NEW YORK (VINnews) — New York doctors and nurses outraged by the criticism being aired online and in the media about the way they are treating COVID-19 patients have responded angrily, claiming that their is no justification to the claims about their treatment and that they are putting their lives on the line to try and save as many people as they can.
In particular medical staff took issue with the following video aired by Sara, a nurse practitioner who is not working with COVID-19 patients and who described what she had heard from a friend who is working in NY hospitals but did not want to be revealed.
In the video Sara claims that doctors and nurses are “neglecting patients” and “leaving them to rot and die”, and not using the right medications or PPE equipment which would prevent more infection.
Sara’s clip unleashed a large amount of responses. An ICU doctor refuted her arguments one by one:
Rebecca, an ICU nurse from New York also responded to Sara’s allegations, stating that even though initially some patients were not getting CPAP and BIPAP, this was because there was not enough knowledge of the disease and it was thought that ventilators could save lives in most cases. When it became apparent that patients required other measures these were implemented.
Enough of this BS risking lives everyone I know in my Neighborhood Crown Heights Brooklyn has Covid it was exposed to it heavily it’s a mild flu for 95% of younger people.
chances are that all of the medical staff were already exposed and exhibited only mild symptoms and there is no great risk currently for them to work in hospital.
If It wasn’t nearly impossible to get a job working in a hospital We would not have this problem.
You don’t need four years of school to change a patient’s diaper.
“Its a mild flu” in your “Neighborhood Crown Heights,Brooklyn” can you name a single person you personally know who died from a “MILD FLU” in the last 2 years?. None ZERO. I can name 30 in ” your neighborhood” frumme Yiden who died in 3 weeks. You sound worst the Elokistin (not to be confused with the Meshiachisten) in 770. They claim the the Rebbe is not Moshiach but G-D. You sound like Trump is your new G-D Whatever he says its your religion.
A mild flu for 95% OF YOUNGER PEOPLE. For those who have a hard time reading a full sentence.
(This point was made to refute the self sacrifice claims of young nurses)
I am not blind to the death from Covid my own grandfather died 4 weeks ago, Yes he had Covid, yes he was in his 90s, but he died of neglect he died of hunger, he died from lack of basic supplements he died with no one to advocate for him.. this is not only my family’s story this is the story being told by many families who’s loved ones passed and by many who survived the Murders scene of the NYC hospitals..
Mimonedies leading the pact..
I fully understand that the Rebbe is alive, some other chasidim have similar claims. This one is news to me. Are you telling us all those people who died in the last 4 weeks in Crown Heigts are all ALIVE and well . Its a HOAX? A MILD FLU? Some of the best known and most respected Chabad names? In fact someone told me more Shluchim died in 2 months than in 20 years combined. Is that true ?
What I am simply saying, 75% of the people did not need to die! Yes everything is from haven.
But the absolute lack of leadership lack of ethics, greed and total neglect in theses useless scum of the earth NYC hospitals killed thousands of patients and please G-D there will be justice one day!
unfortunately this is the reason why NYC is leading the wold in Covid deaths.
There is nothing special about NYC air that makes Covid more contagious here.
The media and Kawaki political fear mongers are not helping the cause, it’s simply not as bad as they are making it to be eat healthy, exercise, and take some basic supplements build you immune System and your in good hands..
agreed there should be an investigation. Nazi were on front line fool time too if somebody has chosen to hurt people instead treating them that needs another Nurnberg trial
“ You don’t need four years of school to change a patient’s diaper.”
Hands down one of the stupidest things I’ve read. You sir/madam….are a moron.
What I mean to say is…
There is no reason this country has a shortage of medical professional and yet turns down hundreds of thousands of medical school applications every year.
Other then a corrupt medical system who profits off overloaded and understaffed hospitals.. you don’t need to be a Genius to study medicine!
