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To Whom it May Concern
After seeing the letter from a Chosson here’s a letter from a Father of a Kallah.
Sitting in Quarantine under very trying circumstances, I have been made aware of this new Simcha Initiative that you are bringing to the fore. I laud you for it! I was delighted to read about it and happily affixed my signature to the myriad of names already signed on. You see, to me this has particularly hit home. I believe there’s a lot more to do in curbing the extravagance that has become the norm, but this is definitely a good start.
Let me give you a little background about myself and why this is so personal to me. I live in my own home in Brooklyn NY. Boruch Hashem I have been blessed with a lovely family and have what’s considered to be a respectable job with a respectable salary. I work at a law firm in New York City and earn over $200,000 in annual salary. Yet, living and supporting my family day to day, very conservatively (I must add) is not easy. Between full tuition, mortgage payments, car payments, camps, etc. it is quite literally, choking. Nevertheless I am most grateful for what I have, knowing full well how many people would wish to be in my position.
About a year ago we had the zchus of having our oldest daughter get engaged to a wonderful boy from a beautiful family. It was such a happy time. Everyone was all smiles and so excited for the wedding prep, which started almost immediately after the engagement. It took only about two weeks before my personal excitement began to mix with a dose of panic. That dose of panic picked up steam along the way as the reality of what this was going to cost began setting in. Please let me make myself very clear. We are not ostentatious people and mostly live within our means. Nevertheless, from when a child gets engaged till after the last Sheva Brachos, the amount of money that gets spent on the Simcha is simply outrageous. Between the expense of the Vort, gifts, clothing, gowns, music, singers, flowers, makeup artists and hair dressers, plus plus plus, etc. it is enough to put people into serious debt which can take years to pay off. Then there are more children to marry off in quick succession Boruch Hashem. How can anyone manage these expenses? Of course there are those that will say, “Let each person only spend what they can afford and not just follow the masses. Make a Takkana wedding, etc.”
Let’s not kid ourselves here. There is a bar that gets set by the wealthier families in our communities, which keeps getting raised as time goes on. That bar has reached a crescendo by now and must come down. The people making these simchos, even though they can afford them, should have an achrayus to the klal. Just as chazal teach that when one is blessed with material wealth, it is a pikadon from Hashem, which comes along with a responsibility to help the less fortunate by giving tzedaka, so too should making Simchos come with the same responsibility to the rest of the community. Raising the bar of Simchos filters down to every last member of our community in one way or another. It is destroying people, to put it mildly. Where’s the achrayus to the Klal? Three months of spending a hundred, two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars, and more on a wedding, all for a few nights of celebrating, is literally causing crushing debt to people. Is it worth it? Are those young couples any happier? Look around at the young couples who had backyard weddings over the last month and a half. They are just as happy, despite not necessarily having the wedding of their dreams. I’m not advocating backyard weddings, once we get out of this Tzara (may it be soon) but please please, tone it down! If not for your sake, for the sake of your neighbors, your friends, your family, the rest of Klal Yisroel! Let people stand tall and proud when making a simple affordable Simcha. By taking the step and toning down your Simchos, others will follow suit. You can be the one to help someone else avoid stress, hardship and Chas Vshalom worse.
Boruch Hashem my daughter is happily married and we are having lots of Nachas from our young couple, but I say it clearly and unequivocally, the expense was not necessary. It created undue hardship, of which I, someone who makes a comfortable living supposedly, will be paying for for sometime. Why??
I applaud the Simcha Initiative for stepping up to the plate to try to make a difference. I hope people will sign up for this in a big way and even take the achrayus to take things a step further in curbing the unnecessary extravagance when celebrating their Simchos.
May this form of Tzedaka be a Zchus for Klal Yisroel at this very difficult time. May the Cholim amongst us have a speedy Refua Sheleima, and in this Zchus may Hashem remove this Mageifa from our midst speedily. Amen.
Stop lavish gifts and 7 nights of sheva brachos.
Ask the elders from pre WWIi Europe.
Only Shabbos was it made.
It’s an extra expense, nobody wants to show up anyway and it’s blood money gone to waste.
Let’s not sit around waiting fir takanos. Let’s just do it.
So many can’t enjoy the moment we walk our children to the chupah because of the devastating expense.
It’s fairly a crime.
I fully understand where this father is coming from – how is he or I suppose to make a small wedding for our daughters when they see the rest of their class, friends, cousins & neighbors all making simchos on a different level (whether those other people can afford them or not). Once we get out of competitive mode, then there would be no pressure to try to outdo the other simcha that yennem made.
Its all about the expectations. If everyone else is making simple affairs, then there is no pressure to make anything fancy. We need refocusing on what is important, the actual simcha of the chosson & kalla (and the parents) and do away with all the chitzonius.
