NEW YORK (VINnews) — The following letter was submitted to VINnews by a an experienced nurse who works in a camp infirmary:
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I dont usually write letters to the editor, but after seeing an article about the push to open overnight camps this summer, I feel it is my obligation to write this.
I have been working in a frum overnight camp infirmary for many years. My family is desperate to go camp just as much as everyone else is.
This whole proposal that overnight camps can be run as “closed system” with everyone being tested and cleared for COVID-19 before entering sounds great on paper, but in reality the plans and protocols for each camp need to be vetted and address many issues such as the following:
– ER trips. Kids will be kids. Every trip, we have to send dozens of kids to the local ER (and sometimes to farther out hospitals if they need a higher level of care) – this involves sending the medical escort (and maybe a camp driver) out of the closed system and exposing them to a hospital setting. How will camps deal with such common scenarios?
– Camp support workers. Sometimes the people who clean the camp and work at the back of the kitchen get cut as well. We patch them up and sometimes they should go to the ER but dont want to because they dont have health insurance. If they dont have health insurance, they are probably not getting tested or checked properly, and out of fear of losing their jobs, would probably not report if they were in contact with someone who tested positive.
– Deliveries. Food deliveries and packages come daily. There is no way to verify that any of these people coming in are not carrying coronavirus.
All it takes is one person to bring it into the “closed system” and it C”V doesnt end well. I for one do not want to be on the front lines of an outbreak in a summer camp.
A Concerned Parent / Staff Member
Name withheld upon request (longtime nurse in well-known camp for years)
maskim
There is an answer to every issue. Just if you want.
The danger of kids staying home the entire summer is a bigger danger and risk than if a child has covid. 99% of the kids are immune to the virus coz most families had at least 1 member with covid. So the chance a kid should become sick is very small. The emotional health of the kids is now at risk.
The Kawasaki-like outbreak in children is scary
Written out of ignorance. We should not advocate for a complete closed system. The summer camps should be open on the premise that the risk to children in miniscule. We don’t close the camps every year because there is a risk of drowning. We accept a small risk. Under 21 risk from covid is less than risk of drowning. Kawasaki disease can easily be diagnosed and is not contagious. The camps should open with the understanding that there will be no of ground trips and staff do not go off grounds unless for essential purposes.
There is no credible dr who will say that this poses any undue risk to the children or surrounding community.
And what if a camper wakes up in his bunk in middle of the night not feeling well. Are we gonna leave it in the hands of a half-asleep 16 year old counselor to decide if he needs emergency attention.
The only way it could work is if every camp infirmary runs like a 24 hour ER with ventilators and other equipment. They must all have a full time doctor and respiratory therapist on staff.
They need to install emergency landlines in every bunkhouse and have night patrol on call to help with medical issues.
Relying on hatzalah alone is just stupid. The difference of a few minutes can be life or death sometimes.
Well I certainly hope this nurse will not be getting paid for sitting home and doing nothing. Worthless nurses. All they do is tell us to take an asprin. Lazy good for nothings.
I think that camps should be open and all precautions should be put in place to insure the kids have a safe and enjoyable summer the kids need camp to relax and grow they will mamish go nuts if they stay home the city is the worst place for kids to be in the summer its pikuach nefesh kids need camp it’s a necessity both for their ruchnius and their gashmius
If your really an RN then you know what a tabletop exercise is, all the questions can be solved, guess what we dealt with more complicated issues in the past.
PS no one is forcing to take this summer job
What about bullying and assaults that take place at summer camp?
Lets tackle each issue
ER trips: Set up a quantined room with covid tests. Camp driver and child will need to stay there for a few days to ensure they don’t test postive. ( I don’t think you need two weeks if you have tests, a few days should do it)
Camp support workers.: Correct every camp needs to get its own covid tests available for these kind of people as well as above.
Deliveries.: food delveiries/ truck drivers can’t get out of their truck.The truck pulls up to the kitchen and the kitchen staff bring out deliveries. People seem to say that food is not an issue for covid. Thats why every school is shtipping food and free pizzza pies and not cnecerned about food germs. I assume delievery is raw closed boxes.