I had a family member who experienced this live. ( not covid related stay but the strain was obvious) Nurses can give any excuses they want. There is gross incompetence and they are lazy . Nobody talks to each other , wrong meds were administered. When asked which meds can I take to reduce pain the response Was, I don’t know whatever we have you can get. They were nasty lazy and stupider than stupid. They have total disregard for human life. And it was multiple nurses
I witnessed this so nobody here has the Nerve to open those fat mouth and dispute this bec the failing nyt says different. Unless you yourself experienced nice nurses you have no opinion and shut your mouth .
Ps I am sure there are a few nice ones but overall #notmyhero’s
Coming from a guy who called this a flu be gone by April etc. no wonder everybody thinks and acts the opposite you say. Many orthodox are openly thanking the nurses, Hatzolah and other frontline workers. All Jewish organisations, officials etc publicly thanked the nurses. If this is you Stick to take away attention from the failings of Trump ? It wont work. Blame the nurses for spreading the virus?
You dummy , hatzaolh and nurses in one sentence? Hatzaloh are tzadkim . Nurses are wicked and ruthless . Maybe they are thanking them to kiss up and hope tyhey help us more. Its for PR. In reality they are low lifes.
I am not blaming nurses for spreading viruses. I am saying that they are careless, ruthless, low lives . They treat you like a piece of flesh not worth human respect. Unless you were in a hospital you need to shut your mouth for once. I saw and heard about it from a pateint. You are a liar
You are a very sick and disturbed person.
Archy, What hospital are you referring to? I have friends and family members who are nurses, and I’ve been hospitalized several times and I find your claims hard to believe. From my experience they are among the kindest hard working people that I know. Being human, they do make mistakes from time to time, butmore often they correct doctors mistakes.
Could your attitude have been the problem?
I will not discolcose the hoisptal for privacy reasons. I was only in there for a short period of time while my family member was there for an extended period. My family member is very sweet and kind not the type you’d ever want to act nasty too.
You wrote, “I’ve been hospitalized several times” Was this during covid-19? Was it now or under less stressful times? The disucsion is if now under pressure they are still nice. Don’t forget teh nurses are now younger and less experienced, often shipped in fort he crisis and staying/ freeloading off FEMA hotels
Under normal circumstances I can say its mixed results. Miamondies is known to have nurses who are animals (i have a fam meber who died there due to malpractice. The hospital admitted it) . Other hospitals have been nicer and a much more pleasant.
It all depends which hospital you’re talking about, A few years ago I had done the same procedure in 2 hospitals 5 weeks apart, the difference between the 2 were like from a third world country and a modern country one was Mt. Sinai the other was Cornell you could figure out yourself which one was like the third world country. I was a stem cell donor.
Correct but currently the hospital is only minor. They are nasty. what you experienced a few years ago doesn’t affect now. I’ll just say my family member was in a middle rated hospital. this wasn’t the first time but it was the nastiest by far.
And like I said , the nurses now are FEMA freeloaders
What a sick person.
Another brilliant gem from Retarded Archy
we need to hear from the families of the patients who were niftar because of the “neglect” in the NY hospitals. patients weren’t given anything to dring or eat “before” they were put on respirators and got worse from non-treatment. patients who were IGNORED when requesting help because the staff was lazy to change their masks & outfits when walking into a room
You just heard from the family of a patient who BH was not there for covid (did test positve though). My family member suffered from neglect and was not given the right treatment or meds. Yes the patient was ignored as well
Actually there were two NYC hospitals that were repeatedly named as giving not subpar care but outright neglect by patients calling and begging to be taken home. That being said Archy, it’s is very unfair to lump ALL nurses into the neglectful, uncaring and low life category. Although, there were some or even many, that doesn’t give the right to call them ALL out as terrible. In addition, I can factually tell you of outstanding nurses at even those hospitals that were called out. Arch, don’t be an idiot like DeBlasio and lumping people into one pot (“I warn the Jews”) and say “nurses are low lives”.
BTW, Mr Cuomo is at fault. In March he snuck in an executive order making sure that no COVID 18 neglect cases can be tried or sued. So the Governor has blood on his hands, since they knew that there is no recourse against them.
I think I was clear in saying “some nurses” are good and they are heros. I still say the majorty are the opposite and complete animals.