“The people who make this simchos, even if they can afford them should have an achrayos to the klal.” Why only on weddings? Why is it difference from cars, vacations, clothing, household help, summer homes in the Catskills and winter homes in Florida, Pesach vacations etc. Are you suggesting that someone who works hard and earns $800.000 should have the same wedding etc . than the low income or Kolel family? And why your level of $200.000 is the norm? 80-90% earns much much less than that. Why do you need to copy the million $ chasenes there are thousands in Brooklyn as low as $6.000 and up. Most chasenes in Lakewood are in the 15.000 range. You are clearly not spending on super luxury cars, vacations, homes etc. Why on Chasenes? Maybe the REAL issue here that we dont know how to teach our children how to live. Unfortunately its a much bigger problem than the fcy chasenes. Most of the divorces and Sholem Bayis problems start with a Fcy chasene. When evrything is about ME and I. Every one who earns 10 times more than I do and every one who earns a small % what I do have to come to MY level. When kids see this. ……
Then we teach our sons and daughters to respect parents and their wallets.
We teach derech eretz and not to follow others. That should come before alephbeis. Good it does to teach academic Torah and not apply its principles. We do not cater to our daughters/sons whims and appetites.
We need a few good kuds and the rest will follow suit.
You don’t need 2 fress fests__^ Smorg & a main. Serve cookies at the smorg along with seltzer, and a nuclear family main ONLY…
And who says you need a large overly expensive wedding it’s only the new wealthy who got it from family
I’ve been to weddings of old money and many don’t spend it like yjis
Where’s kibud av and aym ?
Instead this generation of parents are kissing up to their kids.
What a chutzpah. Spoiled brats. Now put THAT on those ridiculous resumes along with the phony photos.
My uncle is one of those rich guys who gives close to a million dollars a year to tzdaka. Not one Rav or Rosh Hayeshiva told him you are giving too much others will be jealous.
Is the cost of weeding simply ” the wedding itself”
How about two shaitles? 6k (if cheap)
Pots dishes pans : (3K)
Setting up apartment with furniture (10K) Inlcudes lines which can cost (1K)
Lichter (2K) even a cheap one
Jewlery and gifts for (choson) 5K
Wedding gown plus gowns/ suits & hats for family (5K)
This is just few of the expenses. How does cutting down a few guests at a wedding make such a dent?
Lol hakavod to the author of this article.
Here is an excerpt from an article by Professor Hershy H Friedman:
“…Given that there is nothing wrong with wealth per se or with enjoying the permitted pleasures of this world, this paper will highlight three serious negative effects of flaunting wealth: (1) It makes one conspicuous and arouses the envy of others, including enemies of the Jewish people, (2) it can cause people who are not very wealthy to become ashamed of their lack of means, and (3) it can make one arrogant.
Arousing the Envy of Others
During the seven-year famine that afflicted the world, Jacob told his sons (Genesis 42:1): “Why do you make yourselves so conspicuous?” The Talmud (Babylonian Talmud, Taanis 10b) interprets this verse as follows: “Jacob said to his sons, ‘Do not show yourselves to be sated either before Esau or Ishmael in order that you do not arouse their envy against you.'” This would seem to suggest that the Jewish people have to be careful about arousing the jealousy of the gentile nations that surround them. However, the Talmud uses this verse to derive the law that if a Jew travels from a town where the populace is not fasting to a town where the inhabitants are fasting, he should fast with them. Even if he inadvertently eats (or is a sick person who is permitted to eat), he should still not eat in public. This implies that the prohibition against “making oneself conspicuous” applies to arousing the envy of Jews as well as gentiles…”
Finally, What a wonderful idea. Win win all around.
I think there is room to rethink the entire wedding event or to reinvent it altogether. After all, we have already cut down on weddings in a big way, and I don’t see how cutting a few guests will help much. I propose the following: Have the chupah followed by a gala reception and a dance for all in attendance. That means forget about the chosson / kallah pics until later. Most people only dance once and rush out after the meal. A very small dinner, maybe two courses, to follow for grandparents, parents, siblings, nieces and nephews.
What took us so long ?
This can actually help Klal Yisroel and save so many people
Very true. Hopefully we can all be zocheh to be happy with our lot and bring down the level of spending on all the pressures of being part of the Jones
Wow this is so true We must stop with the huge weddings.
To the writer of this letter Very impressed that you bore your soul to bring an important issue to light.
I’m sure you thought you were doing financially well until you made your first wedding and therefore tried to keep up with what you thought people expected of you .
To all those who said why does he have to do what others do … The social pressure is hard to overcome , it tends to over power ones judgment .
By everyone as a group lowering the bar it can change the way we make and enjoy simchos
Which is not to say not to make and enjoy . For sure make beautiful enjoyable simchos !! But make them simchadik and forget about all the superficial trappings .
