An Op-Ed on the Attack on Moetzes Gedolei Torah


    (By Rabbi Yair Hoffman for

    It is a sad reality that very often, lawyers win cases not on the evidence per se, but rather upon their ability to speak more passionately and more convincingly than the lawyer representing the other side.

    Recently, a Rav of a Flatbush shul delivered a deeply passionate resignation speech.  Listening to the speech strikes an emotional cord within us.  It was a plea for Tefilah, a plea to hear the sweet sounds of tinokos shel bais Raban. What yid with a heart listening to this powerful presentation would not empathize with this Rav? Who cannot be taken by his passion? His genuine pain?  The power of an emotional speech is most convincing.

    The problem is that the Rav’s appeal to the emotion, so powerful and so prevailing, leads us, perhaps, down a somewhat murky path.  It is a path that, intellectually, perhaps, sets off some warning bells in our head.  And yet, the sheer force of his passion, his earnestness of expression, his sincerity – draws us ever closer toward his thinking.  Is he, perhaps, right?

    It is hard to navigate – but there is something tugging within us.  Something we feel is not quite right.  Why does his speech set off warning bells?

    Because, we are the am Hashem, and we like to think that we cannot simply throw our Gedolim under the bus.

    Everyone knows that the Sar haTorah – Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlita paskened not to daven in shuls.  Should we listen to this Rav and view Rav Chaim as being misled by baal habatim that know nothing of Torah and Yiddishkeit?  And what of Rav Gershon Edelstein Shlita?  The warning bells are a bit too scary to also throw Rav Edelstein under the bus.

    Rav Meir Stern shlita has also closed every minyan.  His depth and gadlus and yiras shamayim are beyond reproach.  Is it wise to really take on such Gedolim?  There were numerous Admorim and Chassidisha Rabbonim who also self-isolated.  Indeed, the Novaminsker Rebbe himself zatzal came out strongly in not attending minyanim in shuls.

    Also, Rav Yeruchem Olshin Shlita – has been davening on his porch (b’minyan) for weeks and has not been in the shuls.  His seforim in learning and in mussar and machshavah have been described by the greatest Gedolim as a matanah for this dor.  How do we throw his hanhaga to the wind?

    And, finally, let’s not so easily dismiss the intelligence and love for Klal Yisroel of the entire Moetzes Gedolei Torah.  To describe Rav Dovid Feinstein and Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, the einei hador as too old is very very disturbing.  In this Rav’s worldview, we never should have closed the shuls or the chadarim.  The way he expresses it – the doctors do not know any more than he does. This also sets off warning bells.  Doctors are more experienced than we are.  The frum pediatricians just do not seem the type to hate the shuls and wish to close them.

    Another warning bell is the accusation levelled toward Agudath Israel of America that there was forgery in issuing their guidelines of how to gradually re-enter our shuls.  To accuse hundreds of well-meaning doctors who give their days and nights in selfless dedication and care for our friends and relatives who have died is just untenable.

    Yet another warning light is the possible Motzei Shem Rah on a Yeshiva graduate who is working in Washington.  Casting a slur of not putting on Tefillin upon this young man, merely because he arranged a phone call with the White House that convinced Rabbonim to shut the shuls,  is a bit disturbing.  Who knows how many people listening to the Rav’s tape now believe this assertion?

    The laws of our Torah are inviolable.  Even if you are the Vilna Gaon or Moshe Rabbeinu, you cannot violate halacha and randomly accuse someone that you do not even know.

    Another warning bell, is this attack on those who wish to minimize talking in shul.

    The Shulchan Aruch (OC 151:1) rules that it is forbidden to talk during shul – and one must avoid idle talk in shul even not during tefilah.  The Tosfos Yom Tov even wrote an entire mishebayrach for those who avoid it – how can a Rav come out against Shulchan Aruch?  The Aruch haShulchan (OC 124:11) writes that talking in shul is a chillul Hashem because it contributes to the perception that haovdei koachavim yoser zahirim mildaber bebais tiflus shelahem m’klal Yisroel bemikdash me’at shelanu.  With the utmost respect, by what right can one voice opinions that are counter to Shulchan Aruch and a cause of chillul hashem?  True, the Rav’s father is on the Moetzes Gedolei Torah, but that does not give anyone the right to so thoroughly negate the views of virtually all of Moetzes.  I have been told that the Rav’s words were misconstrued, but at least fulfill the idea of “Chachomim hizharu b’divreichem” if this is the case.