The point I’d make is just because someone is a nurse doesn’t make them a hero. They need to be a compassionate nurse or they are as good as the lazy EMS 9/11 responders which is why hatzalh was founded
Have you met a “majorty” of the nurses in this country? Of course not, but you condemn most of them based on one experience. If that is the way that it works then people should believe that all frum yidden are retarded just because you are. . .
I am sure Hitler thought some Jews were good too.
I can believe negligence, I can believe malpractice. But this nurse (has anyone verified that she actually is one?) is claiming intentional murder. A conspiracy. I wonder who might have hired this actress to come out with this report and what their real agenda is?
Look at COL and listen to a patients (Holocaust survivor) first hand testimony of intentional abuse. Murder out right? no but this 95 yr old man was slapped and told he was lazy .
Look up her Facebook profile. It seems that Sara is an anti-vaxxer… nuff said..
@manny extremely foolish comment. Its perfectly fine to be an anti vaxxer
Studies conducted on unicorns prove you right.
Huge: your comment tells me you’re also from that anti-vaxx group. Tell us, did you burn a 5G antenna yet? Anti-vaxxer are generally delusional conspiracy theorists and “huge” Imbeciles. Cannot be trusted about such matters.
@manny think before u talk. Hagoen Maran R Shmuel Kamenetzky is an anti vaxxer. There are two sides to the matter – like every valid argument – and everyone has the right to hold like any of those sides.
To huge: Rabbi Kamenetzky has no authority here. He holds things based on what some quacks around him tell him. Don’t start with “daas Torah” we all know what happened with daas Torah and the corona virus.
And I have zero respect for his opinion about that. Why would anyone listen to a Rabbi with no medical training talking about vaccines? How stupid are people? Does no one take personal responsibility for things and not seek out experts in the appropriate fields to get advice from, or does your brain fall out of your head because a Rabbi gave his personal opinion about a matter that he most likely is very wrong about.
What is anti-vaxer? Like a Meshiachist?
Yes like meshuachistim, similarly delusional and equally obnoxious.
Lawyers make the world safe
This doc sounds like such a dope.
“Nurses can give any excuses they want. There is gross incompetence and they are lazy.”
I think that you and all those who are like minded should start publicly calling them out on this in public spaces. Next time you see a doctor or nurse start shouting at them that they are murderers either willfully or out of incompetence or out of laziness… Of course you must not discriminate and you must publicly shame all the frum nurses and doctors for being murderers and lazy and incompetent as well as keeping quiet about the fact that their colleagues are also all lazy and incompetent. And then start a whole movement where you form groups to go out and spit and curse all the doctors and nurses. This is just what this country needs right now, this will clearly motivate them to become either better or to kill themselves. And if they kill themselves it’ll be fine because you and your ilk without any medical training will be completely capable to take over the medical system- you don’t need 4 years of medical school to change diapers. You should definitely do this and I very much look forward to the response you get. Hatzlacha rabba
You idiot. Frum nurses know about the value of life and act like a menstech. non frum are the aniamls. Thats the beauty of frum jews. Don’t believe me? Why do you think hatzklah is better than 911?
What a silly comment. Now its racism to say that frum jews value life? Are you crazy?
Bottom line I was there and I saw it. you weren’t so you have no mouth to talk
“You idiot.” real mature
“Frum nurses know about the value of life and act like a menstech. non frum are the aniamls.” Animals- real nice, you really have a way with words. Too bad Hashem made goyim. The frum doctors and nurses have a responsibility to whistle blow as well as prevent the goyim from causing other jews in to die- isur of lo samod.
“Thats the beauty of frum jews. Don’t believe me? Why do you think hatzklah is better than 911?” Complete nonsensical non-sequitor
“What a silly comment.” Real mature
“Now its racism to say that frum jews value life?” This comment makes zero sense
“Are you crazy?” I sure hope you think I’m crazy that would be the nicest complement ever for me.
“Bottom line I was there and I saw it. you weren’t so you have no mouth to talk” Based on your rambling and terrible writing I’d say you have no brain to talk or write
gain please explain why hatzalhh was founded and is needed today? Why not call 9/11?