Of course there is a treat and scare . Its not risk free. But with some mitigtaion risk is low and we need to move on
This is safek pikuach nefesh.
Can we leave this to people who are capable of deciding such weighty matters?
Or does everyone on VIN get to decide safek pikuach nefesh questions?
I’m not sure of the motive of the nurse, but she seems like she is afraid.
This so called nurse is using her occupation to spread merely an opinion at best or politics at least.
Opening or closing camps have nothing to do with being a nurse, I have a Pediatric Physician in my immediate family and they have no qualms whatsoever in opening camps, and they also desperately want to send their kids to camp.
Stop saying your personal opinion in a disguised professional opinion.
how selfish and ignorant are all of you that claim its best for kids to be in sleepaway camp. This letter is from a camp staff nurse, that has spent more time with kids in camp that needed medical attention. thats her JOB!! to all you parents out there that need a break, well no one said being a parent is easy. I myself have a full house bh. We have had the luxury of sending our kids out daily to school, and now due to this foreseen situation that has befallen us, we need to do our duty and take care of our kids!!! and it aint ez. But to take a chance to send off our kids cause parents can’t handle much more of them home?! Im sorry at times like this, our kids should not be sent in harms way. Hashem should watch over everyone and may we see the end of this diffucult times fast!!
“most of the data seems to indicate that children do not transmit the virus in significant numbers”.
American Center for Disease Control
@SK
None went to sleep %100 ok (no fever no cough
or heavy breathing or bad headaches) and woke up all of a sudden With life threatening symptoms most had minor symptoms for days and then it became bad,
I my self responded to numerous calls in the first 2 weeks when it hit our community, the answer was always it started a couple of days ago
You clearly don’t understand the gravity of kids staying home for the summer. Each and every summer there are risks involved and a GOOD capable, competent nurse understands how to deal with any situation. Last summer we dealt with the measles outbreak without closing down the camps. There’s always a risk factor that needs to be evaluated but more that that Hashem runs the world and once you do all in your power to keep everyone safe then it will work out. Being a nurse, is a job for people who know what they’re doing. The camps that will open iyh are going to follow the governement regulations and safety precaution to ensure everyone’s safety. We dont need medical staff to spew unnecessary doubt and chaos more than already spoken without having the background to support their unsolicited opinion. If you feel you have the achrayus and have the communities best interest in mind, please make sure you review all information before posting. Your naivete is far from chizuk. Its misguided. A camp that chooses to open administers responsibility and proves that they are prepared to follow all guidelines and face any scenarios, and with Hashem help all will be good. Hatzlocha.
Selfish parents will pay big bucks to be rid of their children, at any
cost. Yead, they ‘love’ their children. They just can’t tolerate
having to have them around the house –ALL YEAR–.
Anyone who is feeding into the NY/CA model of closing everything because of this “Mageifah” can crawl under their bed & follow direction from Mommy DeBlasio & Daddy Cuomo. The rest of the US & the world have opened up & is moving forward.
Great concerns, poor conclusions. Camp activities this summer should be toned down to reduce those concerns, increase safety and sensitivity to the current situation. Kitchen staff should be frum kids (even if it means a higher salaries) Meals can be toned down too. No trips outside of camp this year. Social distancing should be practiced when possible to reinforce this behavior when home. Dont throw out the baby with the bath water. Lets teach out kids how to deal and behave. Creative solutions not close it down.
I wish I were as smart as everyone else on VIN.
As a parent and grandparent of school age children I don’t know what we are going to do because we’d like to give the kids a break, there are risks involved, to them and to me and the rest of my family, especially my parents, and I am not a doctor.
There are now 13 sailors on a US Navy ship who have been infected for a second time so maybe there is no real immunity. I don’t know and experts agree they don’t know either.
How are you all so sure one way or the other, to the point that you are willing to take achrayis la’achar meah ve’esrim for the consequences of your advice?
I’m davening just to make the right decisions for my own family. Why would anyone offer eitzas to other people?
Sternberg-as well as every other summer camp operated while SARS was prevalent, no need for added hysterics.