    Also, how can one go against so many Gedolei Torah who quote the mefurash Gemorah in Bava Kamma (60b) –  dever ba’ir kanes raglecha – if a plague is in the city – keep your feet indoors?  The pasuk that the Gemorah quotes in Shmos (12:22) explicity states: “Do not leave the entrance of your homes.”

    The Ramah in the Darchei Moshe (116:5) says that even though it says not to leave the home – running away is still preferable.  It does not say that the zchus of keeping the minyanim running will save us.

    Someone had actually remarked to me that the death rate of COVID-19 does not rise to the level of Dever ba’ir.  I cannot believe that any one that truly values life would say such a thing.  The death rate locally is about .45%.  There has been too much pain and suffering to dignify this with a response.

    The Rav has a remarkable ko’ach hadibbur. He is also clearly passionate about what we all hold dear.  But even if one disagrees with these Gedolim, Roshei Yeshiva, Admorim, and Rabbonim, and the doctors’ opinions as well – let’s not accuse them of rishus.   Let us not throw around the word “stupid” so loosely.  Divrei chachomim b’nachas nishmayin.  It would seem, that a heart-felt and sincere apology is in order.

    [An earlier version of this article incorrectly stated that some of the aforementioned Gedolim did not daven b’minyan, when in fact, they just did not daven within the shuls.  The author regrets the error.]

    The author can be reached at [email protected]

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    1. Rabbi Frankel’s response was to the bullying by Billet & Ditchik. Nothing more nothing less. He was upset that the Agudah was taking it on the chin from the Modern Orthodox without even putting up a fight.

    2. Those of us (B”H”) who are not in sync with the daily happenings in NY are somewhat in the fog with regard to the background of Rav Hoffman article. From the surface it looks like another “My Gadol Your Gadol” brawl. Just one question – who is the speaker in the 55 minute audio? Is this the “Rav in Flatbush”?

    3. Is the the only Rabbis on the board? And if not where are the other signatures? I thought there were 9 numbers 1 passed away makes it 8 if you only have 3 signatures means that the majority is not with this letter just asking

    4. Maybe the kehilla should be thankful that the new Gadol Hador quit instead of having to “Not renew his contract”.
      He could of resigned without his now infamous Droosheh. It would of been even a bigger kidish hashem. 1. His agenda. 2. That he kept quiet (that alone is a great kidish hashem).

    5. Rabbi Hoffman is completely wrong.And Rabbi Frankel is all the way right.

      Most Chasiddic Rebbes and Litivis Rosh Yeshivas were mislead about this whole Shull closing thing.
      The Shulls were closed by huge pressure from knockers and so called Askonim.

      The big Goan Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzenski of Vilna was once asked to join a certain organization and he refused. Stating organizations are not led by Rabbonim but it is led by Bala Batim without a Das Torah.

      There were many Shulls in Boro Park,Williamsburg,Monsey and Monroe etc that stayed open the entire time with the guidelines and they did not give in to the pressure.

      Rabbi Hoffman,You stated a while back that Avi Berkowitz is a hero like someone who rescued many Jews at the Holocaust. All we know is that he had a hand in closing down Shulls for Yidden not to be able to Daven.

      • @maven U ARE COMPLETELY WRONG AND R HOFFMAN IS COMPLETELY RIGHT. There is absolutely no makom to come out publicly against all of our gedolim. Shame on frankel

        • @maven go listen to the speech before u start spewing all ur garbage. Yes indeed frankel has some valid points – but the way he said it was very deisrespectful and unacceptable. All the best

        • Sorry, but the Gedolim put their name on the Agudah – it has their haskama. That’s enough for me. You seem to know more then the Gedolim. Please let us know who you are because maybe you are an up and coming godol and we’d love to get brochos from you and to continue to hear your proven daas torah…

    6. Mr frankel should be ashamed of himself. How dare u put down gedolim like that – I don’t care what ur agenda is. I would bury myself alive if i were him.