Of course frum people value life more.
You also fail to rationalize how you can talk if you did not see the callousness while i did
Hmm? So how do you explain that 40% of the nurses in Jerusalem are Muslims and less people died in Entire State of Israel (Many,many muslim nurses) than in Boro Park.
The culture in Israel may be different than in the USA. I can only explain what i saw and heard about in the USA
coming from a guy who incited to murder by davening with a minyan against Rabbis and Doctors orders. HM? Maybe if all of them stayed home as they were told, the nurses could have done better? Maybe build some Hospitals like the Soros type reform Jews did. Maimonides, Beth Israel, Mt Sinai??? Instead of million $ chasenes. You and your types are an embarrassment to Judaism. Instead of building Hospitals, training nurses, etc are ignoring the orders of the Rabbis,Govts and doctors, flooding Hospitals and now blaming the Doctors and nurses who saved their lives, Shame on you.
Coming from a guy who incited to murder by davening with a minyan against Rabbis and Doctors orders.
1) My rabbi permitted it
2) My dr permitted it
3) the CDC permitted it.
I wore a mask, stood 100 feet away and only outdoors never touching anyon’s germs. A 0% thats ZERO percent risk.
Now lets prove that I am right. Lets see how many sick people are there now from “porch minyanim? I think also 0. have you meet anyone new sick since we started social distnace minyanim.
Fake murder and your screaming bloody murders is nosense and a lie. Total stupidity far removed from the truth. But please do rpovide insight how my actions were murderours?
By the way if you went to the grocery store, had a virus, and touched or breathed on a tomato which the next guy took , you infected him. (yes it was essential to get that tamoto but you infected him)
On 3/15/2020 if you had a Rabbi permitting a minyan you should have been smarter and not listened to him as every expert in this field was saying to be careful. If a doctor permitted a minyan on that day, please share his name so we should know to avoid him. The CDC definitely did not permit them as they just gave recommendations, such as engaging in serious social distancing…. But you the sick and twisted person and a rodef calling nurses evil, on 3/15/2020 posted this (you even proudly state you shook hands):
Educated Archy March 15, 2020 12:56 am at 12:56 am
Nope sorry I went to shul shook hands and acted normal. I did use extra soup. We need not fall for this super hyper paranoid society. There are some good olde fashion drs that laugh at all this and say the world has gone mad.
I know a few frum, non-frum, and non-jewish nurses. Overall they are all dedicated and caring people trying to do their best. Medicine is complicated and the doctors determine the actual treatments and in many cases the nurses without the necessary training form conclusions about what the proper care should have been, but they are just not viewing the situation through the same lens the doctor has with his education and experience. Good nurses know to defer to the doctors in treatment. If they have an issue they speak up and often the doctor will be willing to explain why they made their decision.
Sara is totally right…those other doctors trying to say that there is no neglect sound like fools. There is a lot of neglect in ny hospitals and it is NOT okay.
“Its not ok” So do something instead of complaining nonsense. Let the frumme women become nurses. problem solved. Yahhh sureeee after the $266.000 wedding they will work?
You already outer yourself as an anti-vaxxer. That means that your thoughts are irrational and based on illogical inferences and conclusions.
@manny very mature comment. Im actually not an anti vaxxer…but I believe that it is a valid argument and they are entiteled to hold that.
@huge if you hold they have a valid argument you are an anti-Vaxxer for all intents and purposes. The facts That the arguments of the anti vaxxer clowns overwhelmingly point to their delusion and paranoia. No amount of reasoning can help somebody afflicted with the craze. It’s not an individual belief, but a type of person…
@manny @honest There is something called emunas chachamim – believe and trust our gedolim. They have special siyata dishmaya.
Read, Hagaon Harav Nachum Eliezer Rabinovitch ztl’s essay on what emuans chachamim is. It is very different than your ignorant and irresponsible definition.
