly calling out our brethren!!
That minyan is following their Rov just like you follow your Rov.
You have no business second guessing other Rabbonim and giving them the Benefit of the doubt as in dahn l’kaf zechut.
Stay home and mind your own business if you can’t judge others ‘l’kaf zechoot.
This complaint letter has no Toeles other then to stir up hate and trouble.
Its a good thing that for those of us who believe in hashgacha pratis understand that someone elses negligence won’t effect Hashems decision on whether to get you sick or not. Only your own negligence is taken into account. Since your health is decided by hashem talk to Him about it not us
Everyone that R”l died got it from someone. Why do we need the Eglah Arufah ? Why does the torah make such a big deal if one person dies ? Can we all say Yudeini Loi Shofchu es Hadom Hazeh ?
The point this author makes, just confirms why these minyanim happening. He said, first listen to Rabbonim and Gedolim, second listen to Doctors. Anyone and everyone can or is a Rabbi or a Gadol, and can trump a Doctor. Even if a Doctor says, someone is facing death, the author admits, it doesn’t matter. I will go to my gadol for a halachic question or for pshat in a sugya, but this understanding of how to conduct life is the essential problem.
Sad is that there may be thousands of people in secret minyanim. They might be prolonging the lifecycle of the virus and extending the lockdown. There are hundreds of thousands that are Davening without a minyan. Add up those lost minyan opportunities against the yechidim that are Davening with one. Maybe a month of private minyanim equals a day for everyone else. Shut it down so that everyone can get back to shul earlier.
When it comes to shabbos and yom kippur we desecrate it in the blink of an eye when it comes to safek pikuach nefesh. How come when it comes to a minyan (which is d’rabanan) are we suddenly so frum? These minyanim are endangering lives! It is not rocket science.
“It wont help” maybe. Unfortunate it will hurt a lot. When the Spanish and Muslim nurses in Brooklyn see this on TV and they have aFrum Landlord etc they will treat US All of US accordingly. We the silent majority need to stand up. It will Help.
Every machlokes in klal Yisrael was always that everyone has to do the same as some that felt that their way is the right way, but that’s not what klal Yisrael is, there are always different opinions there is no one halach in all of shulchan aruch that doesn’t have multiple opinions, and the correct way is it that every individual does as his Rav or posek tells him to do, we have to stop saying that there are people that don’t follow rabbonim, all of them have a Rav that does allow minyanim, every Rav has the right to pasken whatever he sees is right, those who want that everyone should follow their Ravs opinion has no clue how Jewish halacha works.
Chosid shotehs every single person insisting on endangering themselves and others in account of a rabbinic mitzvah. Do people read pirke Avos? A minyan is not necessary for Hashem to hear prayer. In addition Saying shma is the only doraisa Dik chiyuv and does not need a minyan. These people are acting like rubes and amaratzim in my opinion. Sure break the law of the land. Encourage sina from goyim and secular and also endanger your life. Dumb dumb and dumber
Yes Hashem decide who gets sick and dies or gets better. But why would you not take every precaution under the sun to help your own situation in addition to emuna. ? If hashem wants you to win the lottery still gotta buy a ticket shoteh!
1. My Rov – who is well known and well respected the world over, davvens in the minyan. Nuff said.
I’d write the name of the Rov, for many people will recognize the name, but don’t want to cause him harassment. May each person consult their rav.
2. Why not ask a doctor? The doctors can tell me that there is a level of danger, but they cannot gauge the value of tefilla b’tzibubr – its not their field. So when there is a question if tefilla b’tzibbur warrants the danger, someone who knows both is consulted.
The writer is making a mistake. He quotes that the Rabbonim in Lakewood assured ALL minyinum machmas aiva. That is correct for LAKEWOOD. The Rabbonim there lakebed based on what they see there. I happen to daven with a porch minyan WITH a Rav. We have Kris’s HaTorah and no one other than the Baal koreh goes within 8 feet (not 6) of the Torah. Finally, if you are so worried about aiva, then stop publicizing your issues on the public web….
I live in Monsey and have had a Minyan from my porch since Erev YTomtov. I have a Doctor as my neighbor and he davened with us. I have a Sefer and had 4 people in my house for Yomtov. With my 4 and the 5 houses in my view, we had about 11 to 12 people at every minyan. I am now unable to talk as I was the Chazan since we started. We started laining on Shvii Shel Pesach. I called up a Kohen for the first 2 Alyos who happens to be a Bal Koreh and then I lained the rest. My boys and my son in law had aliyos. Any of my neighbors who were willing to make the Bracha from their porch, I gave aliyos to them also. Today I moved my table used as the Bima under my porch because it was raining. I actually had 2 aliyos today including Maftir. We then had Rosh Chodesh Bentching.