    7. @flatbushyid this is not a “Flatbush issue”…this is a matter of someone getting up and speaking wrongly on the gedolim. Yes there are different opinions out there…but in this matter r chaim kanievsky, r gershon edelstien, r Shmuel kamenetzky, r dovid Feinstein, r aaron Feldman, r malkiel Kotler, r elya brudny, and many more were ALL on the same page. That’s all of our gedolim. How dare someone get up publicly and speak out against them? He should bury himself alive

    8. Tell me his point from today till tomorrow (and I happen to agree with his point)…But its completely wrong to come out the way he came out and to put down the gedolim like that.

      • Agree 1000% with you. His style was unhinged and very wrong. But I believe he was speaking from a point of frustration. That doesn’t make it right. We are better then the president who tweets whenever he is mad. And the message is a correct and true message. The delivery was bad and sad

    9. R chaim soloveitchik closed down all the shuls and yeshivas when there was a mageifah in his town. Are u gonna start bashing him too?? Our gedolim have decided to close shuls/yeshivos. Final – that is what we do that is how we proceed. We follow our gedolim. Now to come out with a simple mussar vort that we shouldn’t be happy that shuls are closed and that we should want to go back is perfectly fine…BUT TO PUT DOWN GEDOLIM AND SAY THEYRE WRONG IS COMPLETELY INSANE. HE SHOULD BURY HIMSELF ALIVE.

    10. Interesting that this speech comes now when it appears that the peak is behind us and the panic and confusion
      has subsided . To second guess religions or political leaders, for decisions that were and are being made in times of extreme uncertainty is not cool . It was a very plausible possibility that New York could have been like Italy where many people needlessly died because the healthcare system was overwhelmed .

      Even if some clearheaded community leaders objectively feel that the State rules are more stringent than needed, the way to deal with that is through shtadlanus not by defying authorities and the will and sensibilities of the majority of citizens who elected them .

      Perhaps the Rav’s pain is because he perceived his Kehilla as indifferent and apathetic.
      Well, people can be inspired to the true beauty of yiddishkeit tefilla.. you cannot bully them into it .

      • the way to deal with that is through shtadlanus not by defying authorities and the will and sensibilities of the majority of citizens who elected them .

        No necessailry. If its harming our religon our essence and the people are slow to do shatdlans we need to rise up and do what”s right even if its against it. You can’t “respect” the people’s decison when its critical like this

        • So far it does not appear that anyone is out to “harm our religion “.

          So far it appears that decisions are being made in good faith , on the best advice of experts and in the long term interest of the state and it citizens . Did you study the patterns of the Spanish flu ? The second wave ? The different ways cities responded to out and the subsequent outcome ?

          In hindsight some decisions will turn out to have been warranted and some not , but that’s not the point .

          The leaders of the state need to call the shots for good or for bad .

          Thankfully, according to the ground rules in this country you cannot be persecuted for your religious beliefs and practices .

          This does not mean you religious practice to congregate indoors is more important than everyone else’s practices to congregate in restaurants , bars , theaters , stadiums. Your values are important but not more important than other peoples values .

          We are all in this together . If it is someones dearly held belief to dig a hole in the bottom of a ship does society have to tolerate it ?

          • Oh don;t take my words out of context. i am not saying they are out to harm us. But at the end of the day they are “harming us”. even not intended. thats why we need to stand up and fight and ignore it.

            Yes i Happen to study the spanish flu and there are 100 differences. One cannot dictate his life because of some flu 100 years ago? Its too much of an outlier. base don the spanish flu, you’d need to lock us up for years (for sure two years). Because who says the just luike the spnaish flu resurged once again, this won’t resurge a second time the following winter? Its endless. You need to implenet a mitgation startegy lest there is an outbreak but you cannot lock people up before hand. Thats retarded and too much unknown.

            yes my reigon is the right one and is more important than everyone else. i will not fall for OCD.

            I heard this we are all in this together nonsense. Its baloney. There is no “this”. I do not have to be in “this” togteher and destory my religon because you decided to fear monger. Its over. No more covid.

          • @Ben Are you insane?! My values are not more important than other people’s values?! Then what exactly makes them ‘values’?? Is your Judaism a gamble, a mere preference, or do you actually believe in your values?
            It is a fitting time indeed to quote something I heard from Rav Pinchas a couple of years ago: “Respect for everything is respect for nothing.”

            • Basically, if you think about what you actually said, you are arguing against the religious freedoms we have in the US.