Any experience outside of covid eta doesn’t count. Because there’s always family members watching so the nurses behave. We’re talking now during covid where no visitors are allowed even spouses and the patients suffer and die alone. A lot of them because of neglect. I don’t have first hand experience with this BH but I absolutely believe it
A friend of mine whose father died in Maimonides hospital in Brooklyn, showed me numerous texts from his father, that he’s dying from hunger and the nurses are ignoring him. He died a day after the last text.
Why is everyone so scared to say that the hospital on 10th avenue in boro park is neglecting their covid19 patients that enter the ICU? My uncle was there and he wasn’t given any food for 5 days. His wife and children were not allowed to visit or talk to him. I don’t care how big of an “askan” the Executive Vice President of that hospital is. The fact is, people who enter there with Coronavirus come out in body bags. The nurses in the ICU are cowards. Many should be charged with murder.
Again please explain why hatzalhh was founded and is needed today? Why not call 9/11?
Of course frum people value life more.
You also fail to rationalize how you can talk if you did not see the callous ness while i did
Hatzalah was founded primarily to provide EMS service to yiddish speaking people.
Then they decided to make it free to the user.
Then they decided the marketing ability to get it approved would be to provide faster response times by having indivduals respond to calls from their personal car to triage a patient until an ambulance arrived.
but your revisionist history is cute.
Fake news
Archy Hatzoloh has many malpractice lawsuits every year. You wouldn’t believe the numbers. You can’t satisfy all the people all the time.
Hatzalah mainly exists because the city EMS services are not able to match their response time so when someone has a heart attack or other medical emergency, where time matters, hatzalah saves lives. It is not because they provide better care or value life more, just they are there quicker which is the number one determinant in outcomes from a heart attack.
That is their job you want to be a nurse do your work. Some of them very lazy looking only for pay check.
Before the covid19 crisis, i sat with a fam member daily in a local hospital in the ICU for a few weeks and then in a regular room for another week or so. The nurses did not extend themselves or go out of their way to help. They did their job. Most were not especially friendly either and most of the time we felt like we had to be in their good graces and that they were doing us a favor (the patient was not demanding or needy). When the patient was transferred about 1.5 hours away there was a remarkeable change of staff behavior. They were super friendly and forthcoming. I believe there is some truth in where a commenter here says we are kissing up to the local hosp as PR). They can do better with better training and oversight!
the neglect is part of this mageifah…this is a tekufah of ligit shaas din. We all gotta do teshuvah and unite. All the best
U guys are a bunch of retards yes there are some dumb nurses but do you realize the sacrifice some make just to go to work some are staying in RVs or hotels and cant be with their family because they got sick on the job i personally know a frum nurse who does her 12 hour shift 3 times a week and then goes to the hospital every other day to go around check on the frum patients and calls the family with them instead you just attack all nurses i agree and she agrees that some are dumb but you dont understand the situation and fyi those nurses that came in are travel nurses who are actually quiet good and no they dont spend 4 yrs learning to change diapers and they reject people from med school bec they are too dumb (probably like retarded archy) and btw they honestly couldnt care less about you honoring them just dont throw them all under the bus
Gosh, we have become a community of Epistemic Dissidents.
1. No visitors policy is mandated. As a physician, I find it cruel; but I well understand that it is done to stop the spread of the disease. That being said, it was and is inhumane.
2. For hospitals with limited PPE in the initial stages of the epidemic, nurses HAD to limit exposure to an individual patient because the risk of cross contamination were great- as well as the risks of their getting disease.
3. “The hospital on 10th Ave” was probably the best hospital in Brooklyn to be in during this plague. And because of the negligence of the Boro Park frum community in March, the numbers were overwhelming. For your own sake, please google disease spread in late March/Early April within 11219 and 11230. Learn of the self-inflicted damage we did to ourselves.
Please be honest with yourselves and more thought out in your comments. There is certainly room for criticism in certain actions and policies of individual hospitals. But unless you were there in March and April- as opposed to with your family during Pesach- as well as seeing the sheer numbers of medical survivors, as a community we need to figure out how to communicate our frustration than irrationally lashing out at nurses.