May we all be zoche to to make many More simchos in good health
This initiative is great if it works
The only way it will work is if each community does it . Not many people are willing to be the first to take the plunge . Community’s have to decide to do it together.
I particularly like that the rabbanim gave us suggestions not demands of takanos.
So your writing to complain that your rich friends shouldn’t do something because you can’t do it? All under the banner of kedodhim tehu, as far as i know that is a mitzva for the individual on himself. v’ahavta l’rai’acha is how your supposed to deal with rich friends and maybe also lo sachmod
So your writing to complain that your rich friends shouldn’t do something because you can’t do it? All under the banner of kedodhim tehu, as far as i know that is a mitzva for the individual on himself. v’ahavta l’rai’acha is how your supposed to deal with rich friends and maybe also lo sachmod
Backk in 2000-2001 a set of takonos was issued by the prestigious rabonim. It icluded
1. Either a L’chaim or a Vort
2. Maximum 400 people.
3. No more than 4 piece band.
4. The undersigned will not attend a wedding if these conditions are not met.
Since # 4 was not upheld 1-3 plus what I have not mentioned due to my lack of memory was also not upheld.
Yidden have an obligation not arouse jealousy. See my earlier post, and read the rest of Prof. Friedman’s article “The Simple Life, the Case Against Ostentation in Jewish Law”
Hope the initiative works. Does anybody know how to be meshtatef to the initiative?
We’ve made weddings for our children-we set a budget-we set a wedding list and we stuck to it. We had a wonderful Choson and Kallah who understood that this was not a community show-it was a Simcha to start their lives-and we did not have to put our own lives in a financial nightmare.
Weddings today are more like conferences-we actually had a wedding vendor tell us he wouldn’t even speak with us unless we had a minimum of 500 guests. Meshugah!!!! So, to the father who makes 200,000.00 a year, if you couldn’t set the tone of a reasonable, balabatish wedding with your children and inlaws then you deserve to go into debt. By the way having Sheva Brochos every single night with lavish dinners-is the stupidest thing in the world-and like stupid little children we follow what other people do….its not necessary.
When I became engaged (1970’s) my parents had my future inlaws over for a L’Chiam-when did the big party “Vort” start happening? and why?Then there is the “gift giving ceremony” Kallah gets a ring, chosson gets a watch, kallah gets pearls or a diamond watch or diamond earrings and the choson gets Seforim- Huh? why? The kallah gets an engagement ring..done. oh wait I forgot about the Yichud room present-that’s another diamond.One more thing before I go….lets talk about make-up artists-they make the kallah, mother, mother in law, sisters, sisters in law and anyone else they can convince to do makeup like vaudeville actresses-they look awful and fake. Bring back the heartfelt Simcha that’s real-not the show.
I am a proud NON-signer of this misguided initiative. Each time it comes up I can’t believe you have rabbonim who signed on to this. I b”h made a few a chasunos. I had to borrow for all of them and I’m still paying it off. Then you ask why I am against this. There are two main reasons. one, like others before me wrote, “extravagant” chasunos is part of a larger problem. You have vacations, clothing people buy, expensive food items, leased cars, the list is long and whatever I write here there will be someone that will say either, “but I don’t do x, y or z” or they will justify why they do x, y, or z and this includes making a wedding. Two, The initiative writes no elaborate vorts. Who defines the word elaborate. In addition, why do you the whole vort thing make a lechayim with the parents and chosson kallah. Naturally, you start inviting the whole mispacha and friends you need a hall and music and pictures and a new dress Oh I digress. They write no more then 250 guests. Diid these rabonim ever make a wedding?? I don’t have such a large family I never had to invite more than 125 couples but the halls have minimums 125 couples, 150 couples. Some halls nickel and dime you if you take the 125 couples. One of my weddings it came out cheaper to go with 150 then to go with 125 and pay for all the extras; like $125 fee to make a white stage for the kallah. The letter writer writes about toning down the wedding this is very vauge. If you look at the clips of the weddings the last few weeks you see the woman wearing gowns, there is music, pictures and flowers the only thing missing is the hall. In addition, they make it sound like a wedding today is an anomaly. This is simply not true My parents got married 60 years ago in a hall, with pictures, (no video) 6 piece band (which was the norm till about 20 years ago.) and flowers. The only thing really different today is today its more RA RA and much less informal.but not in monetary value. My final point is, groceries cost money, buying shoes cost money sending your kids to yeshiva cost money and so does making a wedding. I would sign an initiative if it was more concrete and realistic and included the ones producing the simcha like the hall, photgrapher, musician, singer etc. etc. I must end now I must go to my third job my son in law is waiting for his check.