    11. I honestly feel bad for this r Frankel. It seems that he honestly had good intensions and was trying to bring out his point to its fullest capacity. And his point is a great point. He just got caught up in his emotions and said a bunch of things that he shouldn’t of and he prob regrets that. And as well it was just way too radical the way hes saying everything. He should put out an apology and just restate his points like a mentsh and without throwing in random garbage for no reason. All the best

      • Indeed, knowing Rav Pinchas I can personally vouch for his intentions. And yes, he probably would have spoken differently had he known it would go viral. But then again, had he spoken differently would it have gone viral at all?
        Ideally, one very wise person would be in charge of everything, and his approach would be levelheaded and balanced. But this is not the case, and the only way to balance out the extremism on the other side is extremism.
        The fact is, somebody had to say something, and nobody else did. I am privileged that the one who brought this topic to the forefront is someone I know and respect.

        • Sorry with the best of intentions he still should have kept away from talking against Rabbonim. If they signed then assume they read and heard what was told to them.

      • Agree with Huge. Probably 90% couldbhve been said without slandering Rabbonim older than he. There is a proper knovodige way to do things and he siding didn’t do it.

    12. at no point did rav frankel say reb shmuel & reb dovid shlita are senile . what he said was that a draft with numerous details was emailed to the gedolim at midnight for a meeting the next morning . is that true ? even if it is , the moetzes allowed for a sub committee of rabonim to put together these recommendations aside from one relativly unknown name in chicago who else was on the committee.
      the point about avi weinstock was one of chad gadya… the docs called weinstock … who called kushner… who called kestenbaum… who called the rebbes…

    13. Interesting I wrote a post on ywn and lakewood scoop questioning why only 3 out 8 moetzes members signed and why R Yair would say that R Frankel said that The Rabbonim are senile when in fact all he questioned was the choice of making a meeting for elderly poskim at midnight. Let’s see if vin will post this unlike the other sites

    14. RABBI HOFFMAN is 100% correct and this needs to be said because it went public BUT……..
      I think we missed the main point of the speech. He said, don’t pick and choose your rabbonim. That has been the biggest issue during this entire corona virus. We shop around for rabbonim to fit our personal emotions. The emotions of Dr’s and us laymen are not in sync with logical halacha and poskim. My rov told us when to start minyanim and when to stop minyanim. If you are part of klal yisroel. you have had shailos in life. Ask yourself this: WHO IS YOUR ROV?!?!?! Don’t have one? Don’t conveniently throw others that do have rabbonim under the bus because YOU farkrumte Daas BaalHabayis decided that way.

      • I hve been saying this is the problem since the beginning of the magafa. Many in our community don’t have a real rov or moreh derech to guide them in a time like this. They daven in one shul for shachris another for mincha a third for marriv Shabbos they daven in a local shtible. These people do what they want. I don’t blame them. If my rov wouldn’t have said clearly stay home pekuach nefesh is doche tifilas bisibur I probably also may have looked for a minyon to daven with.

    15. The only reason I’m commenting on this news item is because 2 days I used very strong language in my comments against a yeshiva who was caught with students in the yeshiva. A number of commentators condemned my comments and suggested I listen to Rabbi Frankel’s speech. I did not listen to his speech and I don’t want to come across like I’m arguing with him. My views reflect the teachings of my rov. My rov was from the first who closed his school and his yeshiva. In a pre pesach letter, he said if even one life is saved because we closed the shuls then its worth it. Recently he said he needs two criteria to open. One that it follows the government guidelines and two it shouldn’t cause a chillul Hashem. He also spoke constantly about being careful with even safek pikuach nefesh. I live on a typical block in Boro Park. Before Pesach when the magafa was at his peak I saw people going to shul with talis and / tefilin. Many people on my block had married children over on Yom Tov. At the beginning I said many in our community don’t have internet, don’t listen to the radio, much of what they know is hearsay. For many especially buchrim this is still true. As time went on I realized a second even bigger problem. Many in our community don’t have a real rov or moreh derech to guide them in a time like this. They daven in one shul for shachris another for mincha a third for marriv Shabbos they daven in a local shtible. These people do what they want. I don’t blame them. If my rov wouldn’t have said clearly stay home pekuach nefesh is doche tifilas bisibur I probably also may have looked for a minyon to daven with. The fact is the government made these rules for our safety. Even if you argue they are ridiculous rules and its time to open or you say look at people in Central Park. You may be right but at the end of the day it causes a chillul Hashem if we don’t listen. We also have to realize that if this was a gezars shmad you would be right we must fight like the chashmonoim, but its not not a gezaras shmad we there must adhere to the guidelines as much as possible.