Correct safety measures ( within reason) yes.
Hysteria no!
Unlike schools, camps are a luxury, not a necessity, and therefore not worth the risk. Let’s focus on the more important issue of getting schools open safely in the fall.
It’s easy to dismiss and say that COVID has passed, and if camps were open during SARS and measles, they should open up now. The problem is that there is so much unknown about the new MISC-C syndrome, so how can anyone make a safe assessment? As of this morning, the are 147 children in New York City with Kawasaki-like symptoms, and only 69 of them tested positive for antibodies or coronavirus. How can camps ensure that children are safe without knowing how they are vulnerable? I would love for my kids to go to camp, and they will be greatly disappointed if they can’t, but if the decision had to made today, I wouldn’t let them go. Hopefully in three or four weeks the picture will clearer and there will be less concern. For all those who are counting the number of cases and saying that there is minimal risk, keep in mind that ALL of these cases have popped up recently, so this is brand new. How in the world do you know what the risk is?
What’s the commotion ? Hatzolah says its hardly taken ONE patient to Hospital for Covid-19 in the last FOUR weeks … so in our community many or almost all homes have had a corona patient and the children have already been exposed to the Virus and most have had the virus (with or without symptoms) … 90% of people in our communities have already had the Virus …
Time to open all the Shuls, Yeshivas and Camps because our communities haven’t seen more than a handful of cases (here I mean new cases but hospitalizations in our communities is zero)
The only reason the mosdos and shuls are closed is POLITICS.The Rabbonim and Rishei Yeshivas need to figure a way to open in a way the Police will not stop them and we move on.
This wave of Corona at least for our communities is OVER. Lets get past it and let Tefila and Learning start.
Once Tefila and Learning start we will have Siyaata that Hashem will take care of us
The constant cries of, we do our hishtadlus and we all daven, we can leave the rest to Hashem, are just too foolish for words when we do our hishtadlus basically means we throw our arms up in the air and scream, Oy Eibishte, Oy Eibishte. Let’s not forget that the Eibishte sent this plague to the whole world and the Eibishte killed off all the Roshei Yeshivos and Rebbes. What does that tell you about the value of learning and Rebbes?
There is NO understanding about antibodies yet. NONE. HOW LONG DO THEY LAST? ARE THEY EQUAL IN ALL POST-INFECTED PEOPLE? Can you get REINFECTED? No MDs know. Try to think and not be a conformist.
i wonder if the camp would refund me if they decide to open and i dont want to send?
If antibodies do not impart immunity then a vaccine will not work either. If that is the case, do you plan to have the whole world locked down forever? Ridiculous. We might as well open up and take our chances.
The fact is that antibodies do impart immunity as they do for almost every other virus out there. This is proven by the fact that you have not heard of a single covid case in weeks in heimish areas. The “13 sailors” have another explanation. Have you heard of a single case of someone getting reinfected any dying?
On top of that, under 65 is very low risk of dying (about the same as driving 400 miles in a car, we drive to Canada all the time). The risk to under 20 is about the same as getting hit by a car (or less). These viruses tend to disappear of the summer months in any case.
Taking everything into account, the issue of schools and summer camps is purely a political one. The politicians have gotten drunk with power and they cant get themselves to un-clench their bite
I challenge anyone to make a medically valid case for not opening the camps. Taking into account the harm being done to children being stuck at home for months on end.
I will turn this around and say that the government should actually use emergency funds to subsidize the camps to make sure everyone gets a chance to go. As a safe method to building up herd immunity.
My choice, for my kid, is to keep them home. I appreciate the practical information in this article and I happen to agree with it. I wonder if camps that do choose to open will offer refunds to parents who are not willing to take the risk. Nobody in my family contracted the virus. For our situation we are opting out.
In many (most) camps, the rabbeim and other staff do not live in the camp. In many girls camps, the husbands of the female staff are away all week, coming up for shabbos. I’m curious how this was addressed by the proposal to open camps?
Kielu
Yeye I think you people waste ur time and thinking on all this nonsense
Camp is opening
I can’t wait