There was definitely a mismanagement by our terrible mayor and govenor they should’ve been better prepared and done a better job managing the hospitals
Agree that DeBlasio is a moron.
But it was Trump’s job; not Cuomo’s.
CDC, procurement, intelligence; this is all public policy. But from DJT we got misinformation and lack of clarity. Zero leadership. On March 13, he said we would all have tests by the end of the week. At some point he suggests Chloroquine. Another time he suggests disinfectant and UV light. Just yesterday, he says he will disband the Covid commission- and then backtracks. His performance has been that of inconsistency and lack of clarity.
It is ultimately his job to defend this nation against enemies seen and unseen.
More than 70000 americans later, he has failed.
President Trump blames Obama for not being prepared to treat Covid patients. He refuses to accept any responsibility for this debacle.
Archy Hatzoloh has many malpractice lawsuits every year. You wouldn’t believe the numbers. You can’t satisfy all the people all the time.
Do you all think it’s coincidental that as the stories of abuse and neglect increased, the death rate decreased??
Why haven’t we heard groups of diabetics, cancer or HIV patients or their families telling so many stories of abuse/neglect???
When in history did we have so many nurses and yes even physicians telling stories of abuse???
Why weren’t family members EVEN IN FULL HAZ-MAT SUITS allowed to visit??
Wake up yidden?? We are עם חכם ונבון
I saw two saying stories of neglect. One a nurse who has a friend and then she goes on to make a bunch of claims that are not valid (e.g. her comments about ventilation and medicines are not for her to decide what is appropriate). The other a nurse in Lincoln hospital, probably one of the worst hospitals in the city, not staffed by many who could get a job someplace better. That they are incompetent there does not surprise me and likely has nothing to do with COVID-19.
The issue her is absolutely not the doctors or any healthcare provider. it’s our State leadership for not preparing right and not taking responsibility for their actions they had 1000s of hospital beds to be able to provide better service and they rejected it. the idea that family members could not be with patience that’s what killed them.
If you want to be a anti vaxxer for yourself and/or your offspring that’s your opinion and for you to decide. But why did they claim it’s for religious reasons? Who made that up and when and where did that come from.
@honest @manny Please do not post anything that would be qualified as kfirah/clearly against the torah. Both of ur comments before were terribly foolish and unintelligent and are definitely against the torah. No such thing as daas torah?? No such thing as emunas chachamim?? Are u guys completely insane?? All the best
@huge. Daas Torah is a relatively new invention by the yeshiva world. Until almost recently there was only Torah, so what’s this new term daas totah? If it’s a matter
@huge. Comment got cut off. Emunas chachamim means in belief in their ability to arrive at Halacha l’maaseh in “Torah”. daas Torah Implies that th eddy have the ability to insight beyond Torah. And that is a new invention.
@manny @honest It is known that gedolim from previous generations have said that the torah hakdosha includes EVERYTHING and ALL knowledge on EVERYTHING can be learnt out from torah. A gadols job is to be moreh the derecho on EVERYTHING and we must listen to EVERYTHING that they say.
Whether or not in prior generations this was said, that is all nice and good. Unfortunately as is clearly evident in dealing with COVID-19 there is no gadol today who has achieved this exalted level of being a daas torah. So, it would be incredibly foolish for you or anyone else to suggest that anyone should listen to them unquestionably when they are talking about matters which they clearly don’t understand. How about go to your rabbi for tax advice? How stupid are you and how dumb would a rabbi be to give you such? But, when it comes to an epidemic, medical, and scientific matters which they know less than people who spend extensive time in those fields, you suddenly believe this moronic concept that somehow they know better about these things? It is just incredulous and reflective of a personality that is so cowed into being able to think critically or take any responsibility for your actions. Of course, when you don’t know better you and you don’t know who else to turn to, you should probably listen to your Rabbi, but there were plenty of experts to listen to here and you choose to not listen to those who know. Even shulchan aruch requires you to listen to doctors, yet, and this is where it is really incredulous, there were Rabbonim, who apparently went against halacha and decided they know better than the experts.