    16. I think whatever was said in that recording was said without realizing that the greater majority of frum yidden were home because they understood the risk and cared for their safety. A minority within the community isn’t big on wearing masks and probably feel like this rov. We weren’t locked out of the shuls by some evil phone call…

    17. We weren’t locked out of the shuls by some evil phone call…we stood he.for our safety. If we would have been worthy the message to close the shuls would have come earlier. What is to discuss????

      • you are correct that in the more modern neighborhoods most people “CHOSE ” to stay home and those that CLOSED FIRST will OPEN LAST . is it possible that we partially lost our shemira & zechus kiyum eause we closed the shuls , isnt that where a yid ran when he was in trouble. what do u make of reb chaim line sakana chamura harbeh yoser min corona. as rav wolson shlita whos shul stayed open compared it to the fish listening to the fox to come out of the water because its safer on shore ” in the water you can get hooked “

    18. The nerve and chutzpah of VIn news to delete comments it doesn’t like. Shame on you editor for supressing views. Only the ones you like you print ? beautiful

    19. “An earlier version of this article incorrectly stated that some of the aforementioned Gedolim did not daven b’minyan, when in fact, they just did not daven within the shuls. The author regrets the error.”
      This is exactly the point. Rabbi Frankel’s words suddenly it’s an aveirah to daven with a minyan and mesirah became a mitzvah.
      This was the big psak halacha being pushed. When in fact we now see that it was not true. This he said is due to being highly connected via technology.
      This article seems very one sided.
      He did not attack the moetzes. He called out the Agudah for what it is, a political group.
      Maybe he got a little carried away. But to me it seemed like he was doing it leshem shomayim.

    20. Rabbi frankel was my rebbe in yeshivah and although he sometimes loses his cool the point he is making is that at this time when there are no hatzalah calls or for that matter any new cases in the Flatbush area why are they not taking action just like in every other Jewish community

      • Yes correct . This is the point people miss and he did lose his cool.

        1) Many had no problem going on flights to Orlando with no social distance, but shul and cheder is a danger?
        2) Starting from say Lag Bomer why didn’t anyone call him at least to say lets make a “porch minyan at least?
        3) Why are we so content with cheder and davenng at home? For thousands of years beis hkenses and kids going to cheder was our whole essence. We spend all of our money on chinuch. Yet we are ok with kids roaming the streets and playing in garbage dumps via no social distance, but cheder in a backyard or in clusters is dangerous?
        4) Why isn’t Aguda flexing its muscles now? We have Trump on our side. Trump to reopened shuls today why aren’t we fightintg tooth and nail for schools? Where are our leaders? Yes its bonifed safe for our kids. Now is the time to fight for at least the fall. reopne now even for a week so they get used to it. Plus a week of torah is so valuable.

        Why is this all not bothering us? Did anyone even call their rav about their childs chinuch?

    21. Rabbi Hoffman is to kind in his treatment of this person’s speech. Among the many falsehoods that Pinchos Frankel asserted was that no one died from going to shul. It is abundantly clear from the data in the frum communities that the men were the first infected. It’s not because they were having knitting parties that caused the spread. VeHamavin Yavin. Further, there were rabbonim who kept their shuls open for business as usual, and they are no longer with us due to the negef. In fact, one of those shuls was the one from which Dr. Ditchek was physically removed when he tried to be mocheh the blatant disregard for human life. There was one mesifta that remained open in Lakewood against the law. The police shut it down and arranged for all the bachurim to get home. Within days, the two men running that mesifta were in the ICU. One had to have a name added. Pinchos Frankel may mean well, but he is negligently ignorant of the facts on the ground. Rosho magia hashomayima aval aino mutzav artzah. Hacol yavi lamishpat, Al hatov ve’al ha’ra.

      • Among the many falsehoods that Pinchos Frankel asserted was that no one died from going to shul. It is abundantly clear from the data in the frum communities that the men were the first infected.