Everyone heard me throughout Yomtov and my closest neighbors porch was at least 50 feet away. I was able from my vantage point able to see all my neighbors who were at least 75-100 or more feet away. At one point during Yomtov I thanked everyone for joining and told them all the following. If anyone is concerned that we are doing something wrong, after 120, I will take upon myself all the punishment. It made me feel good that my 2 neighbors who are saying Kaddish were able to do so.
As far as Eiva is concerned, I live on a block that is a dead end on one side and ends 1/2 mile down from my house. There are no non jews living on my block so we didn’t really see anyone driving around. As far as asking a Rav, I did, and his Shver davened with us! Thanks for listening.
Simple don’t pasken for me.Rabbi Cohen is the Amshinover Rebbe Shlita doing an averah or Rabbi Eisenberger or the great Chasdiche Rebbes of our time all doing averas?????
No problem ailoo v’ailoo
Don’t keep fighting respect both sides .
Why can’t people mind their own business? If someone decides to daven with a minyan its none of your business! The obsession with Minyanim has gone way to far. Everyone do what works for them and keep your nose in your own business. No one promoted you to the “antiminyan police force”.
If you are so worried about the extremely small chance that you may get sick if you eat your fish on the same dish as meat, or with a fork used for meat….
Then why would you go to a minyan and be around other people. There is a much higher probability that you, or someone who emulates you will become sick.
Quick Comment. Rabbi Yakov Horowitz from Monsey wrote a letter on one of the frum websites that he noticed a minyan taking place indoors. He went on saying how terrible it was from a halochick and illegal point of view. I asked if the police were called and did not receive an answer. Rabbi Nasaniel Kostelitz Shlita from Baltimore paskened publicly then when one Jew is knowingly compromising the health of other Jews by breaking the law, one should call the police. Why aren’t police called? This will stop it!
Why is everyone so worried about minyanim. It’s literally the first thing every person I hear talk about. Why don’t I hear people screaming about the people who don’t wear a mask and gloves in a super market, I can promise you it’s a 1000 times more dangerous to do that then to daven in a socially distanced outdoor minyan. What about a liquor store became essential???(other then the tax revenue the states get from it) same for weed shops. Why don’t I hear people writing op Ed’s about that on VIN?!?! My friend told me he was in a grocery store before Pesach and he was crammed in line with a million other people waiting to pay, and he turned to a couple of men around him and said it’s almost Shkiah let’s daven mincha right here in line because there was enough people around and every person took 10 minutes to check out. So one guy started screaming back “YOUR NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE A MINYAN ITS PEKUACH NEFASHOS”!! How pathetic have we become!!!
AS I wrote in my original post nothing will change until Moshiach comes. Not minyonim, not going to mikva, not going to family for meals, not chusanas, not kiddushim, not vacations etc. etc.etc. Everyone does what works for them. Klal Yisroel has been living with machlokes and chalukai daaois since Moshe Rabanu. For most of them, we can say Elu vailu divrei e-lokim chaim. I say, stop looking at the next guy. Look to see where you can improve. Today is the sanzer Rav’s yartzeit. He used to say when he was a child he thought he can fix the entire world. When he got older he thought he can fix his town. When he was an old man he said at least let me work on myself. Zy”a
Why can’t everybody just mind their own damn business. Live and let live. I’ve been davening with my kids biyechidus since this whole thing started. I don’t obsess over what others do. I honestly don’t give a sh-t. Everyone should stop being a yenta.
This comment is to the very first comment by Sam. I will tell you what’s wrong, Pikuach Nefesh which is min hatorah-“venishmartem moed lenafshoseichem” -that is douche the mitzvah derabonnon of davening with minyan..AND WHAT DOES THE GEMORROH SAY – even one brocho and kol sheleima complete tsfillos done in this way is “”BOTZEIAH BEIRACH NIEITZ HASGEM” –
HASHEM IS DESPIAED AND SCORNS SUCH TEFILLOS- SO YOU THINK YOU ARE BEING FRUM. ! YOU ARW ACTUALKY ROITZCHIM WHOSE TRFILLOS THE AIBERSHTER SCORNS AND DESPOSES OF. SO WAKE UP AND SEE THE REAL OUTXONE OF YOUR KRUM WARPED SEICHEL AND DO TESGYVA AND STOP KILLING INNOCENT BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF OURS!!!!
A minyan is not even a derabonon and a lot of chasidishe rebbis used to daven beyichidus because you could have greater kavuno the reason we daven with minyan is because we want it to be berov am hadras melech Wich the rebono Shel olam doesn’t need when we do it with blood on our hand’s you don’t take a chance when it comes to lives