My uncle is a rich man who gives close to a million dollars to zedaka a year. He told me that he never had a rosh Hayeshiva or a Rov tell him “you are giving too much money ” what will the less rich people do? Bottom line you have to do what you can afford.
you can sign up to support the initiative at simchainitiative.com
“Deserve to go into debt”?? How’s that for some pompousness? Every situation is different. Do not be the judge. The letter writer has expressed himself very well. We can all relate to this on one level or another. Why do people have this innate need to read something and then figure out how to be ipcha mistabra??
I agree that the ‘simchas’ have gotten way out of hand. I believe our rabbonim should lead the way by making simple weddings, without lavish meals, large and noisy bands, photographers and videos, etc.
With out the rabbonim coming out against the growing disgust of what is called a ‘simcha’, there will NOT be any change.
this father with thw 200.000 salary is the main trouble maker not the billioners. People with much lower incomes will try to do the same and will go broke. No one tryes to outdo the REAL bilioners. People understand and except that. Rebbe mechabed ashirim. (not upper middle class) if he ddonates 180.00 to the hatzoleh and pays 50-100.000 for a chaseneh people will try to copy him not the billioner who just gave a million oe more to this and that cause. Very few people are jelaous on billioners. They get jelous a meshugeners who build a house they cant afford or make a chasseneh they cant afford. The Chasseneh is much worse than the house since he is training/prepering his child for much more trouble later.
My son called me and told me he wants to get married. I asked him a simple question.
Can you support a wife and a family at this point in your life?
His answer was no.
I told him to get to work and save his money.
He said to me,but Dad.
I told him. I don’t want you to be a poor schmendric.
As a matter of fact I don’t want to be a poor retired schmendric.
That was the end of the conversation.
If you want the kallah, you make sure you have a parnassah before you go to get married.
That’s what we should be telling our children.
Anything else is child abuse.
Fathers and Mothers of kallahs should insist that chosen has pasnassah before marriage.
As for weddings..honey cake and schnapps should do it.
Buy her a ring get the Rabbi, go home say sh’ hechiyanu and call it a day.
The other good part about the Corona is that it forced the cancelation of a lame boring event that we are forced to endure called the yeshiva dinner that usually takes place during seferia.
Please don’t insult my intelligence by saying kovod hatorah, its a colossal waste of time and money and no one is interested attending anyway, they are forced to attend by the tuition committee.
I am waiting for a similar letter from a yeshiva administer or tuition / dinner committee
Yes. Good point I will like to donate money does anyone know where I can get a link to put my credit card?
Finally someone stepped up to the plate to say something & TRYING to do something for the klal! lets make simchos great & normal again! amazing to see now chassidis of ger came out making takonos for weddings as well!!!
I would love to hear from a Rebbes/Rovs perspective as well they are dealing with their Talmudim/Shul Members all day and they see first hand what they are going through
Great article
I just read all the comments. I’m a low key individual but have been blessed with an incredible income. No one knows me as being wealthy because I keep it secret. About thirty years ago I inherited about 40 million dollars from an uncle who had no children and was not even frum. He gave it up after the Holocaust. I hear people talking about money all the time and always say if they only knew who was in front of them. I made simple normal weddings for my four kids and they have no clue of the extend of money I have. It’s a weird feeling. My own wife has no clue and nebech tries to bargain down prices on various things. I get a kick out of it. But I do feel bad for the many who are struggling financially with large families. I believe this virus is a blessing for struggling parents.
IF WE WERE ABLE TO HEAR THE BAT KOL NOW! WE WOULD HEAR THE BAT KOL SAY:
ALL YESHIVAS ARE CLOSED,ALL JEWISH SCHOOLS ARE CLOSED ,ALL KOLLES ARE CLOSED ,ALL SEMINARIES ARE CLOSED ,ALL SHULS ARE CLOSED,AND NO ONE IS OFFERING ANY ADVICE HOW TO GET THEM ALL OPENED.HOW EVER WE ARE GIVING SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH ADVICE HOW TO SAVE MONEY IN MAKING WEDDINGS.ALMOST EVERY JEWISH WEB.AND ALMOST EVERY JEWISH NEWSPAPERS HAS FULL PAGE AD HOW TO SAVE MONEY ON WEDDINGS.MAY HASHEM HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US AND SEND REFUAHA TO ALL THE SICK PEOPLE, AND REMOVE THIS PLAQUE FROM US, AND SEND MESHIACH NOW.
What this initiative will accomplish is to give ‘cover’ to people who are too self-conscious to be up front on what they can reasonably spend or do not have the courage to face the mechutanim. It is time that people grow up and face the world without someone to hold their hands. If one is afraid that taking a stand might break the shidduch; there are two choices: realize that you are desperate for this zivug and sell your soul or have the shadchan tell the other side after 3rd 4th date lifestyle is different than theirs and what you are prepard to do if the shidduch continues.