        Sir you misconstrued Rabbi Frankel’s point. (Classic fake news style). Of course men died and got sick from “shul”. But the facts and data PROVE that anyone who went to a “social distant” shul or porch minyan did not die. It really started to grow pesach yet the numbers just went more down. In other words of course we need to take care of our health. And when we did not know better and just went to shul with no distancing we got hurt and died. But those that went to minyan and abided by all safety regulations did not get sick. This is more than proven.

        “and they are no longer with us due to the negef. In fact, one of those shuls was the one from which Dr. Ditchek was physically removed when he tried to be mocheh the blatant disregard for human life.”

        That shul whom Rabbi Frankel’s brother is the ruv, its not confirmed that the reba died from covid. He was ill and 95 yrs old. Secondly, the reba was not near others and was distanced.

        Re the mesifta, again they did not social distance. Rabbi Frankel’s point was noone who atteneded a social distant minyan got hurt. At minimum attend an outdoor minyan? Noone cried about no shul either.

        • Do you actually have facts and data that “PROVE” that anyone who went to a “social distant” shul or porch minyan did not die? I doubt it.

      • Texas Joe, just to be clear. The “shul that De Ditchek was removed from” is today Rabbi Frankel’s brother’s shul. His brother kept the shul open and yes the Rebbe Zt”l passed away, but not from Covid as he never came down to the shul during that time. Hebjadn’r Been well for a long time.

      • They should never have closed the shuls.

        Correct leave it open but enforce tough social distant and cleanliess guidelines. Thats what the rav wanted. At least daven outdoors

    22. It is sad, really sad. At the beginning of this magafa, right after Purim I thought, everyone is being affected by this, hopefully, we can all come together and do a collective teshuva. Hopefully Moshiach can come. Doctors and rabbonim said Pekuach nefesh is doche teffilas besibur. They said to stay home for Pesach. Sadly there were those that said we are smarter then the doctors, we will do what we want. This attitude only emboldened them and now they are treating the government’s actions as a gezaras shmad. These people say, we must open the yeshivos and shuls even if it causes a chilul Hashem. So sad, whether you think the guidelines are overkill or ridiculous, they were put in place for our safety. Even a sofek pekuach nefesh is doche Shabbos. We already see in Eretz Yisroel where yeshivos opened this week staff and children getting sick again. This Kawasaki virus has been affecting children I’ll leave it to the professionals to decide how to open yeshivos before we know how this new virus affects the children or adults., but sadly too many do what they want.

      • Even a sofek pekuach nefesh is doche Shabbos

        When the illness is at flu or lower levels than that its not the geder of a safek. Furthermore, shabbos is only docheh for safek pikkuch nefesh once the person is sick. You are in fcat not allowed to be docheh shabbos so that people don’t “become sick”. Its a very huge differnece.

        We already see in Eretz Yisroel where yeshivos opened this week staff and children getting sick again.
        No such thing . please provide a link to that story. I tried reasrching and cannot find that stroy anyhwere. Its fake news. Here is what we do know, the risk to kids are very very low and lower than the flu. base don the data we have which studied cases in Iceland and france kids do NOT spread Covid, Kahwaski is not catchy and very minimal. “Emily Oster, economics professor at Brown University, author of several books and creator of the website COVID-Explained” On NPR.

        The mere fact that israel considered schools Phase 1.0 just speak volumes. Noone is saying its an intentional gezras shamd but even if its unintentional, its incumbent on us to fight the govt. Yes they mean our safety and I don’t say its a hoax. But its an overreach and proven by many across all landscapes that its unnecessary. (Part of it is the lack of revelation of our needs and that we can’t home school like goyim). And when our future is at stake we need to fight this and yes resist. Its a kiddush hashem to open schools at this point and disregard the govt. Torah first

        • Try not to use “fake news” in all your comments. You use them often. Its the modern day “I know what you are”. It only hurts your arguments and counterarguments of which you have many…

        • R Yisoriel Salanter and R Chaim Brisker clearly argued with you saying that to stop someone from getting sick is pikuach nefesh

          PS you are also an am haretz regarding hilchos shaas hashmad

    23. Where was R Frankel Erev Pesach? He should’ve made his speech at that time stating that his shul must go on as usual. It’s easy to shry after the dust has settled and play Monday morning quarterback.
      R Frankel says things I can imagine hearing from the Munkatcher Rav circa1920. One has to be on that high level to say some of the things he said.