The Rambam was probably the greatest “gadol” of all rishonim. Nobody would disagree and say that he missed something in the Torah, yet his medical and scientific knowledge came from studying the works of scientists and medical works. Why couldn’t he find that stuff in the Torah? In fact, the Rambam writes that in questions of science we follow contemporary scientific view as chazal were not scientists. Chazals greatness is in their exceptional piety and in their absolute transmission of the oral law. It is In that area that we have Unequivocal emunas chachamim.
@honest @manny Yes there is something called emunas chachamim and that applies to EVERYTHING as toras IS EVERYTHING! If u have a problem listening and respecting chachamim than work on it – but don’t go around posting kefirah. All the best
You are the one posting kefira. Such a concept is against the Torah. The Torah and shulchan aruch concurs, that medical matters are in the hands of doctors. That you would suggest Rabbonim can pasken otherwise because they think they understand medicine via learning torah, is absolute garbage and stupidity. It is clearly some new-age nonsense based on non-jewish concepts of infallibility by religious leaders.
@honest @manny The biggest kefirah possible is to go and proclaim that someone else that is really saying whats right is saying kefirah. All the best
@manny Im sorry to hear that you never got to meet or have a shaychus with any of the gedolim of our generation…but baruch hashem baruch hashem I am zocheh to personally know a few of them. The gemarah says that the gadol of EACH generation should be moreh the derecho for his generation. So not only are u spewing kefirah but ur ALSO arguing against a mefurashe gemarah. All the best
@huge I’m sorry you got your facts about me wrong. I have a very personal connection to many of the gedolom today (including real gedolim not yet discovered by the Yated, hamodia and aguda). Can you cite the gemorah you quote? You won’t find the concept of daas Torah anywhere in shas or rishonim. Every generation has leaders who lead is in Halacha and Ruchnius matters. Science and medical issues are simply not their expertise and there is no gemora and no chazal in any medrash saying otherwise. What you are pushing is simply Reform Judaism and kfireh.
@manny Im sorry to hear that you have a very hard time understanding this concept…but theres something called emunas chachamim – tzadik gozer vahashem mikayem. That wasn’t said only for halacha…THATS SAID FOR EVERYTHING. The doctor can say from today till tomorrow with all of his “science” and expertise that someone will die and a tzadik with just one word can change that. Hashem is the one and only royfeh neeman. Now obviously that dosent mean that u shouldn’t listen to doctors and that we shouldn’t ask for their advice…but what it does mean is that the gadol makes the final decision on EVERYTHING.
Hmmm…@huge.. what a novel concept! Are you saying that if a tzadik says 2+2 is 7 then that’s the answer? So cool!!
Hey Honest (In your case an oxymoron)
There are Rabbonim who paskined that we SHOULD daven in a minyan with social distancing. Furthermore Gov. Cuomo just admitted that 66% of all patients admitted to hospitals were those WHO STAYED HOME AND DIDNT DAVEN WITH MINYANIM.Please ask your posek about that.Your abject hate for Jews is clear SHEME ON YOU!!!!!
@simeonaweber AGREED! Well said. Shame on u @honest @manny. Listen to the gedloim.
I do. In matters of Torah And for spiritual guidance.
@manny that’s exactly my point u are a kofer u must listen to them about EVERYTHING. TZADIK GOZER VAHAKODOSH BARUCH HU MIKAYEIM.
You don’t if you know what he’s saying is based on faulty Scientific information.
@manny 2honest That is straight kefirah. Whats wrong with you. We don’t judge or start saying our personal opinion on what gedolim say…u just listen. I see u have a very hard time understanding that. Bye bye
the following info. is from a nurse friend who works there… maimonides was, and is a dead sentence, hellhole
patients were definitely neglected by some nurses, and the environment of indifference is the norm there in general, if god forbid your loved one is in need of a hospital never ever go there, and we should demand a full investigation of all staff.
@manny @huge either u guys are reform Judaism or ur both just crazy. We don’t follow “science” – WE FOLLOW GEDOLIM. THATS VERY VERY SIMPLE.