      If his speech in its entirety would be transcribed and available to read on paper, many of his points would be seen for what they were-ridiculous. It’s his emotion that captivates us as Jews who are so attracted to feeding to our guilty consequences.
      His entire introduction with the talk about money and getting paid and how much etc is unbecoming.
      I applaud Rabbi Hoffman for taking the high road in his tempered, respecful response.

      The bottom line is that R Frankel is right. He is not a good fit for a moderate chareidi Flatbush kehilla. Perhaps he should start a new community in upstate New York somewhere.

      • Exactly. His derech may have worked in Europe 80 years ago, or currently in other communities. But times have changed and that type of talk just doesn’t work anymore in our communities. L’hepch- it is uncalled for has the opposite effect.

      • Where was R Frankel Erev Pesach?

        Correct but I think his main point is, where is everyone now? Now that coivd is over. No new cases in a month. Why aren’t we fighting this more? Why are we now (or a week ago) Not concerned about reopneing cheder when our kids don’t social distance anyhow? “Are we stupid” Do we need see the need?

    24. How insensitive can one be to bemoan the measures that were taken solely to save lives. There are currently covid cholim still in icu hanging onto life by a thread…my friend is sitting Shiva for his relatively young father, a covid victim, as I write!
      Even if his claims are true, is now the time to so publicly discount this mageifa and the extreme measures we took.
      I would think that there are other issues in his kehilla that are prevelant all year round that are more worthy of his harsh rebuke than a matter of pikuach nefesh that G-d afflictedon the world in a once in a 100 years plague

    25. There seems to be a misconception going on on here nobody thinks that gedolim are senile but when statements come out of “bshem” gedolim with no verification (a signature is a copy paste) I personally dont believe a thing these askskanim put out unless I hear it from my posek and just to prove that this whole gadol thing is a hoax I asked my dr and posek and they said I should go to minyan given my circumstances despite a letter signed by an organization that my posek is one of the main haposkim for so yes the askanim are like dejozo hungery for power and kavod (not all but some amd enough that I donot believe any unless i know otherwise)

    26. See Agudahs Yisroel statement,
      They use terms like “guidance” and “advised” no mention of absolute psak, rule or takana.
      The governor of NY is now allowing religious gatherings with restrictions which now brings into question the very definition of whether the virus is still to be classified as a “mageifa” in NY according to the gemara. We can be dan lkaf zechus here too.
      Thank you R’ Hoffman for bringing up the real mageifa of moitzi shem ra & loshon hora.
      The medrash rabbah in parshas metzora says that HKB’H baal harachamim brings tzoraas – the mageifa of loshon hora- first on a persons home, if he doesn’t do tshuva then it comes to his clothing and only after that, if he still didn’t do teshuva it comes on to the person himself. Chazal teach us that a mageifa comes to the world on account of the yiddin. In all of history i don’t believe that there has been such a massive spread of loshon hora like there is today through our various social media channels. We’ve been kicked out of our collective “Homes”. This is literally a bas kol meshamaim. I don’t understand how G-D could have made this any clearer. It’s enough we can’t control ourselves from speaking loshon hora. Let’s at least be makabil not to spread it on social media.

    27. The picture of article is misleading. Don’t confuse moetzes of Agudah EY with moetzes of Agudah US.
      This simple misleading point is a major cue of who is truthfully right and who is wrong.

      No further comments. Not because there is none. Rather because of censorship reasons.

      The truth will prevail.

      The choice is yours (ours) to choose truth over hysteria and chaos.

    28. The Moetezs. Rely on information given to them by. Hungry non informed machers. Let the medical community make the decisions. Time for new leadership with honest non political agendas

    29. The above comments prove again the Sinas chinom which is still rampant in our community
      Just for the record Yochid Verabim Halocho Krabim

      Shame on all of you comment posters

      • It’s amazing to see thar Mr. Hoffman thinks that harav Frankel is wrong while he himself write certain things about certain gedolim being ati vaxxers….
        My educated guess is that Mr. Hoffman valuess the דעת תורא of an RN more then he values the שולחן ערוך.

        • His reasoning is consistent if you actually listen to what he said and understood the halacha.

          As an aside there is no one who is a “Daas Torah” and it is clear that learning all day and neglecting science did not help anyone understand how a virus works. So when it comes to medical issues, we should maybe rely on what the Torah and Halacha teaches us that Doctors are the messengers for that and they have the permission to heal, not Rabbis.


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